Compare Chineese Lathes

[RedDirt]

I'm buying a lathe to upgrade my shop capability from rudimentary tractor implement fabrication to being able to fab precision parts for the implements. I want to bore, turn a shaft, cut threads, etc. Actually I am looking at 3 in 1 machines (drill, mill, lathe) so I can cut keyways slot holes and such too.

My question is regarding the quality the various makes available. When I look at a certain model I can find several companies offering precisely the same model, just painted a different color.

For instance I am considering a lathe with attached mill and see virtually the same machine built by Shop Fox, Bolton, Grizzly, and Harbor Freight. Prices are $1900, $1700, $1500 and $1300 respectively but they seem the exact machine with the same specifications. Occasionally some additional equipment is offered as standard equipment but this is normally not enough to warrant the cost difference. The Grizzly operator manual is far superior to the HF manual but both are downloadable...no biggie here.

So I am wondering, as a general rule, are the more expensive makes getting better machines from the manufacturer and the cheaper ones have imperfections, don't bench test as well or, in some way, an inferior machine? Or...if it looks and specs the same then it is only a "name" I'm buying and I am just as well off with the Harbor Freight as the Shop Fox?

With a readily available 20% off HF coupon the HF is roughly $850 less than the Shop Fox not including shipping for the Shop Fox and local pick up for the HF. That's substantial enough for most wallets to consider the HF model!

BTW - These smallish low price machines normally don't warrant an individual test certificate.

 

[NH-Rob]

I have the harbor frieght 8x12 bench lathe. I don't use it much so I am not very good with it but it has saved my but enough times to have paid for itself. I will tell you it is one heavy unit. I put it in my basement and had to use a chain fall to lift it onto the bench. A 3 in 1 would be nice but when I did my research I found it would be better to buy seperate machines, maybe I was wrong but that was the impression I got.
Rob

 

[mrennie]

All the machines you are looking at are similar quality, which unfortunately is significantly poorer than most any used US made machines will be. This is not to say they can't make decent parts, but if you ever crank the hand wheels on a South Bend or Clausing then do the same with a HF or Grizzly, you'll immediately see the difference.

Having said all that, buying a new Chinese machine does *hopefully* mean the machine is not worn out, and parts *should* be available, but it would be wise to check the gearbox and apron on any new Chinese machine for leftover casting sand or metal chips, and replace the fluids with new quality oils.

If I may offer 2 words of advice:

-Do not buy a 3 in 1 machine. They have extremely limited work capacity and take significant time to switch back and forth between lathe and mill, and are at best a serious compromise. You would be way better off buying a seperate lathe and mill, even if that means buying a lathe now and a mill down the road (get the lathe first!).

-Buy the biggest lathe you can afford. If you buy a 10"x24" lathe or smaller you will be disappointed the first time you want to chuck something bigger and it doesn't. Alot of work can be done on a 12"x36", and bigger = more rigid = more accurate and bigger cuts.

Have fun!

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I have a Smithy 3 in 1 lathe,mill,drill. I have had it for 10 yrs without any problems. The only thing I find wrong with it is the lead screws aren't as precise as I would like. It is hard to take exactly .0001 off somthing. For generl fabrication it is great. For exact work it isn't.
It would be great to have a southbend lathe and a Bridgeport mill but most of them are 3 phase, weigh a ton or more and take up a lot of space.
Bill

 

[6sunset6]

I have a Southbend 10" toolmaker lathe. I replaced the 3p motor with a 1P
no problems except rewiring the reversing switch.
I also have an ENCO bridgeport type mill I ordered new probably 25 years ago.
It was ordered with a 1ph motor. Both machines work fine.
I have always swapped out 3 ph motors when I could. I had a Rockwell mill once that had a special motor and I had to build a rotary 3 ph converter for that worked fine. I have a surface grinder with a 3ph spindle motor and I built in a capacitor jump starter for that one. So there are a number of ways to get around 3ph. up to 5hp anyway. 3hp 1ph are more common than 5hp.

I have found used machines are pretty beat and chinese ones are so so. I lucked out with my Enco Mill I think.

 

[charlz]

Home Shop Machinist website is the place to go for Chinese info... you'll get badly flamed on Practical Machinist with their anti-Chinese, anti-hobby machines policy

From what I understand about the Grizzly vs HF vs Others is Grizzly has much better 'after the sale' customer support.

Be careful of the 'machine tools bug' I can already see how much better a larger lathe would be not to mention a nice mill Tooling $$ can be as much if not more than the price of the machine!

 

[jmc]

I used to hang out on that home shop machinist board that Charlz recommended and you'll find out more than you want to know about these lathes. The one thing that I do remember is the idea that most of these similiar machines are made in the same factory and that the more established sales organizations (like grizzly or jet) get first pick of the machines. Presumably they are willing to pay the premium for that privilege and it shows in their price. The lesser machines go cheaper to the mid tier distributors and so on. I don't know if that idea is fact or theory but it would explain the spectrum of prices, along with higher customer service commitment.

