CK20S Cold Weather Start Procedure

[RADIUM]

I've been following this post, curious is your fuel winterize? In upstate New York area average winter days 18ｰF and down to -5 at night my tractor starts right up sitting outside with two hits of the glow plug of courses different manufacturers but any modern diesel tractor should start quite easily. Try some power service in your fuel the white bottle I'm sure you will find that tractor will start right up with the fuel additive helps boost fuel's effectiveness in the winter not to mention it adds lubrication for your injector pump. One other quick thing your battery should have a minimum of 800 cold cranking amps for quick starts in cold weather, and also using synthetic oil helps the engine turn just some things to try. I posted a video after a debate in the new Holland forms on cold starting procedures it's still listed under new videos check it out I'm going to do another one when it's -5ｰ to show how easy a modern fuel injected tractor starts when properly prepared for winter no block heaters or other support. Take care

 

[jlsanborn]

So this morning that little motor didn't really feel any warmer to the touch as it did with the 4 hour toast. It definately starts easier, but just barely after two whirls and still gags out a ton of smoke for about 15 seconds before it starts to smooth out. I was at Napa today picking up a work light for the rear and spotted the power service mentioned. I haven't been using anything as I was under the impression that this stuff was strictly for anti-gelling in super cold climates. I thought the business on the label made it sound worth a shot so I picked up a bottle. Funny to turn this thing on tonight and find you folks recommending the same thing! I was surprised at the dilution ratio. Only hauling 5 gallons at a whack makes a pretty tiny amount of additive and difficult to accurately dose. I've been trying to sneak a measuring cup out of the kitchen so I can measure 1.6 measly ounces but the cop has had her eye on me. I think she smells a fart. Where did I put that Ratio-Rite?! Anyway, I'll juice her up tonight and run it for a bit while its still warm and let you all know how the cold start program goes tomorrow. We're expecting -7F in the next day or two.

 

[Dmace]

Only hauling 5 gallons at a whack makes a pretty tiny amount of additive and difficult to accurately dose.

Don't be worried about putting a little too much as it only gets better to a point. You can double the dose safely according to the bottle. I use the small scale on the side of the bottle and dump about 2 oz into each 5 gallons of diesel. You'll notice the difference! It's not just an anti-gelling additive but also boost the cetane of the diesel fuel which makes cold starts faster and smoother.

 

[malk315]

I forgot to mention I'm a regular power service user.

After reading up on additives for anti-gel and such, I decided power service was the way to go. The local wal-mart carries it on the cheap and I got the bigger bottle of it.

I snuck a purex glass tiny measuring cup from the kitchen that has oz increments on the side. I put the maximum 3.2 oz per every 5 gallons.

So the video of startup that I did was with my standard dose of power service which I do year round. I've got about 230 hours and never have had any fuel issues. Starts are always fine. I also think now that she has 200 hours on it she's got more power than the first 100 or so. I'm thinking my engine is "dialed in" now and I'm itching to get a snow blower for the rear -- I've been eying the 60" MK-Martin meteor. Though I've seen the video of Derek's blower in action and that thing really moves snow.

My worst case start was last year during 200 hour service I picked up the machine from dealer in Swanzea, NH and it was bone chilling cold (single digit Fahrenheit) where machine was sitting outside. My normal start procedure worked like a charm there too.

I was reading earlier in this post something about revisions to the CK20S engine for emissions. I'm dumbfounded that the glow system and whatever else is involved to get the machine started would be sacrificed in performance for emissions -- especially since the glow is only used on start. If it's a little less emission efficient just on start is that really a big deal? i.e. the tractor spends most of it's time running, not starting -- the emissions should be efficient when I do 1 hours of mowing at 3000 RPMs or whatever -- not when I start it. Oh well.

 

[jlsanborn]

We were -10F last night, but I'm parked indoors - not heated, but insulated. I dosed 5 gallons with about 2oz the previous day and plowed the neighbors out so the PS was completely through the veins. As an experiment, I did not plug in the pan heater. I went out today about 10am with the temp being about +4F. Absolutely miserable. Right of the bat I cycled the glow plugs twice. I cranked for probably 15 seconds before it even snorted. Thereafter it must of took me 10 attempts to get it going and once I did it effin belched smoke, rattled and rumbled for 30 seconds until finally cleared up. It is going to remain cold, although not as cold. I'll put the heat back on and try it again tomorrow. I'd expect single digits. I'm wishing now that I had gotten the line heater instead of the magnetic!

