Charging problem

gbirky · Apr 29, 2002

Soundguy and Keoke,

Thanks for all the discussion. I found it very useful. I still don't understand how this thing must work - and I doubt we'll know for sure. The explanation of the two possibilities - elegant, and dirty but simple - both went over my head.

To answer a few more questions: I actually have two YM1110D's. This one had half of the wiring fried, but still intact enough for me to figure out how it was wired. I rewired it. The other one works, and is wired the same.

That said, I can remove the VR from the tractor that works to make sure this one does also. I will of course get the OEM part to fix it.

Greg

gbirky · Apr 29, 2002

Bruce,
Thanks for the part number. Do you have any specifics on this part other than it is a B+ type regulator. By the way I don't know what "B+ type" means.

If you could provide some type of drawing to show how it would integrate into a charging system such as the one on this tractor, it would be very useful indeed.

Greg

normde2001 · Apr 29, 2002

Jim, what did you do about your alternator/regulator problem? As I recall, you started this thread sometime last week.

Soundguy · Apr 29, 2002

If you do have a regulator to swap with, that is a good place to start trouble shooting. Also, check the voltage levels ( raw ) at the other dc generator and see if it is also getting 30vac with no reg attatched ( noot hooked up to the rest of the system of course ).

My guess is, is that if you have a working model to compair to, and it is wired as your diagram shows, that your 'regulator' is probably shunting the excess ac voltage ( possibly through a load ( resistor ) to ground... Without further info.. hard to say.
But in any case.. with a working comparison model, you should have no problems isolating the failure.

Soundguy

Keoke · Apr 29, 2002

Greg, the bottom line is that IF your system is wired as shown and the VR is disconected, the system should charge at MAX current. This is only IF you have a good alt and the wire "R" is well connected to bat B+.
The VR in this system can only work as a "trimmer" system dumping excess voltage to gnd through a hi wattage resistor. In no way is the VR in the position to shut the alt down completely. Disconnect the VR and see if system works, if it doesn't, forget the VR and look at alt and circuit wiring to bat.

cheers,

jimstractors · Apr 29, 2002

Norm:
I haven't done a thing yet. I have been amused at how far this thread went. It's very educational, and goes to show how much knowledge some of these guys have. I sell Yanmars, and took a reg. off a junk 1401d, but that didn't work either. I guess both might be bad. I might eventually try another, or just buy a new reg from Len Shaffer.
Jim

bruce1966us · Apr 29, 2002

The regulator has 3 terminals. Two are labeled B+ and connect to the two wires coming off the generator(dyno). The last terminal connects to the + battery post. I connect the last terminal to the ignition switch so that the regulator is only connected to the battery when the switch is on.

Thanks,
Bruce

gbirky · Apr 29, 2002

Bruce,
"Two are labeled B+ and connect to the two wires coming off the generator(dyno)."

Do you mean the two AC wires of the generator?

Because I have two wires from the "alternator" - but they really come from the diode bridge - one is DC, the other AC.

If the two B+ are the AC wires of the generator, then this regulator includes the bridge rectifier (diode pack) as well as the regulator. Do you know if it includes the rectifier?

It sounds dirt simple if this is the case. The 15 Amps is way more than my alternator puts out.

Greg

bruce1966us · Apr 29, 2002

Yes, 2 AC wires from the generator. Kohler also offers a 5 amp regulator that I have used with small units like yours. I will look up the specs on the regulator when I am back at the shop tommorrow. I really like things dirt simple as I am sure most everyone does!!

Thanks for listening,
Bruce

gbirky · Apr 30, 2002

Bruce,
THANK YOU! I am an engineer, who unlike many, believes that the simpler the solution, the better - provided it gives the desired result.

SIMPLE IS ELEGANT! At least in my book.

Thanks again,
Greg

jimstractors · Apr 30, 2002

Bruce:
Would the Kohler reg work on my 1401d (ac alt output)? Does it convert to DC, or do I need to use a bridge in between?
Jim

gbirky · Apr 30, 2002

Jim,
That was the purpose of my last question. The Kohler reg includes the bridge diodes. So this will work with your YM1401D as long as the two wires from the alternator are the AC outputs - which I believe they are.

