Backhoe Case 480C ate the dipstick

[SteveUSNY]

I was wondering if anybody had this problem. I went to check the oil level in the transaxle and the top plug had a hole and no dipstick. Where did it go? My worst fears came true, it was in little pieces at the bottom of the gear case along with 3 chipped teeth off the big bevel gear.

Also my manual says to use DOT3 brake fluid but on the web everybody says to use hydraulic oil. Do I use the DOT3?

The forward / reverse transmission in the manual says to use hydraulic oil but i drained W90 weight oil. Use hydraulic oil?

I bought a Case 480 at an auction that has water in the engine oil last fall. Can't wait for warmer weather to start working on it.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[DJ54]

I have a '79 480C, and it uses brake fluid in the mc's. It's been a while since I redid mine, and can't remember if they went to hydraulic oil at a serial number break on the 480C, or on the next series 480.

I'm assuming the forward and reverse trans you speak of is where you check the fluid just ahead of the upright loader frame. That would be TCH fluid, or equivalent there.

If ever you need brake parts for it, check prices, then check here: Remanufactured Transmissions, Torque Converters, Engines - Joseph Industries 3 years ago, their prices couldn't be beat. I got one master cylinder from them, and one parts dealer told me I got it cheaper than he could buy it. I think at the time they were right at $58 and change.

The metal brake lines that run from the master cylinder, to the flex brake line are pretty pricey from Case. Seems they were $75 each. I bought a brake line making kit, and made my own from the NiCopp line. And the short flex, that goes from the metal line to the brake cylinder is a dealer item only. If you would happen to ever need one, get it through Case/IH Ag., they are $10.00 less than Case Construction.

 

[SteveUSNY]

Thank you for the quick response and info. Yesterday I took the brakes off and they were not full of oil but were quite greasy. It looks like I need to replace the the shaft seals. Is there any trick to doing that? Yesterday I thought that all the bolts were out of the diff lock but it wouldn't come off. After 2 hours and looking at a u-tube video and counting holes looking for an alignment pin, I counted 6 holes but I had only 5 bolts removed. The 6th bolt was a socket head c'sunk that was flush with the housing. I felt quite foolish after that. I learn something everyday

 

[DJ54]

If you can swing it, get an OEM service manual. There are several on ebay at the moment. A little pricey, but once you get one, you'll not be sorry. There are brand new reprints on there for $132.00 that look pretty nice, with binder an all. If you open that ad, and scroll down, you can see how well they are illustrated, and have step by step instructions, along with actual pictures of the machine, not a lithograph.

The diff lock on mine was frozen up going through the housing. Took it off, and soaked with penetrate, then gave it a good dose of never seize.

No real trick to replacing the seals, other than getting the screws out that hold the bull pinion shaft bearing and seal cage. They are a large Phillips head, counter sunk screw. They are only torqued to 15 in. lbs.. I used one of the hand impact drivers with bits to get broke loose. I replaced them with the hex drive type. I'm pretty sure they are a 3/8" screw. Much easier to re-install to the torque setting, and not having the bit cam out in the Phillips head, even though it was only 15 in. lbs.

That, and getting the bearing/seal cage back over the bull pinion shaft, without inverting the seal, when sliding it back in, over the splined shaft. The manual calls for using a thin shim stock to wrap around the shaft to do this. I posed this question on a forum back in 2010 when doing the brakes on my 310B. A retired heavy equipment mechanic told me to clean the shaft well with solvent, then starting just to the inside edge of the shaft where the splines end, and the smooth part where the seal rides, wrap with electrical tape. wrap the tape to the outside end leaving a pig tail, then coat with oil. Slip the cage over it, being careful not to invert that lip. When it is in place, and secured, get hold of the pig tail, and pull the tape off. It will unfurl slick as a button.

Also only do one side at a time, or it will let some internals drop.

Mine has the full cab ROPS, with no glass. They made a kit with vinyl borders, and plastic windows that snapped on for a seasonal cab. To make it easier to access the brake chamber on the right side, I removed the fender. Cab was held up by a chain hoist on a beam in my shop. Sure made it a lot easier to work on.

