CK20S Cold Weather Start Procedure

[dengar256]

My new CK20S has been serving me very well this summer but I live in eastern Canada and the cold weather is setting in. I would like to know what your thoughts are on the best / suggested cold weather start procedure. I have looked at the manual but I would like to get some "real world" advise on the subject.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[wallace]

Block heater!

 

[dengar256]

Block heater!

LOL.

It does have a block heater. How long should I plug it in before starting?

 

[Bousez]

90 minutes when it's really cold outside should do it ....

I live near Montreal, my CK20S is a 2008 and has always been hard to start in wintertime .......

 

[JoelD]

Not sure if you have fuel shut off or compression release but good to spin the motor prior to start up in order to circulate oil

Glow plug for 30-45 seconds and gore her up

 

[Dmace]

It gets plenty cold here in central New Hampshire and I've NEVER needed to use the coolant hose heater on my CK20. I have cleared snow in -20F and she started just fine and worked it's heart out after idling for a good 15 minutes.

My starting procedure when it's cold is straight from my dealers mechanic.
-Turn the key to start the glow plugs (only once NO cycling the plugs multiple times)
-When the light goes off, turn the key to start
-As soon as the engine turns over - TURN THE KEY TO THE GLOW PLUG SETTING AGAIN so the glow plugs are on.
Since the engine is running, the glow plugs are not relying on just the battery for power so you won't be draining your battery and they work better.
You should only have to hold it on the glow plug setting for 2-3 seconds and you will notice the rpms smooth out. Works like a charm every time!

It's tough to put it in words, I should just make a video of me doing it...

 

[dengar256]

It's tough to put it in words, I should just make a video of me doing it...

Photo / video would be great.

Thanks everyone for the pointers.

 

[malk315]

Derek-

I do this trick too with my 2006 vintage CK20
I thought I remember reading here though that this trick doesn't work on the newer CK20S models.

The glow plug position on my keyswitch is two clicks from completely off. I turn the key two positions to glow and let the glow plugs timeout just like Derek does. Then I start to crank until turnover, but instead of letting the key come back to the glow position I have to hold it kind of halfway between glow and start (there's definiately spring tension I have to hold against). There's plenty of travel so after start and you let off, you turn back towards start against the tension until you get the glow light and hold. There's little risk of hitting start again and grinding the starter because the glow comes back on pretty quick and I think in my experience I can hold there with glow for quite a bit of time. If the machine hasn't run in a while, I usually hold the glow on until no more unburnt fuel and she's running smooth. Usually when she puffs blue (unburnt I believe) smoke and runs a little rough the glow seems to help smooth it out quicker.

Another thing I do -- when it's not quite so cold, I'll start to crank before the glow times out -- in this case my machine leaves the glow on on it's own, but after the timeout you can still turn towards start I believe to get it to come back on.

Certainly a video is a great idea. Maybe I'll make one sometime -- especially since winter is upon us and I'll be going back to holding the glow on.

My machine is my garage right now. If I can build a shed again (moved to a new house) I will certainly go back to using the glow feature and consider a block heater for when it's ridiculously cold and the poor machine is banished to the shed near the woods!

 

[joe48]

basically same procedure I use, except i hold the glow plugs until white smoke clears 2 or 3 sec. usually enough sometimes longer when close to zero, then bring rpm's up a little past idle and let her warm up. I had to figure out by trial and error.

It gets plenty cold here in central New Hampshire and I've NEVER needed to use the coolant hose heater on my CK20. I have cleared snow in -20F and she started just fine and worked it's heart out after idling for a good 15 minutes.

My starting procedure when it's cold is straight from my dealers mechanic.
-Turn the key to start the glow plugs (only once NO cycling the plugs multiple times)
-When the light goes off, turn the key to start
-As soon as the engine turns over - TURN THE KEY TO THE GLOW PLUG SETTING AGAIN so the glow plugs are on.
Since the engine is running, the glow plugs are not relying on just the battery for power so you won't be draining your battery and they work better.
You should only have to hold it on the glow plug setting for 2-3 seconds and you will notice the rpms smooth out. Works like a charm every time!

It's tough to put it in words, I should just make a video of me doing it...

 

[jlsanborn]

I've got a new 20S and the ignition switch doesn't work that way. The glow plugs burn in the "run" position. The "half way" position dosen't work for me either. The ignition must be returned all the way to the off position to reset the glow timer. My dealer instructed me to cycle the glow plugs a few times before cranking it over. I tried this and it still didn't want to fire. It sat inside my shop (un-heated) overnight. The low was probably 10F. I had a heck of a time getting it going this morning. What's the best engine heater? I had an old N with one inline with the lower radiator hose. Looked like you'd cut a couple inches of hose out in a straight section and insert it. That worked well. I've also seen magnetic oil pan heaters.

