compact TLB vs. full size TLB

[LarryRB]

don't forget, not hard, but a pain to put fuel in. I do lots of stumping with my 48, and use a 12" bucket for this... The 48 is a good all around machine,, Of course one could buy a full sized if the need is there,,, The 48 does all I've asked for and more... Probably could do a foundation hole.. Would take a lot longer, but, could be done if you have the time.

 

[Builder]

don't forget, not hard, but a pain to put fuel in. I do lots of stumping with my 48, and use a 12" bucket for this... The 48 is a good all around machine,, Of course one could buy a full sized if the need is there,,, The 48 does all I've asked for and more... Probably could do a foundation hole.. Would take a lot longer, but, could be done if you have the time.

Sure, but if that's the philosophy, why not just use a shovel? It costs lots less and the only drawback is it would just take more time.

Guys, I appreciate the ability of an L-48, but it's not an excavator's machine. Just because the guy buys a full size TLB don't mean he can't sell it when he's done then buy an L-48 to finish the rest of the work.

Does everyone here still own the same car they had when they were 16? have the same drill, saw, trailer, etc.? No. It's the same way with tractors. You use the right tool (or in this case, tractor) for the right job.

A lot of you are pushing him to buy an L-48 because it works for YOU, on YOUR hobby farm or your landscaping business, but that's not the task he's trying to accomplish, here.

Let's put our own self interests aside for a minute and try to help this man find the best way to spend $35,000 on a machine to dig a house foundation, install a driveway, septic system, and take down some big trees.

That's not what the L-48 was intended to do. If he wanted a landscaper's or small farm tractor, the L-48 would be suitable. But that's not what he's trying to do at the present, is it?

 

[LarryRB]

The 48 is a good all around machine,, Of course one could buy a full sized if the need is there,,, .

Builder, read what I wrote! If the need is there, buy a bigger machine., Why do we have to continually beat the dead horse? A 48 is a good all around machine, if you disagree fine.,. We read and KNOW WHAT HIS QUESTION IS.,.

 

[jmfox]

But that's not what he's trying to do

I think all we can do is offer our experience and opinion based on similar circumstances. As far as I can tell none of us have anything to gain no matter what machine JPCjr chooses. It is interesting how machine owners get attached to their mechanical helpers. It's not just a thing but the sum total of a company mind. Builder keeps his eye on the ball, I enjoy the process, others have enjoyed their Kubota, Deere, etc. So its not just what you're trying to do but how much time you have and whether you want to have some fun along the way, etc., etc. And no one can help or advise you about these things, they are yours alone.

jmf

 

[BarryinMN]

Yes, I realize that a FS TLB doesn't have a 3 pt hitch. That was a big reason I was considering the L48. However, at this point I realize that there is no one machine that will accomplish everything I want to do. I think a FS TLB and a smaller tractor will do it for me though. I'm thinking I'll get the FS TLB first and then a used tractor later. I may or may not sell the FS TLB. I have a feeling once I have it, I won't want to get rid of it. There are all sorts of projects I'd like to do after the house is built....a pond, rain water collection, clear land for a garden and who knows what else once I get out there.

I'll take a spin on the "what else." Starting with the transport system for equipment and materials. A full size TLB needs a lot of space to stretch out and chain down unless it's an extendahoe. And they get hefty fast - quickly puts you above 26K GCVW and all that goes with it.

Maintenance is a variable more hours = more maintenance. If something major breaks it gets more interesting.

No one perfect machine is true. The TLB is tippy digging rocks on hills. I added a dozer which came with a QT backhoe, the dozer itself is not tippy at all. Built my pond much faster than the TLB.

The ag tractor is the only thing I bought new. Use it year round mowing at +100F & snow removal at -30F. Multiple attachments front & rear.

Nowdays I mostly use the TLB to dig & lift dirt, use the tractor with rock bucket/grapple to grab and pull various attachments, the dozer to dig on slopes as well as make trails, plus Winter logging in the woods.

This year the tractor, its attachments or TLB were not cutting it to pick up small rocks in the field. (Previous efforts were focused on large rocks.) Added a 900 hour '90 JD skidsteer with 33hp. Old but mint condition and cheaper than a used Haybuster. A Haybuster is a PTO/hyd rock windrower, picker & dump all-in-one machine.