No need to find a parts manual, as Case Construction has one online: Official Case Construction Equipment Online Parts Store and Parts Look Up. Parts for Case Equipment and Construction Equipment. Parts Store for Case Wheel Loaders, Case Excavators, Case Skid Steers, Case Original Parts. I've already got it to the 480C manual, just select which function group you want to look at. Great to look at if you don't have the service manual handy, and want to see what the internals of something looks like. And, if you select a dealer, it will give the part cost at the dealer. Also, if you want to shop for aftermarket parts, you can copy and paste the part number to a search engine, and shop online, and compare prices. And as mentioned above, some parts are used on Ag. tractors, and parts are 10% less going through an Ag. dealer.

 

[SteveUSNY]

DJ54, Thank you for your great response. I do have the manuals but they take the whole gearbox apart to change the seals. Did you change the 2 nd seal between the two shafts at the dif lock end? It looks like you would have to pull the shaft out to get at it.

What a great tip on installing the seal over the splined shaft. I will definitely will use that one. Is there a place on this forum for "tips & tricks"? That idea would be great there. People on this site have sooooo much knowledge that we all could use.

Are you happy with your 480? Are there any quirks that you have found? It looks like a good machine and I can't wait to get it running. There is more background at http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-member-introductions/355175-hi-new-post.html

 

[DJ54]

I had to go look at the exploded view, as my memory had trouble recalling exactly what I did. I know on the 480C, the seals in the carrier were not leaking. I did take the brake assembly apart, and cleaned, and replaced springs, ball bearings in the expanders. Discs and brake bands were in good shape, so with a good cleaning, I put it back together.

I can seem to recall any seal on the diffy lock. I did spray penetrating oil on it to get it broke loose, and coated the shaft with never seize. I remember doing that, but beyond that, my mind is a blank at the moment. Maybe because I've working on so many other things since then, LOL...

Yes, I've been pretty happy with it. It would be great if it had wobble sticks, not a fan of three levers and foot swing. I leaned on a Ford 4 stick, and loved that. I found a used wobble stick conversion for it right after I bought it, but believe he wanted a cool grand for it. A little out of my ballpark, so I just keep telling myself, 3 sticks are better than a #2 Razorback... And in case you're not familiar with what that is, it's a brand of round point shovel.

The only thing I don't like, and do understand it's not the machine's fault, but when digging, and swinging, it will divert oil to the easiest function. Pretty sure that's because the control valve body needs new seals. If I used it everyday for a living, it would be fixed. For what I do with it, I can live with it.

And one other thing... The PO apparently never hardly greased it. Bushings are worn pretty bad for only 2500 hours. Mainly on the swing cylinders. I just need to allow for a little windage, and elevation.

I love the fact it's basically a light 580. 2000 lbs. lighter, and I can pull it with my 1 ton dump, and tri-axle trailer.

I think you'll like it.

 

[SteveUSNY]

It is so nice to talk to someone that has a 480. I understand that they are not that popular. I was at an auction when it came up for bid and I had no intention of bidding but the price was not bad. I never looked very close at it but I knew I wanted to upgrade to a Case. I didn't even realize it had an extend-a-hoe until after I won the bid.YAHO! I didn't know about the 480, thought they only made 580's. I know the 580 won't fit in my garage but the 480 does. I understand the 480 has less power but I only use it for around the house, transplanting pines and snow plowing and what ever else comes up. My wife says I kiss it good night.

The engine has water in the oil and I can't wait to tear into it to find out what the problem is. Researched the net all winter getting ready. I think I will be very happy with the machine.

The shaft seal I was referring to is on the right side behind the dif lock. The shaft sticking out of the gearbox has a shaft inside the shaft or 2 shafts. There is a seal between the 2 shafts and I think the shaft assembly will have to come out of the gearbox to replace it. Not knowing what all is wrong with the machine as a whole I think I will clean the grease off the brake linings and put it back together, fix the engine and then run it to see what else is wrong. I can always go back and redo the brakes. When the gearbox ate the dip stick, it chipped the big bevel gear in 3 places and depending how it runs I may have to replace it so I could replace the seals then.

I am extremely cautious taking this apart because I don't want to break anything. Everything cost so much. I saw a swing cylinder for $1000 on eBay...........OUCH. I noticed that my swing cylinders are warn on the top of the chrome shaft by the boom had lowered due to wear and was rubbing on the shaft. Hopefully not a problem.

