Curved VS Straight Loaders: PHOTOS

[Henro]

I can't help but fall back a pillow of common sense, which keeps whispering in my ear:

"Bob's photos hardly indicate the curved hood and loader arms to be inferior. Curved+curved has to be better for visibility than square+square. It's really a matter of how much, not if..."

Sure seems like the improved visibility is reality, not illusion. This series of photos may encourage someone to try both types before buying which suits him the best personally.

This is a good thing and when you think about it, few threads have laid out comparisons so well.

Mostly we use words, and not the "see for yourself" approach.

It would be neat to see a photo comparison between a MMM and RFM, especially around obstacles, like trees and next to fences, pond edges and so on.

Would take more time than most of us would have available to produce such a thing.

Kudos to Bob for putting this thread together. It certainly took more of his time that one might think. No doubt it will be very informative to future tractor buyers.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> It would be neat to see a photo comparison between a MMM and RFM, especially around obstacles, like trees and next to fences, pond edges and so on.
</font>

HENRO I JUST SOLD MY RFM THIS SUMMER!!! NOW I ONLY HAVE A MMM. I guess you'll have to find a different volunteer for that one. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif But I will say that I like using both RMF and MMM and each as strengths and weaknesses for specific mowing applications. I think it boils down to a couple things when choosing between the two; consider the terrain and the types of landscaping you mow/mow around plus consider the non-mowing tasks required by the machine.

 

[MrJoe]

Thanks for all the work Bob. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifYou just confirmed my "seat of the pants" observation that helped push me into the CaseIH camp.
Joe

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> You just confirmed my "seat of the pants" observation that helped push me into the CaseIH camp. </font>


I should have negotiated a commission from the manufacturers who make curved arm loaders before posting those pictures /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[ByronBob]

Outstanding work with you and your family.
Reading all the comments I don't have much to add other than that fact alone wouldn't persuade me one way or another on a tractor. It isn't enough to matter. If Kubota thinks their loosing market share over it you better believe they'll make changes quickly.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

ByronBob . . . Kubota is not the only manufacturer who needs to look at this. JD's current line up is not any better in terms of visibility than Kubota, at least not with their under 40hp machines. NH, Case/Farmall & Kioti are the only 3 who offer the combination right now; and Kioti only offers them on their "homeowner" type machines right now. JD is changing their designs of their hoods as they roll out new models. I don't hear anything about Mahindra changing theirs, and they have big fat loader arms and relatively bulky hoods.

There is a lot of road construction around my business, I've noticed that many of the newer machines building the roads (rollers, loaders, etc) are dramatically more rounded and curved than older models of the same equipement. Ingersoll Rand has taken sloped engine compartments to the extreme on their large machines. I think this is a growing design trend. And the reason it is growing is because greater visibility speeds up work and getting the work done faster is a cost savings.

I believe most people UNDERESTIMATE how much benefit the added visibility is when working, but while I believe that, I wouldn't trade in a tractor to get a curved arm machine. But if buying new, I would definately factor the ease of use and the added productivity into the decision process because if I can work faster, then I can get more work done in less time . . . and that is the reason I got a tractor in the first place.

For me, even if a tractor costs $1000 more up front but if I save many hours a year in work, and I keep that tractor for a decade or more, than the added cost is going to be saved many times over.

 

[fishman]

Bob, thanks for the comparison photos. About as scientific as one could get, given all the obstacles (like "how do I afford all these tractors?") /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyway it sure looks like, all other things being equal, that curved loader arms and the NH seat geometry is the way to go.

 

[KiotiJohn]

Very nice job Bob. As has been said, the photos make a huge difference over just trying to explain one's thoughts.
Thanks to your daughter as well. I'm tickled you could get her youthful attention long enough to get through it all!
BTW, Kioti offers the sloped hood and curved loader on the CK20, 25, and 30, sloped hood only on the DK55. Look for more models to join the sloped pack in the near future. John

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> Kioti offers the sloped hood and curved loader on the CK20, 25, and 30, sloped hood only on the DK55. Look for more models to join the sloped pack in the near future. </font>

John, I think the LK series is about due for design overhaul? I know that John Deere is rolling out new machine designs as well, starting with their larger CUTs and working their way down their line. I know you and I have had some good fights on the boards, but the one thing we both agree on in every thread is the added productivity gain and ease of use of the curved arms and the sloped/curved hoods.

I suspect that as the lifecycle comes to the end of every manufacturers products they will reintroduce their new models with greater consideration to curves and visibility. It may take many manufacturers 5 years to do it, but I strongly suspect it will be an evolutionary change.

