Chinese knockoff saws?

[xyz123]

Serial Numbers

1 at the beginning of the serial number indicates the unit was
manufactured in Germany

2 and 5 would indicate the unit was manufactured in the United States

3 represents Brazil

8 represents China

Where you think those parts come from when it says made from domestic and foreign parts in your stuff. Heck even the pro saws have the China made parts in them.


2005 for this one and they owned the China Zama carb plant longer then that by a long shot too.

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[Hay Dude]

Okay we get it - sounds like you would like all Chinese and other chainsaw spare parts & equipment copiers either close down the shop, or at least not be able to sell anything in USA.

Do you want the same for all other OEM spare part manufacturers who are copying for example car spare parts - or is it just the chainsaws?

Or is it only the fact that they offer a 100% set of spare parts where customer can assemble a complete saw if they wish, or is it that you just don't like chicoms?


I on the other hand want to have some competition for the usually outrageously priced OEM spare parts, whether it's car parts, chainsaw parts or any other equipment we are using!

Some truth and good smack-talk there.

You have to feel for the guy who is trying to make ends meet sawing for a living. Usually we aren’t millionaires. I remember scraping together all my money to buy good saws. Now fortunately I have made enough to buy them without too much concern.
I’ve made my views well known about buying china made products. It’s not so much the product itself, it’s the leadership of the country and what it is doing to the world.

The fact that there’s no viable American made saw is what’s really sad.

 

[xyz123]

Guess where everything we post with here is made at.

 

[Eagle1]

Here are a few of the better known chain saw brands. The made in label only applies to final assembly, parts may be produced in any location or by other third party companies anywhere in the world. Heck Beef from the USA only means it was packaged in the USA, nothing to do with where the cattle was raised or slaughtered.

Stihl chainsaws are manufactured in the United States and China. According to Stihl the production quality is the same from either location.

Husqvarna chainsaws come from many countries. The company has facilities and subsidiaries in Sweden, France, Germany, United States and China. Poulan, Jonsered and McCulloch are all part of the Husqvarna Group.

ECHO chainsaws have manufacturing plants include Japan; Shenzhen, China and United States.

Makita is based in Japan, operates factories in Brazil, China, Mexico, Romania, the United Kingdom, Germany, Dubai, Rwanda, and the United States.

 

[xyz123]

Stihl bigger pro saws made in Germany with foreign and domestic parts. Only the smaller stuff like 60cc range down assembled at VA US.

1 at the beginning of the serial number indicates the unit was
manufactured in Germany

2 and 5 would indicate the unit was manufactured in the United States

3 represents Brazil

8 represents China

Here is a Brazil made 660 and 260 still being made today and get be bought.
See that 3

 

[Hay Dude]

It’s no big news that China manufactures almost everything. The fact that they do manufacture almost everything now is what should should be disturbing.

What would be nice is if there was just a little teensy weensy bit of manufacturing in the USA?

It’s no surprise that some people buy products from not just a sense of what is cheaper, but also who makes it, do they play by the rules of the rest of the world community, etc.

Sometimes you can’t avoid buying from people/places you don’t like. It may be the cheapest, or it may be no reason at all. Heck, some people hate German or Japanese companies….

 

[5030]

The difference between 'Chinese made' and Chinese made' lies 100% in the oversight. If it's made in China with strict oversight, it will be 'almost' as good as the American or European made counterpart.

Good example is cordless, battery operated power tools. Milwaukee and Dewalt are made in China for the most part, but with strict oversight. HF battery powered tools are also produced on the same production lines but in the past with minimal oversight, which has changed in the past 5 years, hence the HF tools are as good as the Milwaukee or Dewalt counterparts for the most part and the prices of them reflect that oversight.

Having said that, if the Chinese are left to their own devices, ie: no oversight, their products tend to be junk and that falls into the realm of cheap chainsaws among other products.

Far as the comment about N plants, I don't consider lowest bidder built N plants to be all that good anyway, especially the boiling water reactors built by Babcock and Wilcox but that is for another time and really has nothing to do with chainsaws.

