CK20 HST tranny issues

   / CK20 HST tranny issues #101  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I would not of paid for 30 hours of work without getting a second opinion. Maybe that is just me. )</font>
I must say that I'm surprised, Mathey, that you didn't come onto TBN and ask about that estimate of time when you were told by the dealer that it would take 30 hours as you stated. Second, third, fourth and 100th would have been forthcoming.

Donnie, sorry, I just used part of your post to make a point. TBN before paying or agreeing is a good idea. There are many dealers on here that would have, before hand, said that's too much for that job.
John
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #102  
I am not sure if Mathey was told that they were going to charge him for 30 hours of labor, or keep his tractor for 2 months.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #103  
I don,t like to get involve but the Kioti flat rate manuel only give you 13 hours for R & R transmission so I fill like 30 hour
is too much.
Our rule is YOU MUST KEEP CUSTOM HAPPY
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues
  • Thread Starter
#104  
How many dealers would give me a price for repair over the phone if I called and said 'my tractor won't move"? I doubt many would even have called me back.

TBN tends to have a skewed view of dealers, since every Kioti dealer here is top-notch and very active in this online community. None of the 8 dealers within 100 miles of me is a participant here.

When the problem first occured, I could have called all 8 dealers and told them what the problem was "tractor won't move, makes a loud noise". I could have looked at the shaft, saw it was not turning (again, provided that a dealer would have told me to check). That narrows it down a bit, but still, the extent of the damage wouldn't be known until it was apart. My guess is that all 8 (including Wertz) would quote me something like "well, without seeing it, it could take 2 hours or 20 hours, we'll have to tear it apart to see". So I chose Wertz, they being local and I'd heard good things about them. They were an authorized Kioti dealer and service center, so I assumed some level of confidence in them and from Kioti.

Of course in hindsight, I would have taken it to someone else, but other than the dealers represented here on TBN, I don't know that any of the other dealers wouldn't have done the same thing, and that includes Travis (again, according to Kioti, is irrelevant). Say one dealer said 2 hours, so I take it to him, he tears into it and then comes back "whoa, its really bad, now it looks like 40 hours". Then what? Do I take a trailer and go pick up the pieces and haul them to dealer B bacause he guesstimated less hours? The analogy is bad, but you get my point.

Would Kioti have given me parts under warranty directly? Somehow I doubt it, they would want word from an authorized Kioti dealer to verify. I have a few friends that are Bobcat mechanics that could have done the work for me, heck, I probably could have done it myself for that matter, but would Kioti take my word for it? Again, hindsight is always 20/20.

Again, going back to Honda...there are probably 30 Honda dealers within 25 miles of my house, I can choose any one of them to get authorized Honda service. When I choose Honda authorized service, I place a certain level of trust in both the dealer and the manufacturer. If I feel that there is some issue with the dealer (warranty work or not) I can go to the manufacturer for support in working with that dealer. They all work from the same book so pricing would almost certainly be very close, and I doubt many would have quoted a price over the phone for anything other than parts.

If Kioti is completely "hands-off" after the warranty has ended, and allows dealers to walk all over their customers (keep in mind, these are Kioti customers , not neccesarily dealer customers) then buying decisions need to be made on post warranty support from a manufacturer. Kioti will suffer if they allow authorized dealers to run rampant without a check and balance system in place, both pre- and post- warranty.

Its also been my experience that even if you call a dealer and tell them exactly what is wrong (provided you know exactly what is wrong), they will still do diagnostics. I took my Corolla in for a new muffler...the old one had the mount rusted off and it sounded like a Harley. I told them it needed a new muffler, yet they wrote on the ticket "car makes loud noise, diagnose noise to muffler, R & R muffler"

I doubt Wertz is going to even notice effects from any sort of negative publicity here...I'd venture to say less than 1% of its customers are active in any online tractor site. I certainy won't go back there, for anything, and I certainly wouldn't recommend them to anyone, but that impact is minimal at best.

The sad thing is, I know what I know about this situation due to the knowledge base of TBN, and the help of some very good people on my behalf. Suppose I was just a "normal" consumer and didn't have this basic knowledge....makes you wonder.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #105  
Donny, I have to agree with a few of your posts on this problem. In my opinion, the dealer caused the problem in this case. Kioti did not overcharge, the dealer did. Is Kioti going to step in every time someone gets over charged or thinks they were overcharged? This is a bad situation and hopefully something can be done. At the very least, Mathey probably will never deal with that guy again and this forum has given some bad press for the dealer, so maybe that's why their rates are high.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #106  
Mathey

Sorry if I came across harsh,
Maybe if you bought the tractor from Wertz in the first place they would have treated you better, maybe not.
Would Travis (I believe that's where you got your tractor) have treated you better, I don't know.
Maybe it did take them that long to fix it, maybe not.