<font color="red"> I'm tickled you could get her youthful attention long enough to get through it all! </font>

Well I had to keep the engines running on the tractors while I took the pictures because she was so fidgity that I finally threatened her that if she moved I would scoop her up and put her back on the spot /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Inspector507]

Here's the seam Bob was referring to. It does look like a "seam", but it's way too perfect. The arms do sound like they're solid, but very thick.

 

[Inspector507]

Here's another shot.

 

[Inspector507]

The arms do have forged ends, top and bottom.

 

[Inspector507]

This is my view. The first tractor I owned had a square hood, but no loader. This one has the sloped hood and curved arms. From what I saw of the comparison photos, I like this view better.

 

[Inspector507]

Second shot

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Just out of curiosity, did you measure how high above the seat your eye level is, seat location, etc? Your view is very similar to mine, but seems to be taken from a slightly lower position (and your camera angle is also slightly different) so I am guessing you are a bit shorter than I am (or at least your torso is shorter than mine). Also, I'm not sure, but don't you have a TC18, while I know the frame is the same as the TC24, something tells me it had slightly smaller diameter tires which could also account for some slight difference in perspective (in addition to the camera angle difference). But like you said, the view is better.

 

[Inspector507]

Bob,
This morning I did remember I wanted to measure the seat height from the ground and possibly my "line of sight" height, but forgot. I had just changed the oil, filter and lubed it. I also changed the fuel filter and I will stick to the recommended interval for THAT again. I figured for 5 bucks, why not. Because it's a pain in the patoot, thats why not. I also re-routed the throttle cable that appeared to have been done wrong somewhere along the line. It was running behind the fuel filter and oil dip stick. Looked like it would be a straight shot if it was not BEHIND all that. Of course I lost the E-clip on the end /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I'll pick up one tomorrow.
So I guess I was a little frustrated and forgot.

I'll have to get it back out later and measure those.

 

[rockinmywaypa]

Regarding the seam,That's just part of the manufacturing process, all square tube starts out life as a piece of flat bar. It goes through a series of dies until it has been bent into the square with the two edges touching wherein a welder finishes it off with that perfect weld. round tube and pipe is the same. All done by machine so all processes can be closly controlled.If you look inside any tube you'll see the bead . Now regarding the loader, Yes it does make for better visibility but as Jinma has said it has to cost more to make and the same effect could be accomplished if the joint that's on an ordinary loader is straightened out so the top arms are sloped down on a tangent similar to the operator looking down and out[some days I look pretty down and out]. This gives the same increase of view, and I think actually makes the arms stronger when pushing since the forces move toward the mounts in a straighter line.In personal experience I put a 30 yr old loader on my tractor that has this sloped down look to it and it was great when I was replacing beams in the barn stable. chain said beam to loader bucket lift into place against ceiling and jockey back anf forth to get it onto larger sills at ends. all done without those loader arms contacting the ceiling first which would be the case if I,d had those arms that are approuching a 90o angle at the joint above the front tire.

 

[MadReferee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Regarding the seam,That's just part of the manufacturing process, all square tube starts out life as a piece of flat bar. It goes through a series of dies until it has been bent into the square with the two edges touching wherein a welder finishes it off with that perfect weld.)</font>

Unless it's DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing which is typically used in applications where the inside must be true and free from the weld bead. Trailer hitches are usually made from DOM tubing.

 

[ronjhall]

Jerry
The tubing is welded with a process called ERW (electric resistance welding). The finish comes out of the mill looking very similar to your arms.I don't know the process for making the Tubing. Maybe someone else can explain it for us.
The ends looks like a steel casting not a forged part. Plenty strong, but cheaper to make than forging or machining.

 

[5030]

Bob:

I am getting in this one a little late, but in your pictures, the square hood of the Kubota, most notably the hood medallion/opener versus the round smooth hood of the New Holland was precisely why I bought the Kubota. Of course I have a bigger Kubota, but I just happened to borrow a TN series NH a few weeks ago.

The square hooded Kubota with the medallion makes it much, much easier to align your rows will working in the field. Same holds true for larger Deeres too. I had a hard time keeping straight with the TN. With the TN, you can look about right down at the ground. it reminds me of an old Volkswagon Beetle. I have trouble orienting myself without the square hood.

Of course most posters here buy CUT's for around the estate, not what I do with my 5030 so a sloped hood would probably be an advantage.