CK20S Cold Weather Start Procedure

[dengar256]

With the CK20S, and the "display unit" timer, the glow plugs will refire after the engine is started.

This would explain things. Once it started getting colder I noticed that the "glow plug" light would come on after start and I thought something was wrong. It also kind of confirms my the start procedure I have been using after some trial and error. Here is what I do.

1. turn key and wait for "glow plug" light to go off.
2. turn key to start and let the engine turn over.
3. if it does not start on second crank or "sounds off" turn key to off.
4. turn key and wait for "glow plug" light to go off.
5. turn key to start and let the engine turn over and just tap the gas.
6. normally the engine will fire and start but run a little rough with dark smoke
7. the "glow plug" light will come on and I tap the gas a little
8. 10 -20 seconds after everything smooths out
9. I let it "fast ideal" for a few minutes to let things come up to temperature.

Thanks to everyone who posted. I am new to diesel tractors and was worried I would hurt something . My last tractor was an old 1951 gas powered beast. I guess I am a little more nervous around my nice shiny 2010 .

Sorry for the long post and thanks again.

 

[VictorW]

I didn't want to hurt my new CK30hst either when the first cold temps arrived. I went from a 1948 Ford 8n 4 cly flathead to the CK. What a difference. After a while, you'll know at about what temp that you need two cycles of the glow plugs to make it purr instead of rattle like the engine is falling apart. I've started mine with the coldest temp at about -3'F. I'm sure a heater would help and be much better for oil flow but I don't have electric in the building. The only thing I do to help that is run 5W-40 oil instead of 15W-40 or maybe some use a 10W-30. Enjoy moving the snow with the new toy.

 

[MichiganIron]

KIOTI technically calls the display unit the CK20S as the Pre-Heat controller. In other models it's referred to as the display unit, and controls a few more features.

It is an electronic control unit. One of the differences in the CK20S is the updated controller, allowing for after combustion heating for up to 20 seconds.

For the CK20S, 150watts is usually plenty.

 

[Gil Case]

Good point about the size of the magnetic heater. There is a rod that goes under the oil pan on the CK20S that does not allow you to use something like the Katz 300 which is 4" by 6". The smaller 200 watt Katz units are maybe 2" by 4 " and fit along side the bar/rod that goes under the oil pan. Works for me.
I assume that the glue on pads would work, but by the time I decided on a magnetic heater, the oil pan had a lot of oil and grime on it, so it seemed easier to go with the katz than do all that cleaning and hope the glue would hold.

 

[jlsanborn]

I haven't had much time lately, but I did look at the NAPA website. They have a 150W unit for not a lot of money. It's adhesive backed tho. You guys think that thing will stick for the long run? I don't have any grime to deal with and if there were, I'd clean it up bone-dry before I applied it. Just wondering if anyone else has experience with the sticky back heaters.
I still think something is crappy. We've had daytime highs in the 40's(F) with overnights in the high 20's. I'm parked indoors, concrete floor, insulated but no heat. It's still just a PIG to start. I've tried a number of methods, none sucsessful.

3 cycles on the pre-heat.....still takes a bunch of cranking, more pre-heat cycles and failed attempts to get it fired.

Excessive cranking after a couple of pre-heats......dosen't work, just fills the shop with diesel vapor. I did notice however that I wait until the indicator goes off, crank, and after what seems like too much cranking the indicator comes back on. If it sounds like it's going to catch and run I let up on the starter and the indicator immediately goes off. Fail.

It does finally start and no method seems better than any other, it just sounds like others have better results. I can't imagine how it might be sub-zero or even in the teens. I also think that a little sticky-back heater is going to have to run for a while to get a stone cold engine ready to run. How long before use am I going to have to plug this thing in?

 

[tulenutn2o]

I haven't had much time lately, but I did look at the NAPA website. They have a 150W unit for not a lot of money. It's adhesive backed tho. You guys think that thing will stick for the long run? I don't have any grime to deal with and if there were, I'd clean it up bone-dry before I applied it. Just wondering if anyone else has experience with the sticky back heaters.
I still think something is crappy. We've had daytime highs in the 40's(F) with overnights in the high 20's. I'm parked indoors, concrete floor, insulated but no heat. It's still just a PIG to start. I've tried a number of methods, none sucsessful.

3 cycles on the pre-heat.....still takes a bunch of cranking, more pre-heat cycles and failed attempts to get it fired.

Excessive cranking after a couple of pre-heats......dosen't work, just fills the shop with diesel vapor. I did notice however that I wait until the indicator goes off, crank, and after what seems like too much cranking the indicator comes back on. If it sounds like it's going to catch and run I let up on the starter and the indicator immediately goes off. Fail.

It does finally start and no method seems better than any other, it just sounds like others have better results. I can't imagine how it might be sub-zero or even in the teens. I also think that a little sticky-back heater is going to have to run for a while to get a stone cold engine ready to run. How long before use am I going to have to plug this thing in?

How many hours on your machine? Maybe glow plugs are bad? Just a thought, my ford 1700 was a pig to start when cold until plugs got replaced.

 

[JoelD]

Sounds like a return to dealer for fix issue

Long story short you should be able to start in just about any conditions you find yourself in

Joel

Although not yet proposed I thought I'd get on the record as saying never ever use starting fluid ever ever

 

[dengar256]

It's still just a PIG to start. I've tried a number of methods, none sucsessful.