30 hrs is alot of hours, definately.
I don't know how long it should take for the repair ~ 30 hrs-2 months ~ way too long.
Tractorhill says flat rate states 13 hours.

We haven't had a Kioti (our customer or another) in our shop for more than 2 days.
We order the part, if it's not immediately available it comes off another tractor.
(yeah, we'd break one in half if need be)
Tractors fixed, customer is happy and on his way.
Did we charge to take the other part off? Nope.
There is no better advertising than a happy tractor owner.

My thought is, if the dealer is willing to sell a tractor for cheap, do you really think he's going to be there for you after? For how long?

If you need to go to another dealer, call first, make sure the dealership is competent.
If you call here you talk directly to the guy that's going to fix it.
Does he sound like he knows how to correct the problem, Yes.
If not call another dealer.

When you buy your tractor, take everything into consideration.
Dealer competency, location & yes the cost.

Of the 36 CK20's that we've sold, none have been in for anthing but routine service.

Becky
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #107  
Hodak

I agree with DonnyJ also.
And your right, Kioti didn't overcharge and they did compensate some.
If Kioti did this for every customer, then Kioti's would be in the price range of some other tractors.

It is up to the dealers to treat their customers right,
Happy customers, free advertising, sell more tractors
Bigger year-end bonus from Kioti. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Everybody's happy /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Why gouge the customer? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Becky
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues
  • Thread Starter
#108  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Tractorhill says flat rate states 13 hours. )</font>
actually, I heard from someone at Kioti that it's 8 hours

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( (yeah, we'd break one in half if need be) )</font>
really?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My thought is, if the dealer is willing to sell a tractor for cheap, do you really think he's going to be there for you after? For how long? )</font>
again, it shouldn't matter where, from who, or how much I bought from. Kioti says you can get repairs at any authorized dealer. There was another local dealer that stopped selling Kioti's...where would I be if I had bought from him? Say I don't care for any of my local guys, should I then rule out a Kioti purchase completely?

back to Honda - I can buy a Honda anywhere in the US and have it serviced anywhere in the US, and expect the same level of competency. Of course, Honda is a much larger company, but I know I can always get support from them as long as I own it, because the dealership carries the Honda name. I bought a Honda Civic, not a Heritage Civic...just like I bought a Kioti CK20, not a Travis CK20

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
If you need to go to another dealer, call first, make sure the dealership is competent.
If you call here you talk directly to the guy that's going to fix it.
Does he sound like he knows how to correct the problem, Yes.
If not call another dealer. )</font>
I could probably bluff my way through a conversation that would have someone not an expert convinced I was a competant mechanic. I called Wertz and explained the problem, they said they'd look at it...at no time did I ever doubt their competency. They are no furniture store that also happens to sell tractors, they are a major farm equipment dealer and have been since 1910. They were in contact with Kioti from the very beginning. I assumed I was being taken care of by both parties...it never occured to me to check.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Of the 36 CK20's that we've sold, none have been in for anthing but routine service. )</font>
I'd be willing to bet that 99% have never had more than a minor repair...and I doubt there are many dealers that have ever split one.


At this stage, I just need to find out if Kioti is done with my situation so I can move on and persue action against Wertz. I just need to know if I'm doing this on my own, or with some kind of support from the manufacturer.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #109  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( OT: Holy smokes, do you tell the future purchaser that his tractor has been split? )</font>
Yup, we would.
Would you have told Wertz "Oh No, please don't do that I'll wait for the parts to come in, I don't need my tractor for a while"

What's the difference if we split it, replace the part, or if it's assembled by someone in South Korea.
(believe me our guy is more than competent, ask around)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( it shouldn't matter where, from who, or how much I bought from. Kioti says you can get repairs at any authorized dealer. )</font>
You're right, it shouldn't matter, but it looks like there might be some dealers out there where it does.
I'm not saying this is what Wertz did, if that's how long it took, that's how long it took.
It's out of warranty, sucks.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( they are a major farm equipment dealer and have been since 1910 )</font>
Again, I agree, it shouldn't have taken so long.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( There was another local dealer that stopped selling Kioti's...where would I be if I had bought from him? )</font>
We've had 2 dealers just north of us shut down (1 was shut down, the other took Kioti for a ride, yeah he was shut down too.)
We've taken on those Kioti owners.
Treated them if they were our own.
Kioti has since opened a new store up there, but these people are still coming to us.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Say I don't care for any of my local guys, should I then rule out a Kioti purchase completely?)</font>
If you don't buy from your local dealer because you don't care for them, then you wouldn't take it to them for repairs,
you'd call the guy you bought it from, right?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( and I doubt there are many dealers that have ever split one )</font>
For a competent dealership, it's not a big deal to split a tractor
(didn't say it was a fun job)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( At this stage, I just need to find out if Kioti is done with my situation so I can move on and persue action against Wertz.
I just need to know if I'm doing this on my own, or with some kind of support from the manufacturer. )</font>
Have you spoke with Wertz? What have they said?
Have you spoke with the Kioti Rep? What has he said?
If Wertz won't work with you, call the rep. Do you have his number?
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #110  
Have you told Wertz <font color="red"> exactly </font> how you feel about this situation?
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #111  
back to Honda - I can buy a Honda anywhere in the US and have it serviced anywhere in the US, and expect the same level of competency. Of course, Honda is a much larger company, but I know I can always get support from them as long as I own it, because the dealership carries the Honda name. I bought a Honda Civic, not a Heritage Civic...just like I bought a Kioti CK20, not a Travis CK20


