Co-op concepts and ideas anyone?

[TimOb]

I remember a thread that mentioned a co-op idea and I got to thinking about this for seldom used implements, which for me might be something like a post hole digger.

I'd like to see if anyone wants to brainstorm this idea so I started this thread just to see what we can come up with.

Here's my first idea: Put together a PT trader webpage. We just use it to manage trading implements. Trading can be buying, selling or just well, trading. It could include a feedback section to help keep us all honest, etc. If it gets popular enough, maybe we could even get a link to it from the PT website. It could be a great selling point.

There would of course be many details to work out.

Is this just food for thought or is it more?

Ok, more ideas anyone?

 

[BobRip]

I think a small co-op can work. With two or maybe three people. You select some attachments that don't overlap and are not used a lot. Clint Blake and I are basically doing that. However, we work togther every day, and have a fair amount of trust. I am confident that if he damages one of my attachments then he will either fix it, we will both ignore it, or he will buy me a new one. Most likey I would fix it since I have a welder. He also has so much firepower that if I damaged one of his attachments, I would immediately drive to Tazewell and buy him a new on.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

For near neighbors it could also work.

Farmers used to do co-ops, but I don't know the details of how they made it work. I have heard that one would have a wood shop, and one a black smith shop. They probably worked together on projects.

I also have a co-op with three neighbors. If they need something done, I take the PT and do it. They thank me, and I am happy. If I damage the PT, then I fix it. Probably not what you had in mine, but good relations with your neighbors is priceless, and it's fun to show off and good to get seat time. Some times they give me a little money and one guy helped me pull a really bit stump.

Good luck on this

Bob Rip

 

[BobRip]

Tim, I think that I may have sabotaged your thread. I am sorry for that. Let's see if I can get it started again.

My suggestions:
Get with the others and agree on a list of attachments. Have each person set their own prioties on what they must have.
For example:
If you live in snow country it is kinda hard to share a snow plow, unless you are near neighbors. If your are near neighbors this can work real well, as one person can plow both driveways if the other is out of town.

A mower may be used every week and it would be difficult to share back and forth unless you live close. Even then, since it is needed often, you might spend a lot of time moving it back and forth.

Other items are used only seasonally:
The aerator is not used very often and might share well.

Things that are used only for special projects and are very expensive could be shared well. Examples:
Trencher
Post hole digger
Different augers for the post hole digger
Stump grinder.

The trouble with the above is that they all have wear components. Here is where it would be good to have a maintenace fund. When a non-owner uses such a device, he would put some money in a kitty for repairs. Perhaps so much per hole, or so much per foot, or even hour of use. I have had the motors on both my stump grinder and trencher rebuilt because something got caught in the seal. Under $100 in both cases, but this could sour the co-op. Another option is "if it breaks when you have it, you pay for repairs". This is what Clint Blake and I use. This is simple, but if the attachment has been used and worn prior to your use, then it may seem unfair. Of course you can always work out a deal on any specific failure. Still if you know the rule, it makes things easier ato accept.


The grappling bucket and the 4 in 1 are often items of discussion. They are both excellent attachments, but each one is superior to the other at certain functions. They are also fairly expensive. I think these would be really good items for a co-op. They also don't have motors to fail and I think repairs would be fairly inexpensive.
These items might be owned in common, but if somebody moves what do you do.

Other suggestions:
Take a digital picture before and after a loan. This can save a lot of arguments.

In order to help balance things, Clint has purchased a 12 inch bucket for the back hoe. We both have backhoes, so we can move this back and forth pretty easily without stopping normal use.

Attitude: Some people get very concerned if their attachment is scratched, dented, worn, or even used. They should not be in a co-op. You have to accept damage and the fact that things wear out. I figure if my trencher is not worn out before I die, then I have not dug enough trenches for my neighbors.

I hope this helps, but it does seem to get a little complicated. I look forward to comments from others.

Bob Rip

 

[MossRoad]

Don't forget a 1-13/16th inch wrench! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BobRip]

That's a good one. Portable, expensive, and not needed too often.

Bob Rip

 

[MuncyBob]

I like the idea...but as a Pt owner with only 2 attachments I wouldn't fit the "sharing" idea very well...but I would be willing to pay as you go for an attachment that is needed on an occassional basis. A need in the not too distant future for me might be a grapple and a chipper/shredder.

 

[BobRip]

I think a payed user would be OK. So many $ per hour of use or per day.
I expect that you will be getting other attachments soon.

Bob Rip

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A need in the not too distant future for me might be a grapple and a chipper/shredder. )</font>

I'd be interested in occasional access to:

1. Chipper/shredder
2. Stump grinder
3. Trencher
4. Tree shear
5. PHD
6. Winch

I'll likely end up buying/building one or two off that list, but not all...

 

[MuncyBob]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
I expect that you will be getting other attachments soon.

)</font>

I have my list but so many other projects are using up my attachment list $$ /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[marrt]

In general, I like the idea of creating a better marketplace for used PT attachments. I have an 18” auger but no post hole digger (sold the original PHD to the neighbor). I’d like to have a PHD again but don’t have a compelling need at the moment and can’t justify the expense. However, I keep the auger because, someday, I will buy another PHD. In the interim, prices keep going up and I won’t be able to find a used one when I’m ready. If there was a ready market for used PT attachments, I would sell it now and buy a used one when and if I ever needed it again.