 

[xyz123]

My USA Ohio made Rocky duty boots moved to China many years ago. I prided myself in making that trip when needing boots.
Last time there. I bought one last pair of each. The USA made ones were 150 and the China ones were 60. Both bought at Rocky shop in Ohio.
China one lasted longer then US made one I hate to say.

But IMHO it all has to do with the rich CEO's etc getting richer lining their pockets. Has to do with profits to be made nothing more. JMO.

 

[Hay Dude]

My USA Ohio made Rocky duty boots moved to China many years ago. I prided myself in making that trip when needing boots.
Last time there. I bought one last pair of each. The USA made ones were 150 and the China ones were 60. Both bought at Rocky shop in Ohio.
China one lasted longer then US made one I hate to say.

But IMHO it all has to do with the rich CEO's etc getting richer lining their pockets. Has to do with profits to be made nothing more. JMO.

You are right. China is merely a place where we can manufacture what was once made in USA in a much cheaper place. As far as the stuff made by Chinese companies go, I am “out”. Won’t buy unless no other choice.

I guess I have mixed feelings about non-chinese companies manufacturing in China. Americans loose jobs, the middle class shrinks, we loose our edge and efficiency at building things, etc. All that and a small handful of people get wealthier while the great unwashed loose more and more job opportunities.

Really makes you wonder how the death spiral we are in will finally turn out.

 

[xyz123]

You are right. China is merely a place where we can manufacture what was once made in USA in a much cheaper place. As far as the stuff made by Chinese companies go, I am “out”. Won’t buy unless no other choice.

I guess I have mixed feelings about non-chinese companies manufacturing in China. Americans loose jobs, the middle class shrinks, we loose our edge and efficiency at building things, etc. All that and a small handful of people get wealthier while the great unwashed loose more and more job opportunities.

Really makes you wonder how the death spiral we are in will finally turn out.

When covid hit thats when some woke up because of shortages of getting parts from abroad.
Like all our chips for our cars etc come from China etc. Why there would be rows of them stored in fields and parking lots.

Why we now have a monster chip factory being built south of me.

Intel announces delay in completion of $20 billion Ohio computer chip plant. Target had been 2025; ground was broken in September 2022 outside Columbus and company now references ‘3-5 years’ from groundbreaking​

 

[5030]

Another really good example of made in Taiwan or China is the Grizzly line of power tools. Grizzly has strict oversight in their production of tools and the quality of them rivals what was made here as well.

I happen to own a Taiwanese made floor lathe and it's as good as (almost) as my LeBlond Servo Shift floor lathe and it cost appreciably less simply because of the wage difference. Interestingly, the offshore lathe had Reischauer bearings and gear sets in it even though it was made 'over there' The major difference between the two are the quality of the castings and the final finish (the LeBlond's castings are of finer quality and the have more attention paid to the final finish of the castings but accuracy wise, they are equal.

Why it's good to practice discretionary diligence when buying anything from Amazon or Veyvor or any retailer that their products are sourced offshore because they will still sell sub standard products (with no oversight) if they can get away with it.

I purchase a lot from Amazon, but I always look to see where it's made and I also look to see if that product is TUV or ISO certified before buying. Same applies to Veyvor. In fact I just bought a Mag drill from Veyvor for hundreds less than the American made Hougen counterpart. Hard to tell the difference other than cost.

Far as saws go, the Neo-Tech and the Holtzma or whatever it's called are made with no oversight so they are cheaper and while being a copy of say a Stihl, the overall quality and fitment won't be on par with the Stihl simply because of the fact that they were made with no oversight. How it plays out and it's also reflected in the purchase price.

 

[Hay Dude]

When covid hit thats when some woke up because of shortages of getting parts from abroad.
Like all our chips for our cars etc come from China etc. Why there would be rows of them stored in fields and parking lots.

Why we now have a monster chip factory being built south of me.

Intel announces delay in completion of $20 billion Ohio computer chip plant. Target had been 2025; ground was broken in September 2022 outside Columbus and company now references ‘3-5 years’ from groundbreaking​

Yeah it’s a long time comin.
We can’t go on forever being spoon fed by the chinese like a baby in diapers.

