Digging Clay

/ Digging Clay #1  

ryer

Bronze Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
75
Location
Nearest town:Poteet,TX
Tractor
Kubota B26 now L39
Hello guys...new to board. I live in South Texas...sandy loam type soil with a clay hardpan. I dig a lot of water ways and ponds on my property using rental equipment such as Bobcat 763 skid loader and a Case backhoe (to dig the clay to line the ponds). This clay is as hard as concrete. I am considering purchasing a Kubota B26 TLB for this purpose as well as hundreds of tree stump removals (live and post oak), a 1/2 mile sandy road to grate and to clear a lot of brush. I have 37 acres...limited budget...would this tractor possibly fit the bill? Thanks for any input.
 
/ Digging Clay #2  
Ryer, I live in Northern Va, and have a lot of clay and large rocks in my area. I bought my BX24 for driveway maint (250 ft) and found I love to dig too:). If I hit a rock I just dig around it and pull it out. However I guess It depends how big you want your ponds to be. If your clay is as hard as concrete just get some explosives. Who doesn't like to dig and blow stuff up?
I
 
/ Digging Clay #3  
The Bobcat will beat the TLB26 hands down for digging, it is heavier and has more hydraulics.

The B26 will do it but it will be slower. Digging with the FEL on the b26 won't be like on the Bobcat, it is more difficult on the tractor, I found a Box blade to work best then use the FEL to pick up spoils.

Digging up the oak trees won't be too bad as long as they are not too large, the bigger they are the longer they will take.
 
/ Digging Clay #4  
wushaw said:
The Bobcat will beat the TLB26 hands down for digging, it is heavier and has more hydraulics.

I've never used a Bobcat but the visibility must be fantastic compared with a normal tractor. That would make digging so much easier. And the tight handling of the skid steer would make it so much faster. My very rough guess is that a skid steer would dig at least 4 times faster than a standard tractor with a bucket. Maybe even 10 times faster! If digging is going to be a major part of your bucket work then you should have a test drive first.
 
/ Digging Clay #5  
I am sure the B26 would perform well and is a good choice and value for this type of work but if you want to complete these tasks more efficiently you may want to consider the L39. This TLB is stronger and only about 6K more in cost.
 
/ Digging Clay #6  
Wish I had some that clay for my ponds, Im down in Orange Grove,tx and its just about impossible to hold water in the ponds down here. yep even tried Bentonite had bought a semi tractor trailer load 25tons worth and it slowed it down alot but the water just leaks down about a inch every week or so. Before it was a 2 inches about every 4 or 5 days
I traded in my L3400 and got me a L4400 man what a difference. Im glad I made the change.
 
/ Digging Clay #7  
You may want to look for a used industrial TLB. 6x the machine for the same price (used). For the price of a new B26 TLB you can get a 8-10 year old Case 580 or similar. Be much easier digging!

jb
 
/ Digging Clay
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Thanks for the input guys. I have a test drive with the B26 scheduled this week. Jon Bud, I used the Case 580 (construction king) to dig the bulk of the clay in the pond. It was the only machine that would dig deep into the clay but for what I have left know, it is way too big of a machine. I have thousands of oaks trees to maneuver through and you cannot turn that machine. The Bobcat dug great when I got down to the hardpan. It was like driving on cement and I could scoop the sand and haul it off. However, the Bobcat on top of the sand got stuck almost instantly and was very unstable. I now have 2 acres of water, so that's the bulk of the pond digging, but for cleaning out the ponds, maintaining the creek waterways, the road grating and some small expansion of the pond is what I am looking for now. I even believe the B26 is too large to fit where I need to go now without heavy timber clearing...which I try to avoid. Will let you know. Thanks again.
 
/ Digging Clay #9  
I don't blame ya on trying to avoid any timber removal, it takes forever for any of the Oaks in your area to get to maturity.
 
/ Digging Clay
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Wushaw,
Do you have post oak or live oak in your area? I have included a Google Earth shot of my property. All the water ponds and creeks were man made. It has taken me a number of years. I think you can see my dilemma with all the oak trees and how heavily forested the land is. As you can imagine, it is a wildlife hot spot. I have left many submerged stumps for fish cover. This pond is loaded with fish but attempting to maintain the depth of the pond with all the foilage falling into the water and building up muck on the bottom, is a major problem. I have the ability to pump water from one section of water to another by placing sand bags in certain areas and draining the area. This is where I think a tractor will come in handy scooping out the muck after it dries.
 

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/ Digging Clay #11  
I don't blame ya on trying to avoid any timber removal, it takes forever for any of the Oaks in your area to get to maturity.
 