Be sure to build a large enough barn up front to house your list of tools. I still have space left but my list is complete. I avoided the SS for years because they are noisy, hot, dusty, dirty, etc.

Solved the noise problem by drilling a hole in the roof and mounting a REI roof mount radio and plugging in an Ebay noise reduction headset. Works great & mutes the hydro whine to a low rumble similar to the dozer. The rest of the issues - well there is no perfect machine.

 

[Dirthog]

Builder has sum good points but another thing to consider is the fact that some one with the right equipment and know how could do the job in 1/4 the time and cost. The only thing a larger machine will do is make more of a mess if you don't know what you are doing. I have a L48 and I love it. It has done everything I ask and more we installed 17,000 feet of main water line and moved all the bedding sand and did most of the backfilling with it. Just remember there is no perfect machine for every job

 

[xxxsandman]

I was just going to say if I got the proper machine for every job I've done on my place, I would be bankrupt.

With that being said my advise is buy the most versital machine(s) you can with the amount of money you have to spend. It my also work to your advantage to plan on selling some of the equipment you purchase for your initial contruction and replacing it with something more suited for the type of work you will do after you build your house. If you choose that route, be sure to buy the equipment you plan on re-selling at a good price. If you buy it at a good price and don't tear it up, no one will care about the 100 hours you put on it and you will probably get most if not all of your money back!

 

[Builder]

Builder, read what I wrote! If the need is there, buy a bigger machine., Why do we have to continually beat the dead horse? A 48 is a good all around machine, if you disagree fine.,. We read and KNOW WHAT HIS QUESTION IS.,.

Relax. I never said I disagree with the statement that the L-48 is a good machine. Of course it's a good machine, in fact, it's a very good machine.

You guys are getting all hurt & insulted that JPCjr's needs aren't really a good fit for your L-48s. The better fit for him is a big TLB first, then sell it and buy a small TLB (like an L-48 or smaller).

You act like I hate the L-48. I don't hate your beloved L-48. What I DO hate is people suggesting to a man in search of help the wrong advice or tools to get his job done right. I think Coopers, EddieWalker, Mike and some other guys here have really made some great suggestions.

Others are more intent on simply pushing the tractor they own to feel like they can publically justify in their minds that they bought the best machine that can do ANYTHING.

 

[Dirthog]

I am not trying to push any machine if I was it would be a large excavator you can do just about anything with those that you can with a backhoe with the exception of carrying dirt/stone and I have done that when it was the only way to get it in My point is that if you are going to buy a backhoe to do your own work and have no experence don't plan on saving any large amount money or time it won't happen. With the permits and inspections now days if it's not done right they will not let you keep building and more important the bank in most cases will not finance it! Almost a third of my work is fixing up things that have done wrong in the first place. For the amount of money you are going to spend you could have the work done $35,000 will buy a lot of labor because that is all you can save much on the materials will cost about the same.

 

[jmfox]

As a master of none, I have learned that you cannot beat a good man at his trade. But there are other reasons for the do it yourselfers. A few hears ago I was building a new driveway. Normally a bulldozer is used, but because of the junk I needed to move and the location of the drive, I rented and excavator to dig it out. All went well, but when it came time to level it out and call for the stone my tractor with hytico (box scraper) broke down. So I called in the troops. They stormed in and took over the show. I had specific instructions for the depth of the gravel, placement and pitch of the drive, wide spots for passing etc. but they new better. In the time it takes to answer a phone or run to the store they did what they do every day. When the dust settled it was not what I wanted, they understood what I wanted, but those subtle differences were lost on their rush to get er done. I own the driveway but it is not my making. So, if all your job needs is a cookie cutter, you can't beat a guy who does it day in and day out. This is the safest bet, especially if you are not willing to do your homework. However, if it is your masterpiece, or you have a special interest, you best do it yourself. This may not be the fastest or most efficient, but like any job worth doing, it has the greatest rewards. Digging a basement is not exactly the Sistine Chapel, but doing it yourself, PROPERLY, (homework, homework, homework) can add meaning to the phrase "my house."

jmf

 

[AlanB]

Well said JMF.

There are things in my house, I want the way I want them, and honestly, it does not happen that way unless I do it.