Ok, if that Honda dealer overcharged you for work that was out of warranty would Honda manufacturing staighten it out? Doubt it, you would simply go to another dealer. Something else to think of, you will go to your Honda dealer at least 50 times to the 1 time you go to your tractor dealer. They need to treat you right each and every time. Just like you said there are many Honda dealers close to you. Competition keeps the playing field level. I'm not saying it is the correct way to do business. Just offering another reason into what happened at the tractor dealer. They may feel like they won't see you again. Completely wrong attitude if so. If that was the case, they missed a golden opportunity to gain a customer. I'm not saying that is what happened. Just offering another point of view.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #112  
Regarding the Honda analogy: I doubt seriously Honda would tolerate a dealer who routinely ripped off customers. It would hurt their brand and they would at least pressure the dealer to shape up. If it continued I bet they'd figure out some way to drop the dealer. Big companies cannot allow their reputations to be sullied by either incompetent or unfair dealers.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #113  
I doubt seriously Honda would tolerate a dealer who routinely ripped off customers.


We only know of one time with this particular dealer. Everybody makes it sound like it goes on all the time and Kioti is letting it happen. Lets not blow it out of proportion now.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #114  
This post is not directed at Mathey

<font color="green"> "I bet they'd figure out some way to drop the dealer" </font>
They do drop bad dealers, is Wertz really a bad dealer?
We haven't heard his side.
3 sides to every story: His, hers & the truth

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( There was another local dealer that stopped selling Kioti's...where would I be if I had bought from him? )

<font color="red"> We've had 2 dealers just north of us shut down (1 was shut down, the other took Kioti for a ride, yeah he was shut down too.)
We've taken on those Kioti owners.
Treated them if they were our own.
Kioti has since opened a new store up there, but these people are still coming to us. </font> )</font>

I hope the intention here is not to put Wertz out of business.

I think Monday morning I'll be giving Wertz a call.
To get his version or suggest maybe he get on this site.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #115  
I hear the comments about how many CK20s have been sold and how many have been in the shop for repairs.

This problem occured at 450 hours for Mathey(who says he did not work the tractor that hard) and about 250 for me(I say we work the tractor, but do not beat on it).

I will be interested to see what we find when the majority of the CK20s get 500+ hours on them. My hope for Kioti is that this is just an isolated incident for Mathey and I. If it isn't, Kioti dealers will be very well trained on how to split CK20's.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #116  
When I get back to work Monday,
I'll try to figure out what we've got for hours on some of these machines.
But for now, it's Saturday night, one of the nicest days we've had in a long time and the beers are going down pretty good.

Ciao bellas
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #117  
Mathey,
If it's any consolation I would have done the same as you if it happened to me. Its after the fact that everything that transpired from what has happened as to what did happen. You are just one of two that we know of that had this problem and now have to deal with it. There are a bunch of great dealers on here that are (i think) going to step up to the plate to try and resolve this issue not only for you but for the good of the Kioti brandname. I bought from my local dealer because he was the best price and the closest dealer. It was after I got the tractor that I decided that I am going to think long and hard as to where it goes if I need repairs. This is another story that I won't go into now. I still have a good relationship with my dealer and hope it stays this way. Lets just give this some time and see what happens. Lets not paint any villians til you/we all get to the bottom of this. I agree with whoever said before that use it like you always did and maybe even more so if possible and see if this is going to happen again. Probably better to find out sooner than later if something is going to happen while it all fresh in everyones mine. Personally, I think it is probably going to be OK for as long as you own it, whether thats one year or ten years from now.

Steve
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #118  
Donny I agree with you about not letting this single episode with Kioti be exaggerated. My comment to you was in response to your Honda analogy, it wasn't directly about Kioti.
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #119  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am not sure if Mathey was told that they were going to charge him for 30 hours of labor, or keep his tractor for 2 months.)</font>
Mathey posted: </font><font color="blue" class="small">( I was in contact with the dealer almost once a week. It took them about a week to even look at it. Then he told me what the issues were and that it was going to take about 30 hours to repair. )</font>
 
   / CK20 HST tranny issues #120  
Let's let this issue rest for a week.

As Mathey stated Wertz doesn't know there is a problem at this point,
and Mathey should be talking to a Kioti rep this week.

So right now all this commotion is for naught

Becky
 

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