The other advantage of a better market is that prices could find their natural equilibrium. When I’ve priced used PT attachments in the past, I find that the sellers usually fall into one of two camps. One group realizes the market for used PT attachments is very small and, therefore, prices the attachment very aggressively so it will sell. Usually this is around 50% or so of current list price. The other group wants to recover as much of the original purchase price as possible and usually charges 80%+ of list. If a good marketplace existed, like eBay has for many items, one could get a “feel” for the reasonable value of the item by watching historical sales prices. This would help both buyers and sellers because a “fair” price would be easier to determine.

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In general, I like the idea of creating a better marketplace for used PT attachments. I have an 18” auger but no post hole digger (sold the original PHD to the neighbor). I’d like to have a PHD again but don’t have a compelling need at the moment and can’t justify the expense. However, I keep the auger because, someday, I will buy another PHD. In the interim, prices keep going up and I won’t be able to find a used one when I’m ready. If there was a ready market for used PT attachments, I would sell it now and buy a used one when and if I ever needed it again.

The other advantage of a better market is that prices could find their natural equilibrium. When I’ve priced used PT attachments in the past, I find that the sellers usually fall into one of two camps. One group realizes the market for used PT attachments is very small and, therefore, prices the attachment very aggressively so it will sell. Usually this is around 50% or so of current list price. The other group wants to recover as much of the original purchase price as possible and usually charges 80%+ of list. If a good marketplace existed, like eBay has for many items, one could get a “feel” for the reasonable value of the item by watching historical sales prices. This would help both buyers and sellers because a “fair” price would be easier to determine.
)</font>
Your perspective mirrors my experience exactly -- I can't sell a used 60" finish mower for 1/2 the price of new, yet when I've gotten prices from others they want 80% of the new price....

So, I've neither bought nor sold any used attachments... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[MossRoad]

Buy it for life! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Boy, wouldn't that be nice if we could all afford every attachement just to have around in case we needed it again?

I tend to buy stuff and keep it forever. But I don't buy it unless I'm going to use it enough to justify the cost. If I had 50 post holes to dig, I would probably skip a post hole digger. However, we have about 4000' of property lines that I would like to fence off as time permits. I can justify it for that.

I could justify the forks because I could see the uses beyond lifting pallets. I use it for digging, bush trasplanting, brush removal, etc...

My least used attachment is now the snowblade, but only because it stopped snowing here as compared to several years ago. I was able to justify it because it use to snow a lot.

Two buckets seemed kind of extravagant. Now that I have them, I think I could get by without the small one, but it is nice to have one with teeth and one without. It is borderline justifiable to me. Time saved taking off a tooth bar VS the few hundred for the bucket... close call. If I had to do it over again, I would still get the large bucket and the 4-in-1.

Brush hog is worth its weight in gold once you put solid tires on the front. I only use it maybe 10 hours a year, but the time savings are fantastic VS any other method of trail clearing. This weekend I spent about 3 hours making 200+ yards of trails through HEAVY brush, re-mowing some existing trails, and clearing out the underbrush in preparation for tree removal where we want to build. Those three hours would have taken 30 hours with chainsaws, loppers, weedeaters, etc...

I guess what I'm trying to say is we need to look at long term investment VS rental. Which one suits the job that you need to do? Knowing that the used PT implement market is small and prices are high for the buyer and low for the seller, we really have to justify the purchases before we make them because we probably won't get our money back on a slightly used implement. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[J_J]

You guys do realize that the seller is usually trying to recoup some of his miss spent money, but if it is just going to rust away or seals dry up, or just lay around and do nothing, you might as well get rid of it. I hate to get rid of things I buy, because most of the time I put some thought into it. Those impulse buys are another thing. Just got to have it right? After two years of non-use, It's time to sell of trade. As we get older, some of us do more, and some do less. That PT package that you have now could be sold or traded for something that fits your needs more.

Now, as the buyer, I would like to buy it for almost nothing. I believe 50 to 80 % is reasonable for used items. If it were not for the shipping, I would have bought things from some of you PT owners. I have stuff now that I may not ever use, For instance, My 6 ft.flail mower for the 1445 is probably a great implement. In some areas, you have to use flail mowers around schools, play grounds, etc. My Dixie Chopper does all of my grass cutting and bagging.

Trading is good, if you live close enough.

Things that I use the most are the things that I make.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> After two years of non-use, It's time to sell of trade. </font>

Say it ain't so! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

My wife says the same thing. Unfortunately, I am of a different mind set. I still have all of my old toys from childhood and every thing else since. It is a mental disorder, for sure. Just keeping track of it all is a hobby by itself. I have everything in a database so at least I can find it if I want it.

 

[funpilot]

When I bought my PT 425 it came with a number of attachments I have never used: Post hole driller, grinder, back hoe, etc. Should I be running oil through them periodically?

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( When I bought my PT 425 it came with a number of attachments I have never used: Post hole driller, grinder, back hoe, etc. Should I be running oil through them periodically? )</font>
IMO, not as long as you're sure they have oil in them now -- i.e. they've been attached and used before....

Or, you could offer to sell them to someone else at a good price so you would no longer need to be concerned... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[funpilot]

Do a search on my posts and you will see I got a number of attachments that were brand new when i bought this unit from Power-trac as used. Still have not used them. Send me a PM if you are interested. Snow Plow, Post hole driller and power head, Boom, plow, come quickly to mind. All new and kept in my shed.