Am I wrong in the way I want them? Quite possibly, but it is still what I want.

 

[Dirthog]

If you paid for something that was wrong or not done to your specs shame on you I always try to please the customer If I see something that I feel is not right I try and explain why it should not be done that way. If the customer will not change and I know it is going to cause problems I can and have walked away seeing they are done right and my good name in tact are worth more than the money!!

 

[jmfox]

I guess I'm the kind of guy who gets the wrong meal at the diner and eats it anyway. In my many years of doing these kinds of things I know it is near impossible to get someone to share the same vision. I paid the guys because they did what the know best.

jmf

 

[JPCjr]

I agree jmfox.

As I have said, I have no doubt that a profesional can accomplish the work that I want done faster than I can. But I don't think a profesional can do it better. It's my property, so I'll spend as much time as it takes to get the result I want. A profesional won't. He'll do it as quickly as he can using the tools/skills he has and then move on the the next job. That's just the way to make money in construction. I'm not trying to make money, I'm trying to build my home exactly the way I want it.

As a good example, check this out:
Building a timberframe home from scratch.: June 2007
There is absolutely no way a contractor would ever produce something like that. Although whatever I build will pale in comparison to that house, the philosophy is the same.

Also, I really don't think I can hire out the work I have for less than the cost of a used TLB. This is what I need done:
At least a 750 ft. driveway cut in and graded.
At least one, probably two culverts installed.
Site cleared for a barn.
Slab/foundation prep for a barn.
Septic system installed.
Trench work between well, barn, and house.
Rain water collection system installed.
Site cleared for house, possibly harvesting the hardwoods for future woodwork in the home.
Basement and foundation excavation
Backfilling and rough landscape work
Clearing and grading an area for a garden
Lots of rocks moved
Materials transport duing barn and home construction

The property isn't very accessible to large equipment. It's a good half mile down a narrow hilly dirt road with lots of curves.

I think Builder (and others) is right, a used TLB is my best bet. Although the SS/Excavator combination sure is tempting, I think it would cost a lot more and I may struggle with some of the rocks that need moving.

 

[coopers]

I agree jmfox.

As I have said, I have no doubt that a professional can accomplish the work that I want done faster than I can. But I don't think a professional can do it better. It's my property, so I'll spend as much time as it takes to get the result I want. A professional won't.

I agree with that 100%. It may be easier in some aspect to hire out, but you're right, it won't be done exactly how you want it to be done. A handful of people will do the best they can (if they're truly in it for the right reasons) but they will get tired of all the nit picking and their are other jobs lined up. That's why the landscape of a home never stays the same. You're always modifying it and even hiring some professional to design a better landscape and then redoing it. I like the idea of having the machines to do the work yourself and you know EXACTLY how you want something done.

Also, I really don't think I can hire out the work I have for less than the cost of a used TLB. This is what I need done:
At least a 750 ft. driveway cut in and graded.
At least one, probably two culverts installed.
Site cleared for a barn.
Slab/foundation prep for a barn.
Septic system installed.
Trench work between well, barn, and house.
Rain water collection system installed.
Site cleared for house, possibly harvesting the hardwoods for future woodwork in the home.
Basement and foundation excavation
Backfilling and rough landscape work
Clearing and grading an area for a garden
Lots of rocks moved
Materials transport during barn and home construction

You're right, I think it would cost far more to have all this done by a dirt work guy than just buying your own machine. Machine = cheaper.

I am very glad that this thread was started, despite some differences in opinions this allows other out there who are lurking on this website to learn a lot about machinery and their little places they fill in the construction world. The disagreements also help solidify ones beliefs and possibly help give new insights as well.

JPCjr: Have you had the chance to look at any machines yet? Anything jumping out at you?

Blake
WA

 

[coopers]

Just a few I found: 2003 CASE 580M For Sale at MachineryTrader.com

Second: 2001 CASE 580M For Sale at MachineryTrader.com

I like the looks of the second, I'd be a little inquisitive about the painting of the machine but if it runs great then sweet! A new paint job is always nice too if it runs great.