 

[RADIUM]

That's really interesting I think you need to use a little more power service, I usually add some before I start filling the tank that way it mixes better I'm wondering if your fuel has been winterized from your distributor where you purchased it? One other thing even if the battery is new I would still get a larger battery I'm running 1000 cold cranking amps glass mat battery $200 Sears diehard platinum it sounds like a lot of money but when the major storms hits I don't want to be playing trying to get the tractor to start in 6ｰF. So my best advice is add a few more ounces of power service and get a larger battery it will turn the engine faster giving a better result for starting, also check your cable connections at the starter are they tight? Also don't be afraid to hit the glow plugs three or four times to warm up the chamber before starting, I sometimes hit mine three times which automatically cycles about 45 seconds, when I was a kid we used to use ether and still do on some of the old deer to get them running "However Do Not Use It on Your Tractor Modern Tractors Have High Compression It Would Destroy the Engine Do Not Use Ether I Was Merely Explaining How Tough It Was in the Past to Get Tractor Started on Cold Mornings in the new engines you'd end up cracking a piston Absolutely Do Not Use Ether" now that we have that out of the way and I don't have the form police attacked me for giving bad advice ;-) I just remembered something look at the fuel in the sediment bowl is it white and cloudy? That could be the wax falling out of the fuel plugging your fuel filter which would also cause a starting problem, and don't be afraid to give the tractor little throttle to just get it started and then bring it back down, check out this video About : Cold Starting a Tractor

 

[JoelD]

It should just not be this hard to start your tractor

My 2004 starts everytime in the cold

Single digits f and I turn on glowplugd got 45 seconds or so then crank and when she catches I turn plugs back on and she smooths out in about 5-10 seconds

 

[jlsanborn]

I doubled the dose of PS and put about 4 hours on. I parked it inside and stuck the 200W pan heater on. About 24 hours later at about +20F its still crappy! I opened the throttle a bit, cycled the plugs three times...........crank, crank, crank, crank, poof! Thereafter I cycled the plugs once per attempt and it ended up taking about 6 or 7 tries. Each one was close, but not enough to catch. I'm going to get that line heater as thats what the dealer recommended in the first place, but I'd sure like to just leave it burning while the weather is cold. Waiting 30+ minutes to pre-heat just isn't my style!
Thanks IA for the info in your IM. I'll be headed that route and will let you know how it all pans out. That photo would be awesome if its not too much trouble.

 

[RADIUM]

I hate to be a defeatist, you must have a mechanical problem there is no way you should have that kind of problem starting a tractor a line heater is not going to help that much. The only other thing I can think of you must have a bad batch of fuel heavy with water I've had it happen a few times it doesn't really fall out of the fuel it just cause a lot of starting issues and smokes like crazy I hope you solve your problem you really shouldn't have any issues with a new tractor , my 1963 row crop starts easier even without either take care

 

[jlsanborn]

I would have to agree that something just aint right. Kioti suggested the line heater to the dealer and offered to pony up for that. I will do what they asked and also try some fuel from an alternate source. I did look at the filter bowl and noticed nothing unusual - clear and clean. If I'm still struggling I will contact the dealer again. Thanks!

 

[Bousez]

Again for those of you , who do not understand.........2008 CK20S are hard to start, i think some of 2009 have the same problems.....
Some 2008 like mine had a recall on the glow plug timer ......whick helped a bit at cool temperature, but under 32F dow to 0F it did not change a thing.
Some from 2008 had a recall on glow plugs, the cylinder head has to be removed,drilled/bored to allow the use of bigger glow plugs.

My dealer, said that may be we could fight with Kioti to get the new style glow plugs modifications done on mine under warranty.....but then again, i do not like the idea of tearing an engine apart when it runs good....

but, since I'm fed up ....i might go this way...

I'm the mayor of a small town , in Quebec, we bought a DK35 , and it starts way much better under cold temperatures...
I wish my CK20S would start as well

 

[Bousez]

Don't waste time and money on buying chemicals to solve your starting problems ...
been there , done that .

The only improvement i had was with magnet heater, but the best improvement was obtained after installing a blok heater, in the lower hose,
easy job....takes about 40 minutes ....

 

[RADIUM]

I'm sorry and I don't mean to be controversial , that just sounds ridiculous you're telling me his brand-new tractor will not start and it's a known issue and they have not solved it yet??? my tractor has a block heater I've never used it with the cost of electric in New York State, run full synthetic oil get a new battery for your tractor larger than the factory battery so it has plenty of reserve when it's five below and hit the glow plugs four times if necessary and the tractor should start. Now I must admit I was not aware that they're replacing glow plugs with larger ones sounds a little risky to have them pull my head apart in some dealers garage and cut new holes for larger glow plugs I thought new Holland was bad good grief I'd ask for my money back and buy some other color ;-) tractor. What really amazes me all tractors regardless of manufacturers are high pressurized systems not like years ago they should fire right up I would surely ask my dealer to solve my problem or take his tractor back that's just ridiculous take care

 

[jlsanborn]

At this point my thoughts are....

The PS is probably benifical, but I've noticed no difference in cold start performance or otherwise. It is cheap though, and if there is any insurance in that little bottle in terms of anti-gel, added lubricity, etc.... then I'll use it.

The 200w magnetic heater offers some improvement, but not what I'm looking for. It's noticeably easier to fire, but still unsatisfactory.