You didn't say if you have much experience with a lathe but you did say you wanted to turn shafts for tractor related projects. Check out the maximum stock diameter that will fit thru the headstock. A small lathe will limit you to small diameters, even if you are just turning one end of the shaft. A workaround would be turning it between centers, which is limited by the lathe bed length, plus its hard or impossible to turn, face, or drill the shaft end while its supported by the tailstock. Sorry if you knew this- it's just that I have a 14 inch lathe (max turning diameter) and sometimes its too small for my tractor projects.

John

 

[glc24]

If you can afford it,stay away from Chinese built precision tools. They don't have it right yet (and may never get it right) with quality Too bad our American companies that have things built over there,worry about that almighty dollar rather than putting out decent quality products.

Greg

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

If you can find you an oldie but goodie, there are now electronic converters that can give you extended capabilities on single phase. Most converters can be had for less than $300 now.

Look for old Southbend, Monarch, Hardinge, clausing colchester, the list goes on...

 

[EE_Bota]

I sure hope this does not post twice..I lost my first post before submission.
I bought the 3 in 1 shown below, and it has/had the following issues:
The ways were rough enough from the factory that if you tightened them for stability, they would not move when cranked. I resolved this by releasing all the moving works so I could slide all ways by hand, and then with lapping compound, I lapped and slid and slid an lapped until the machine and I had quite enough. Left behind were tool marks that would hold oil/ but not effect functioning.
Problem two...there is no knee like on nice milling machines, so when using short bits (such as all small diameter bits) the work needs to be elevated in the vice for the bit to touch the work. However, most large diameter drill bits are so long, that they will not clear the work, or in some cases, they will not even clear the table. So, I have to use my collet set for these, since I can hide some of the bit length in the collet. But as you can imagine, this is a pain if one wishes to start with a pilot bit, and progress through larger bits...painful.

It truly would make a much better lathe than it will a milling machine. The milling part does rotate clean out of the way of the lathe, and in a pinch, I hoist the milling head upwards and put spacer shims to try to deal with some of my drill space issues.

 

[EE_Bota]

Actually, they do make my 3-1 still, and it is here.
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

 

[dfkrug]

It would be great to have a southbend lathe and a Bridgeport mill but most of them are 3 phase, weigh a ton or more and take up a lot of space.

I hear ya, Bill. I agonized over this for years before I decided to get a new
9x20 Chinese lathe from Grizzley. I seriously considered an old used lathe,
but I have limited floor space, I want to run on 120V, and some of the
older ones I have seen are really beat up. They ARE cheap, however.

Am I satisfied with it? Sort of. But it was a trade-off. If I needed collets
or more capacity, I would consider the bigger units from Grizzley, or a
well cared for older US unit. There are a lot of old guys out there with lathes
at home who are a vanishing breed. As they are being sold off, they
come up all the time on Craigs.

 

[vbrent]

I'm buying a lathe to upgrade my shop capability

Hi, RedDirt, Just my two cents.

I've bought several differing quality Chinese made woodworking tools over the years. While I can say they get the job done, they are extremely frustrating to use. Think Yugo compared to basically any other car manufacturer. Yugos were hand built and the parts from one car never quite fit another.

I find Chinese tools are sloppy, difficult to set up, and parts break easily. Precision is not their forte, price is. Usage is subjective rather than objective. When I set the table to 0 degrees, it ain't quite zero, I have to play with it a while to get true zero. Never the same set up twice.

That said, as I get older, I replace my tools with American or European brands, and my pocket get lighter, but my blood pressure heads back to normal and I have to split more wood for the woodstove.

BTW, in the mid 80's a Porsche dealer in Ft. Lauderdale was giving away free Yugos with the purchase of a new Porsche. LOL, I remember driving past the Dollhouse and seeing a stripper getting out of her brand new Yugo...

 

[drivadesl]

I haven't purchased any large machine tools as you mentioned from Harbor Freight etc. so don't have first hand info on the comparisons. Read up on the 3n1 machines on the Home Shop Machinist Forum, they have a dedicated forum for these.

Originally I was looking at the HF line, but after investigating it, I decided old US iron was a better choice for me. From what I've read, the east coast has more old used equipment than the western states, so finding something used wasn't to hard to do. If your not in a rush, you may find some craigslist deals, or look at used machine dealers, or small repair shops that may be looking to liquidate. I was able to find a pretty decent 10" South Bend, with boxes of tooling for $1K. I then decided I had to have a Mill, so looked for a Bridgeport Knee Mill and found a great deal from a model shop who was closing up. This one below had a DRO, power feed, Kurt vice, and oiler for $1200. If you can wait and have patience, I would recommend going used, since the tooling costs as much as the machine and quickly adds up. Anyway, best of luck in your decision, let us know how it works out. I love having the capacity to custom fab parts when needed.