The first one looks like it's from Hertz along with the other backhoes, but sometimes a rental place isn't always that bad. We had machines I'd buy from my old rental company and some I wouldn't. Some machines get beat more than others. You can also ask them if anything is for sale ahead of time, these are probably just being kicked out because they want '07's or something. A lot of 580L and SL's are going for around $35K. I'm sure you could talk someone down to that too if you find a good M model that is a little higher than $35K. I know that these two don't have cabs and I'm not sure how big of a deal that is for ya but just thought I'd pull those for examples. Both are e-hoes.

Blake
WA

 

[Builder]

I actually almost bought a Super M with an AC cab for $36,000! I think working in those hot NC summers, you'll love it.

There's deals to be had out there. Just gotta keep your eyes on the sites that move equipment and don't be afraid to ask them to take lots off the asking price.

Like Coopers said, you're buying the right machine, now you just need to find a good one!

 

[heymack]

JCPjr, there's a lot of good info, discussion and debate going on around here and I figured I'd add my 2 cents. I decided to buy a used TLB a couple years ago to do a variety of tasks on my 100 acre place after using an old 580C on our ranch during the 1980's. Trying to stay with mainstream brands like Cat, Case, JD or Ford, I wound up with a 1984 555A that I bought from a local municipality with only 3000 hours for less than $10K. I considered 4x4 for about two seconds but easily decided against it (and its extra cost/maintenance) when I determined I wouldn't be using the machine in muddy conditions because I don't want to tear my place up, my land is mostly flat, and because I didn't intend to use the machine for tons of loader work where the added traction "might" be needed. To date, I've used this machine for so much more than I ever could have imagined. I won't bore you with details, but once you get one, you'll realize how versatile it really is (I think I'm over 1000 uses and counting). Also, as far as maintenance is concerned, to date all I've done is general/routine maintenance and a couple hydraullic hose replacements.....knock on wood.

Now to my point, while a $30-40K machine I'm seeing in the above links would probably do your job a little quicker, don't discount an older machine for much less cost. The way I figured it, if I want to eventually sell, I'll easily get my money back because these things tend to "bottom out" down around the $10K level for a clean machine, BUT if I want to keep it for many years to come, I won't feel bad because I'm into the deal for so little money, I can easily afford to let it sit idle while not worrying about it paying for itself on a jobsite. Additionally, I'm not out the high rental fees and not under any time constraints as I would be had I rented one.

By purchasing the lower cost TLB, I now have a very handy full-sized TLB and a brand new 55 HP NH farm tractor for less than $24K total investment. It's funny, when the NH dealer was delivering my new tractor, he looked at my backhoe and commented that I would have to be crazy to get rid of that good old 555 (we'd briefly discussed adding a front-end loader to my new NH) but that if I ever did, he always has three or four guys ready to buy.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[coopers]

Now to my point, while a $30-40K machine I'm seeing in the above links would probably do your job a little quicker, don't discount an older machine for much less cost.

Good point, I was thinking about that while I was looking at the 580D's and E's (for my own interest). Going with an older cheaper machine will give you the opportunity to buy a nicer newer if not brand new CUT with all the implements you need. Either way is good.

Blake
WA

 

[Kendall69]

These numbers are a little skewed. A new cab and air unit XYZ brand will run about 30-35k.
A used ( IN MY AREA) Southern Ca. and according to a local dealer, who I just talked to - Case full size, 400-700 hours 70-75k. 5000 hrs, 40k -
A junker with parts needed ( air compressor ) 28k.

According to Machinery trader, they have some 1992 with 2,500 hrs. $38,500k.

For my money smaller new is always better than buying someone else's junk.

When you figure the time a used piece of equipment has to spend in the shop, a smaller tractor will out dig a bigger tractor anytime. Heck you could out dig a used piece of junk with a teaspoon.

Oh sure you "MAY" find that one Jewel out there, " my brothers Uncle twin's cousin just bought a ..." but the reality is people that buy these full size tractors USE THEM, and abuse them, then trade them off to suckers that want to save a buck.


1997
Manufacturer CASE
Model 590SL
Price $41,500
Location Rapid City, South Dakota
Serial Number JJG0208660
Condition USED
Drive 4WD
Horse Power 100
Hours 6,086

And by the time you put on tires and go through it, your up to 50k plus.

For $41,500, and 6k hours, definitely NOT a bargain, and there a lot more of these then there are “ Sweet buy’s “

1997 CASE 590SL For Sale at MachineryTrader.com