I think a kick-butt battery would also offer advantage in cold starting. I've got the Napa 65 that came with my tractor. It's a good batt, but I'd bet you see a good voltage drop on a 10 second cold start. A higher capacity / output batt would certainly spool that little engine faster / longer when it's cold. I've gotta talk to the boss about this one! It was quite a debate when it came to the boat battery last summer. She needs a new batt in her ute. Maybe a Napa 65? Just sayin...

Through past experience on my old 8N, a line heater will warm the head and I'd bet you a dollar that I'll see significant improvement in cold starts. I'm on my way, that way. I'm curious however, what could be bad about leaving it "warm" around the clock vs. pre-heating? I can see myself standing there with one hand on the valve cover, tapping my foot and just cranking it to death like I am now to get it going. One could maybe argue some benifit to keeping those parts warm 24/7?

I'd also add that RADIUM is probably correct in that something is not quite right with my rig. If all of these 20s were this terrible to start at +25F this post would be 1000 pages long. What kind of performance am I missing at full temp? What could be wrong?

 

[mj007]

I'm sorry and I don't mean to be controversial , that just sounds ridiculous you're telling me his brand-new tractor will not start and it's a known issue and they have not solved it yet??? my tractor has a block heater I've never used it with the cost of electric in New York State, run full synthetic oil get a new battery for your tractor larger than the factory battery so it has plenty of reserve when it's five below and hit the glow plugs four times if necessary and the tractor should start. Now I must admit I was not aware that they're replacing glow plugs with larger ones sounds a little risky to have them pull my head apart in some dealers garage and cut new holes for larger glow plugs I thought new Holland was bad good grief I'd ask for my money back and buy some other color ;-) tractor. What really amazes me all tractors regardless of manufacturers are high pressurized systems not like years ago they should fire right up I would surely ask my dealer to solve my problem or take his tractor back that's just ridiculous take care

As was said, cycle the glow plugs 2, 3 or 4 times (whatever it takes) before cranking when it's really cold. Even using a hairdryer or heatgun to warm the underhood air works.

 

[dengar256]

Through past experience on my old 8N, a line heater will warm the head and I'd bet you a dollar that I'll see significant improvement in cold starts.

The line heater should do something. It was about -22 C (~ -8 F) the other day and I thought it would be a good day to test my CK20S in the cold. I was tempted to try and start it cold without plugging in my line heater to be more "scientific" but I could hear the ghost of my dad telling me that was a bad idea. I plugged in my line heater and did my chores. 30 - 40 minutes later unplugged the heater hit the plugs once and the tractor started after just a few cranks. A little black smoke but it smoothed out like it was +20 outside.

Very impressed and happy .

Once again thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. This has been very interesting.

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

The farm I worked on in when I was in High School left the chore tractor plugged in 24/7 during cold weather. It was a 1975 Ford 4000 3 cylinder gas engine with industrial loader. It was a distant farm where no one lived. We had to feed the beef cattle every morning. We didn't ever want to wait for it warm up. We would unplug it, use the tractor and plug it back in when we were finished. It didn't seem to hurt anything leaving it plugged in. It sure makes an engine spin over faster in cold weather.

 

[Iron Art]

The way you describe your cold start problems I'm begining to wonder if your glow plugs are even working. Fred

 

[jlsanborn]

After tonight's episode I might think you're right! It's been near 40, dipping to mid 30's overnight. Remember, I'm parked indoors with a 200w pan heater going around the clock and double dosed on the Power Service. My battery isn't the big-boy but it is fresh and strong. My little rig cranks over quite well. Today after work I thought I should clear some of the slush out as we are going to see single digits in the next day or so. Two cycles on the glow plugs, bout 1/3 throttle opening and not EVEN getting out of bed that easy! It took at least five attempts to get it going. As before, a little snorting and huffin smoke each time, but would not catch until like five tries.
How would one diagnose this? I've got a Fluke clamp-on that would show me if there was a load burning during pre-heat. Where is this notorious relay and which wire in the harness feeds those coils? Maybe I'll just see what's pumping on the positive batt cable during pre-heat. I would think each coil has got to be something like 50W to make any heat in 45 seconds. That should show something like 12A or so. Wouldn't that be something?

 

[RADIUM]

There has to be a mechanical failure occurring, is the tractor covered under warranty? It seems as though you're having fuel issue perhaps your pump is on its way out five cranks at that temperature should never happen, is the fuel bowl full? And perhaps you need to replace the fuel filter I've seen it happen before it looks fine but the filter pores are plugged with wax slowing the fuel. The tractor should just start at those temperatures without glow plugs I do it all the time it just takes a few extra cranks to get it running. I really think it has something to do with the fuel, if the battery is turning the engine that fast it should have no trouble starting. One quick question when you're starting the tractor how long do you leave the starter engaged? A neighbor up the road from me was afraid to leave it on he thought it was like a car it should just start within a second, you can't be afraid to hold it for a little while to get her started remember there's no spark plugs it relies on compression to start the firing process. One other thing could it be a safety switch not allowing the tractor to start perhaps a seat switch or PTO switch I've seen this happen on my old TC 40 drove me crazy for two days trying to figure out why the tractor wouldn't start.