The easy way to tell is to unplug the alternator, then put a volt meter on the leads with the engine running. Check for DC - should be zero, and for AC - should be about 30 volts. If so, then the diode bridge is in your VR. Use the Kohler. I attached a diagram.

Greg

Soundguy · Apr 30, 2002

This sounds like the best soloution. Having only the reg hit the bat. as a charging line. Better than the extremely wasteful way it is set up now, shunting excess power, etc.

Soundguy

""The regulator has 3 terminals. Two are labeled B+ and connect to the two wires coming off the generator(dyno). The last terminal connects to the + battery post. I connect the last terminal to the ignition switch so that the regulator is only connected to the battery when the switch is on. ""

jimstractors · Apr 30, 2002

Greg:
From the beginning of this thread I mentioned that I thought my alternator is good, because I get exactly that: zero DC volts and 30 AC volts. I just ordered a Kohler reg. from jackssmallengines.com for $36.82 + $5.00 shipping, no tax. Their part # ST435081. I will let the thread know if that solves my charging problem.
Thanks,
Jim

Keoke · Apr 30, 2002

Greg, from the begining of this thread you indicated your alternator had it's diode bridge inside the alternator and not in the regulator; as most small alternators do.
Your wiring diagram shows a full wave rectifier inside the alternator and not in the regulator. Have you now changed your mind on the diode bridge location?
Help, I'm confused!
Greg, if the Kohler unit is for permanent magnet field alternators then it is not really a voltage regulator at all since it does no voltage regulation. It is, instead, a straight AC to DC rectifier bridge. It looks like the amperage of this alt is so low it does not need any charging output controls.

cheers,

gbirky · Apr 30, 2002

Keoke,

You are correct in that my alternator does have the diode bridge in it. I was trying to address Jim's problem with his YM1401D - which does NOT have the bridge rectifier. I believe his is in the regulator. I know his regulator is a different part than mine, and is about $40 more than mine new from Yanmar.

My alternator and diode bridge are working, but the regulator is not. The fact that there is one means that the designers decided it was necessary - and isn't a rectifier. Of course I have not yet figured out what the regulator does.

If you are correct, and the Kohler unit is only a bridge rectifier, then of course it adds nothing to my solution - I already have a rectifier. More importantly, will it work for Jim if it is only a rectifier and does no regulation?

Can we figure out what the Kohler unit does???

Bruce??

Greg

Soundguy · Apr 30, 2002

Ok.. now I'm confused.. you saw that you have a working rectifier inthe alternator ( generator. ) but you are getting 30vac as a reading?

Lets re-visit this.

Soundguy

jimstractors · Apr 30, 2002

Kohler defines the part as a "Voltage Regulator", so I assume it regulates and rectifies.

gbirky · Apr 30, 2002

Guys,
Lets slow down here. We are talking about two different systems here, and creating lots of confusion.

Jim has a YM1401 which has an alternator without the rectifier (diode bridge). His must be in the regulator. He gets 30VAC, zero DC, from his alternator. His regulator does not work.

I have a YM1110D, which has the rectifier on the back of the alternator/generator. My regulator also does not work. However, I have DC already, and just need the regulating function.

The YM1401 and YM1110 use different regulators. The one for the YM1401 is about $100, while the regulator for the YM1110 is about $60.

Now I can always use the Kohler regulator by simply bypassing the rectifier on my alternator. I just unsolder the winding leads from the diode pack, and solder on leads to connect to the regulator.

The question remains - is the Kohler "regulator" just a rectifier? Or does it regulate charging somehow?

If it is just a rectifier, it does me no good, but may help Jim. Though I think we should know more before we assume that Jim can use this Kohler part. I think the YM1401 regulator is both rectifier and regulator, so if the Kohler only rectifies, then it is only half(?) of the solution.

Greg