 

[JoelD]

You should not be having this problem. you should be able to start without problem in 10F with glow plug properly working.

I run glow plugs for 20-45 seconds depending on how cold it is, then I crank, when she fires I turn key back to fire up glow plugs again, as soon as she smooths out, maybe 2-5 seconds I shut glow plugs down and return key to run position. I've never had a cold start problem. On a couple of occasions she's not fired the first crank, I just run glow plugs a bit longer and then do as above.

Joel

 

[jlsanborn]

Guess I'm not clear on that. My ignition switch has three positions.
OFF/RUN/START
I did notice that the switch legend showed four positions???? I'll snap a photo. I might have something wierd. If I pre-heat, it will fire but it cannot sustain. It'll fart maybe five or six times then die. If I go right back to cranking it won't even fart, I have to pre-heat again. Probably four or five attempts later it'll run.

 

[jlsanborn]

Ok, help the guy out who still doesn't have his owner's manual!

My ignition switch actually does have four positions, but the first two are the same???
OFF/OFF/HEAT-RUN/CRANK
The friggen ledgend shows five positions and is not indexed correctly??? In the attached image the key is as far to the left as it'll go. From what you guys are saying, the ledgend makes sense and I only wish my switch actually functioned that way.

 

[JoelD]

A little tough to make out but looks like you turn to heat then next one is crank and the back to heat run and it somehow know not to contuously heat while running?

Inwould think you should be able to heat while running

Which place do you turn to shut down? All the way to the left or I'll call position one ?

If so you should experiment with turning key to different positions as she's first sputtering

Another way to ask same question is which position energizes the plugs and when?

There's go to be other owners of your machine who can better help

Joel

 

[Dmace]

Ok, help the guy out who still doesn't have his owner's manual!

My ignition switch actually does have four positions, but the first two are the same???
OFF/OFF/HEAT-RUN/CRANK

I also have the older 2006 CK20 so it does look like my starting procedure might not work on the newer CK20S if you can't get the glow plugs to turn on while the engine's running. Maybe a dealer or other CK20S owner can chime in.

 

[jlsanborn]

I have to turn two positions to the right for pre-heat (position 3). All the way to the right is crank, back to position three is run. If I go back to position 2 it shuts down. I always go all the way back to position 1 where the key can be removed though.
I screwed up uploading the picture last time. The one attached now should be clear. In the photo, the key is as far to the left as it will go (position 1).

 

[malk315]

Since today was about 34F here in Lancaster, MA I decided to do a "somewhat cold" start video of starting my machine using the "user selected glow/no glow" once you have turned over the engine.

The cold start video is 23 megs and the warm start is 10 megs. If you are on a reasonable broadband internet connection (3 megabits or more) it should be pretty quick to download and watch these. I'm posting links to them on my own server as I'm assuming TBN probably wouldn't like the larger file sizes for attachments.

Here they are:

http://www.bvwireless.net/ck20_start_videos/CK20_cold_start.wmv

http://www.bvwireless.net/ck20_start_videos/CK20_warm_start.wmv

Enjoy!

 

[Dmace]

Since today was about 34F here in Lancaster, MA I decided to do a "somewhat cold" start video of starting my machine using the "user selected glow/no glow" once you have turned over the engine.

Nice videos, they took less than 10 seconds to download on my cable internet connection.

This is the same procedure I use and it works great! :thumbsup:
I have a feeling the CK20S ignition is different...

 

[MichiganIron]

With the CK20S, and the "display unit" timer, the glow plugs will refire after the engine is started if the display unit sensor reads it as cold. There isn't any need with the display unit controlled tractors to manually hold the glow position after start. The display unit turns the glow plugs off when the key is turned to the start position to make all of the cranking amps available for the starter, but will re-fire the plugs after start if the sensor reads cold.

The 20S is a little unique in cold starting. 30 seconds is too long to run the glow plugs. You can cause pre-mature failure. We tell our customers to try 2 automatic glows with just a bump of the throttle. After that, you can use the 3rd key position (no detent) to manually glow the engine.

We aren't big fans of block heaters. We prefer to warm the oil instead of the block. Warming the block allows the oil retained on the cylinder walls to run faster, and "drying" of the cylinder walls. The CK20 is the only KIOTI Tractor with a steel oil pan. We prefer magnetic oil pan heaters over block heaters. Warms the oil, and circulate warm oil during starting. You have the best of 2 worlds. Low viscosity oil and a warming effect on the block.

 

[jlsanborn]

Is the "display" unit some kine of ECU? If it senses the engine as cold and re-energizes the glow plugs after start, is the indicator on the dash illuminated? Perhaps mine is not automatically re-energizing the glow plugs even though its cold?

What approximate wattage on the magnetic block heater would you suppose?