/ Digging Clay #12  
For a long time I have debated buying a Woods BH6000 backhoe for my BX2200 because of my doubts as to whether it could dig in the Duripan I have. Duripan is among the hardest of hardpans. The clay had hundreds of thousands of years for the flat particles to settle and stratify. This was followed by being covered with volcanic ash and/or obsidian, and then hundreds of thousands more years for silicon dioxide and silica sesquioxide to leach into the clay and cement it into a water impermeable lithified substance. When the clay topsoil is removed and the Duripan exposed, handtools like an adz (pointed end of what we call a pick-axe) simply bounce off of it, even if water has been sitting atop it in a depression for days.

This week, TBN member BX23Barry, who lives close to me, brought his BX23 over for a test dig in some exposed pan on my property. The teeth on the 12" bucket would hang up and stop, but after a couple of seconds of building hydraulic pressure, the crystalline structure would slowly buckle and the bh was able to dig. I was astounded and ecstatic! It is currently our rainy season. The clay topsoil is supersaturated, and we found the very slightest trace of dampness in the pan tailings. Barry says that in our dry summer, he can dig, but it is very slow going, scratching through the Duripan an inch or so at a time.

There have been reports by other TBN members of a BX being able to dig in Caliche, a hardpan where clay is cemented by leaching of calcium carbonate, and TBN member Ultrarunner reports that his BX23 digs successfully in the serpentine rock of the Oakland Hills.

Though plain clay compacted by vehicles can form a Fragipan, that material and Claypan (a dense and compacted, though not cemented, clay based subsoil), as well as just plain dry clay are not as hard as Hardpans like Duripan, Caliche, and Ironpan (clay cemented by iron oxide). Do you know which, of all these types of pan, you actually have? They do differ in degrees of hardness. In any case, however, a B26 is a commercial grade tractor with far higher hydraulic pressure than a BX. If a BX will dig in these mineral cemented hardpans that are almost as hard as concrete, a B26 will easily dig in the them as well. You should not have to worry about that at all.

I just don't know how much trouble your oak roots might be. If this did turn out to be a problem, Woods, Bobcat, and Bro-Tek make single shank ripper teeth that can be placed at the end of your bh arm (remove bucket and emplace ripper). These might work pretty well to rip through any bigger roots. I don't know who makes them, but on big commercial excavators, I have seen the bucket replaced with a blade that faces off against a flat surfaced thumb to make something like a Godzilla sized bolt cutter/cable shears. I have no idea whether something like that is available for utility sized tractor backhoes or not. Speaking of thumbs, once a stump is cut free, a standard thumb would be very valuable for grasping the stump and extracting it from the hole. Instead of pulling all the oak stumps, what about just grinding them off with a stump grinder?

I hope this has helped.

Finally, a big thank you to BX23Barry. Because he proved that the bh can dig in this pan, the CFO at my house approved the funding for a Woods BH6000. It is my both Christmas and birthday present for the next 20 years!! :D :D :D
 
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/ Digging Clay
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Tested the Kubota TLB B26...nice tractor just too much money for me! BX24 too small. I have narrowed my selection down to two different tractors...the Kubota L2800 HST with loader and Woods BH70-X backhoe for $22,700 or the Kioti LK30 TLB with backhoe and loader gear drive for $20,800. The Kubota dealer is a lot closer and will deliver (my truck will not tow either one of these tractors). The Kioti will not deliver and is twice as far away. The Kioti is a heavier TLB machine. The Kubota has better lifting statistics but is more or less a tractor with added loader and backhoe? For a lot of heavy digging in the clay and sand...which one do you guys think is the better choice? I am leaning Kubota slightly because of parts and repairs. What do you guys think...I am torn between the two. Thanks!
 
/ Digging Clay #14  
Well I have the L2800HST and BH75 Kubota backhoe. The BH has dug up many stumps and other chores.
I have black gumbo, clay and sandy loam on my place and it digs with ease in all these soils, I don't have any rocks to worry about.

It is not going to be a fast at what the B26 will be since you have to get off the tractor to get on the BH to work where on the B26 all ya gotta do is swivel the seat and turn around.
 
/ Digging Clay
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Thanks WUSHAW...I am leaning heavily towards the Kubota, just not sure exactly which model yet. Either the 2800, 3400, or B26 (maybe). Thanks for the information. Ryer:)
 
/ Digging Clay #16  
Ya know the only difference between the L2800/3400 is 5hp, so between them two your choice is pretty simple.

I didn't know of the L3400 at the time I purchased my L2800, I just told my salesman what I needed and what my monthly payments needed to be, I haven't had any problems with power, I have ran out of traction.

Although if given the choice of more hp in the same frame size I would chose more hp even if I didn't need it.
 
/ Digging Clay
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Hey Wushaw...I am trying to make a deal on this machine. Do you think it will dig my clay? :)
 

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/ Digging Clay #19  
I wonder how much the oil and filters would cost for the 50hr. service!!!:eek:
 
/ Digging Clay #20  
Here is Google shot of my place, the one big pond if you look to the left that is a 40ft conex so to give you some reference of the size of it, though this shot must be about 2yrs old not sure when they are going to update this area.
 

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