Let’s hope we follow up on chip factories with some basic pharmaceutical factories, too.

Might not be a bad idea to start steel & metal production for when WW-3 gets goin, either.

 

[Hay Dude]

John Deere builds an amazing amount of tractor parts & assemblies in China and they are pretty well built. I have 3 10 year old Chinese made John Deere gearboxes as proof.
Friend of mine has a 100HP Deere tractor with chinese made stuff all over it and few problems.
The key is manufacturing oversight and strict quality standards by companies like Deere.

 

[xyz123]

Thing that burns my biscuits. Is stihl husky makita and bet rest use china for their parts supply too.
They use the cheaper labor but we still pay the OEM prices for our parts here made there.
They just line their pockets with profits and charge us the same cost.

Just a few oem parts to get the idea.

 

[5030]

Without getting into a long winded comment about profits, let me say that the production cost to produce tie rod ends and what they actually retail for would really burn your biscuits. I used to deliver strip steel to TRW steering systems and when I found out the production cost to make, versus the retail cost to buy, I was in total amazement.

Lets just say that I was in the p[lant and spied a full container of finished tie rod ends that looked just like the ones I had just replaced on my Ford F350 and when I found out what they cost to make versus what I had to pay, I was amazed and somewhat teed off at the same time.

In reality, it's all about markup and the more times a certain part (or any part for that matter) changes hands, every set of 'hands' marks the it up because every set of 'hands' has to make a profit.

If consumers actually knew what a part (any part) costs to make, versus what it sells for, everyone would be an unhappy camper. Your parts are no exception and that is why China is a desirable place to produce hard goods, simply because there is more gleaned profit there.

Believe me, just because it's 'on sale' means nothing.

How about 40 cents to produce the part but a pair of them even at a discount auto parts store retailed for $75 bucks a pair. 40 cents to make versus 75 bucks to buy, leaves a whole lot of room for markup. Everybody is making money and lots of it at your expense as the end user.

 

[5030]

Why I'll never buy a new car or truck. Bad enough buying them off lease. I bet it costs about 25% of the sticker price to manufacture a complete vehicle today, everything factored in.

I'm a firm believer in buying off lease simply because I believe in letting the first owner / leasee take as much of the depreciation hit as possible. As a rule, I can buy off lease for about 50% of the sticker price.

Last buggy I bought, I saw the sticker and it was 26 grand, I bought it for 11 grand and still under factory warranty as well. Even 11 grand was too much, knowing what I know.

 

[JasperFrank]

I'm a bit surprised by this thread. Is the USA still enforcing any sort of intellectual property? Or did corporations just give up on filing patent infringement suits? Is it just more cost effective to let the clones in? Under license is one thing, but does China even have a court to address an infringement?

 

[5030]

Not a clue and I personally hold 2 patents but in reality they aren't worth the paper they are printed on because if the Chinese wanted to, they'd copy my stuff in a minute. My only defense to that is I keep my prices low enough to where they cannot realize any profit from them.

The days of Patent infringement are long gone, IOW the Chinese don't care.

 

[yomax4]

I worked for a Manufacturer some years back. One of their signature products were popular plasma cutters. Soon the torch consumables started showing up on ebay shipping from China for half price. Of course being a knock off with less hafnium, very poor copper and even worse longevity. The lawyers went after them and China response was go ahead and sue us. So they did. thousands later they gave up. There was no way to sue a Chinese company from here at that time. It was around 2006-2008

 

[Hay Dude]

I worked for a Manufacturer some years back. One of their signature products were popular plasma cutters. Soon the torch consumables started showing up on ebay shipping from China for half price. Of course being a knock off with less hafnium, very poor copper and even worse longevity. The lawyers went after them and China response was go ahead and sue us. So they did. thousands later they gave up. There was no way to sue a Chinese company from here at that time. It was around 2006-2008

Another reason to stop buying their **** before it’s all there is left to buy.