Could it be your battery? My father-in-law has a CK30 and it was giving us all kinds of issue starting warm or cold weather. We changed the battery for something with a few more amps and never had an issue. I had similar issues with my CK20s stock battery.

 

[jlsanborn]

Hate to say it, but I also think its a warranty thing. I'm going to get an oil pan heater and see if it will get me through the winter though. I was without for all of last month and just now got my road back down the gravel. It also costs me $150 for a round-trip from the dealer because I don't have a trailer.

I still haven't seen the owner's manual and don't know what useful info may be in there, but it does seem unusual that the glow plugs would come back on while I'm still cranking the starter, or at least the indicator comes back on.

I do love this little machine, but am somewhat frustrated at only 60hrs.

 

[Bousez]

There is a recall on the CK20S 2008 .....some get new glow plugs, some get new controllers.....mine was in the serial for the new controller , and result is.....it did not help at all. It's stil difficult to start even at 32F or 0 Celcius.

My dealer tells me he could surely convince Kioti to pay , to install the new glow plug kit on mine, but....they have to take the cylinder head off the block, and i don't like the idea !
Apparently they install bigger glow plugs,but that is for 2008 tractors only....

 

[JoelD]

I would not worry about them fixing by removing head

Kicking the crud out if your starter is not a good option

Joel

 

[lunbrjck]

Howdy I also have a 2008 ck20s where did you get the information on the recall for the hard starting issues thank

 

[JonKioti]

Hi JL,

I've had the 2007 CK-20HST and now have the 2009 CK-20S HST. The 2007 was stored outdoors through two winters; the 2009 is stored indoors at 14 degrees C.

I have never had a problem starting either tractor in any conditions. Glow plug until it turns off, then normal start. Maybe once or twice I had to glow plug a second time but never more.

I'd ask the dealer if something can be done to cover the cost of transport as this appears to be a warranty issue and that the tractor was just in recently (from what I understand from your post).

Good luck; I'm sure the thing will be fixed and keeping you happy soon enough.

Jon

 

[Iron Art]

My CK20s hst was one of the recalled tractors for hard starting. The dealer took the head off and did some machine work to install larger glow plugs, also increased the on time to 14 seconds on the plugs, In addition he installed a coolant heater in the lower radiator hose which I energize about 1hr before startup in the winter. After these mods, the tractor starts as if it were Summer. All mods were paid for by Kioti. Fred

 

[jlsanborn]

Heard back from the dealer. My tractor does not fall within the serial numbers that were recalled for glow plugs or controllers. The factory tech simply said that engine revisions have been made to comply with emissions standards and therefore are hard-starting. They said that if I picked up a line heater from Napa they would reimburse me. I'm ok with that I guess.

 

[Iron Art]

That heater will take care of your problem provided you have house power available. I energize mine 45 mins ahead of startup for a easy start. Fred

 

[jlsanborn]

So my plan is to go and get a line heater this afternoon from Napa. I just went and had a look at my lower hose to measure it for diameter and was surprised at how short it is. It's basically an elbow with not much straight section on either end. The heaters I looked at seemed awful long and I'm concerned that its not going to fit. Can anyone recommend a line heater for this thing? The dealer said that a magnetic oil pan heater wont work because of the aluminum oil pan (mine is steel)? He also felt that a line heater would put more heat into the head where its needed for starting. After looking at that tiny little hose, then at the oil pan right above the drain bung I'm leaning back towards a magnetic or adhesive backed pan heater.
I still don't know how much power (watts) I should be putting into this thing. If I got something small (25W), would it be silly to leave it pluged in all the time? If I get something that I'll plug in before use, how hot can I go to quickly get some heat into it?

 

[Iron Art]

Jlsanborn, Sent you a PM, Fred

 

[tulenutn2o]

So my plan is to go and get a line heater this afternoon from Napa. I just went and had a look at my lower hose to measure it for diameter and was surprised at how short it is. It's basically an elbow with not much straight section on either end. The heaters I looked at seemed awful long and I'm concerned that its not going to fit. Can anyone recommend a line heater for this thing? The dealer said that a magnetic oil pan heater wont work because of the aluminum oil pan (mine is steel)? He also felt that a line heater would put more heat into the head where its needed for starting. After looking at that tiny little hose, then at the oil pan right above the drain bung I'm leaning back towards a magnetic or adhesive backed pan heater.
I still don't know how much power (watts) I should be putting into this thing. If I got something small (25W), would it be silly to leave it pluged in all the time? If I get something that I'll plug in before use, how hot can I go to quickly get some heat into it?

Something is better than nothing. I was looking at a 200w at O reilly's auto parts today. I would go this route and not worry. I wouldn't leave plugged in constantly. maybe a lamp timer or something.

 

[jlsanborn]

So I picked up a 200W magnetic today, slapped it on and let it cook for about 4 hours. The heater surface is almost hot, the pan is noticably warmer towards the top, the valve cover is cool. It's about 40F here today and its parked inside. It still took two attempts to get it rousted, but once it started it definately smoothed out and cleaned up much much quicker. I've got it on the bottom of the pan and I think I'll leave it burning around the clock. I've got no fear of scorching the oil or anything like that as it seems pretty tame. I'll have a feel and start-up in the morning (hoping for 3-5" tonight!) and will report back.