 

[Kernopelli]

I have the HF 3-in1 posted here and paid about $300 off Ebay for it from a freight recovery company...pretty easy purchase. If I had the choice, I would have a larger shop and the biggest separate lathe and mill I could find/afford. I don't have that much shop space and at the time I had zero luck finding one of those $400 Southbend lathes w/tools rumored to be floating around . With a little tweaking and time spent, the HF will do small things with Ok accuracy, I'm sure a more knowledgeable machinist could get more out of it. However, we have used the snot out of it and it has paid for its self many times over.

I didn't want to spend much when I started looking for one and eventually will put some money and effort into upgrading. If I was going to plan on spending $1700 plus tooling right now, I would start searching for an old larger separate lathe and mill that would definitely be better quality And comes with some tooling. I think this would be the best money spent.

 

[whistlepig]

I haven't purchased any large machine tools as you mentioned from Harbor Freight etc. so don't have first hand info on the comparisons. Read up on the 3n1 machines on the Home Shop Machinist Forum, they have a dedicated forum for these.

Originally I was looking at the HF line, but after investigating it, I decided old US iron was a better choice for me. From what I've read, the east coast has more old used equipment than the western states, so finding something used wasn't to hard to do. If your not in a rush, you may find some craigslist deals, or look at used machine dealers, or small repair shops that may be looking to liquidate. I was able to find a pretty decent 10" South Bend, with boxes of tooling for $1K. I then decided I had to have a Mill, so looked for a Bridgeport Knee Mill and found a great deal from a model shop who was closing up. This one below had a DRO, power feed, Kurt vice, and oiler for $1200. If you can wait and have patience, I would recommend going used, since the tooling costs as much as the machine and quickly adds up. Anyway, best of luck in your decision, let us know how it works out. I love having the capacity to custom fab parts when needed.

How refreshing to see a picture of a genuine Bridgeport! I've spent a few hundred hours running Bridgeports. I've spent a few hundred hours running Chinese and off brand lathes and mills also. There is a huge difference. The lead gears on the off brand lathes have slop in them. When chasing threads the lead gears won't repeat and each pass of threading makes very poor threads. As far as the mills go there is so much slop in the ways that the cuts won't lap. It's very hard to get a smooth finish. For making trinkets an off brand lathe or mill will do. But if you want to make something of real precision and is a true pleasure to operate buy one of these here Bridgeports. Made in USA.

 

[FlaDon]

I used to hang out on that home shop machinist board that Charlz recommended and you'll find out more than you want to know about these lathes. The one thing that I do remember is the idea that most of these similiar machines are made in the same factory and that the more established sales organizations (like grizzly or jet) get first pick of the machines. Presumably they are willing to pay the premium for that privilege and it shows in their price. The lesser machines go cheaper to the mid tier distributors and so on. I don't know if that idea is fact or theory but it would explain the spectrum of prices, along with higher customer service commitment.

You didn't say if you have much experience with a lathe but you did say you wanted to turn shafts for tractor related projects. Check out the maximum stock diameter that will fit thru the headstock. A small lathe will limit you to small diameters, even if you are just turning one end of the shaft. A workaround would be turning it between centers, which is limited by the lathe bed length, plus its hard or impossible to turn, face, or drill the shaft end while its supported by the tailstock. Sorry if you knew this- it's just that I have a 14 inch lathe (max turning diameter) and sometimes its too small for my tractor projects.

John

Back when the 4 rings on a car meant Auto Union and not Audi, DKW did about what you are talking about. Every engine went on the dyno. The racers got the ones that produced the best results. The top of the car line got the next level. And what was left went into the run of the mill cars.

As for lathes, we have two. Both are 12X36. Both are Atlas/Craftsman. One is a bench model and the other is on a stand. Don't know what we'd do without them. We've had the one for almost 30 years and it was used when we got it.

 

[EE_Bota]

I agree. A solid US machine with some tooling with it is definitely the way I would go if...I only had the room. And I don't use it that much. But I think if I had a better machine, I would use it right much more. Room is the key. The machine I have is better than nothing, but is not even a reasonable comparison to the old US machines.

 

[charlz]

If you are going to look at older US or Euro lathes then lathes.co.uk has all kinds of info on various manufactures.

 

[roamrdb]

this isnt really about chinese lathes, but i thought some of ya'll might find this interesting. i stumbled upon this a couple years ago. it is one of the most ingenious ideas i have ever seen. it amazes me the ideas some people come up with. the yahoo group, you have to join in order to view. this is all open source, no plans to buy, they are available to all. hope you find it interesting too.


multimachine : Open Source machine tools

here is about a 40 minute video on building it and seeing it run,
Multimachine Video : Open Source Machine
...................................................
at the bottom of this page you will find a pdf on building the multimachine,
Open Source Machine
.........
its worth joining the yahoo group just to see the pictures of what others have built plus there is tons of info