The power steering pump did not have any fluid in it. The brake master cylinders were empty. That fluid went somewhere. I just retired in Jan 2016 so this will be a fun project.

Thanks for all your information DJ54.

 

[DJ54]

If the brake fluid went somewhere, it could be the metal lines leaking. I bought a kit to make the NiCopp lines, and it, and the roll of line paid for itself just making those lines. At the time, the ones from the MC's to the connection at the front of the floor pan were $75 ea. They show them now, N/A. The straight one from that connection to the half steel, half rubber flex line are now $106 ea. The like 8" flex line is around $52. It appeared they had replaced one on mine recently, so only needed one. As luck would have it, someone had a new OEM one on ebay for $10. It pays to run part number there too..!!

I do remember putting both slave cylinders on. Case no wants like $106, I found 2 different aftermarket suppliers that have them for $39 ea. I looked on the Joseph site, and they did not list them. It seems I got them from them though. Just because they are not listed, doesn't mean they can't get them. They don't list prices, so you will need to call. They have pretty knowledgeable parts folks there.

Anytime you want to price compare, when you bring up a part on the Case site, by clicking on the part number itself, a picture of the part and description will appear in a separate window. At the top of that block that appears will be a box that says check price. Another window will appear that says select dealer. Enter your zip, and dealers within a certain radius will appear. Select one, then after that, the price will appear when you click on a part. Be prepared for some sticker shock.

To search for aftermarket parts, copy and paste the number to a search engine. I have the best luck with Google.

You'll also notice in the electrical harness, there are numerous relays. These will be the rectangular, two stud, with two hole mounting strap on the back. Case wants anywhere from $18-$20 each, depending on amperage. I got the same amp breakers at Advance Auto Parts for $3.59 ea. They are Bussman brand, not some knockoff junk.

I'm not sure what you have in the area for hydraulic shops. I've got a great one fairly close. Any leaking cylinders I had, I took to them, and they rebuilt them for $75 each, with warranty. Kits are probably near $40 now through Case, so not worth busting my knuckles for $35. But, they also offer re-chroming, or, making a new ram. If the tube/barrel isn't damaged, I'd think a re-chrome, or even a new ram would be less than a grand.

Those 188 engines are near bullet proof. Hope it's a simple fix. We had a 450 crawler with a 188 that had over 7500 original hours before one of the guys in the county we were working in didn't check to oil for a couple of weeks, and spun a bearing in it.

I'll try to keep an eye on this thread, and see how you're getting along. Enjoy...

 

[SteveUSNY]

Thanks again for the great info. It snowed last night and it will be cold for at least another week so outside work will have to wait. Today I am working on the instrument panel plastic windows, they yellowed and after watching a u-tube video I will finish sanding with 1500 grit and spray with clear coat to fix. It is all fun.

 

[SteveUSNY]

JD54, Here is an update. Spent most of summer fixing brakes. Finally had to buy new master & slave cylinders, and used DOT5 brake fluid to avoid the corrosion. I now have the engine apart with the piston sleeves out, one of the o-rings was cut. 3 pistons had broken top ring. One piston it self was broken between the top and middle ring. In talking with many people, I am quite certain that the water (rain) that was in the oil came in from the intake not being covered and the exhaust pipe funneled into the manifold. I am about to order a engine rebuild kit from Agkits.com. Have you heard any good/bad things from this company? Here is a video of my machine Case 48C backhoe - YouTube

 

[DJ54]

Ouch, too bad about the engine. I've never dealt with, or heard anything about AgKits. did a quick Google search, and there seems to be complaints of customer service, rather than parts themselves.

Did you call Joseph Industries, I put the link in for above..?? I know their customer service is excellent, and would think they may match AgKits price. Won't know until you call.

Personally, I prefer to get a sleeve kit, and gasket set at the best price. As far as the rod & main bearings, I get them through a local shop. I have the crank checked, and if it needs turned, let them order the bearings. If you have a problem, you deal with someone local, and get the problem resolved. You really don't know what bearings you need, until someone checks it anyway. I also let the local shop align the wrist pin bushings for a good fit. Just personal preference. It may cost a few dollars more, but, a lot less expensive, and time consuming if something isn't right.

Good luck..!!

 

[SteveUSNY]

I bought the brake cylinders at Joseph's per your recommendation and asked about engine rebuild kits. They don't supply them. Too bad because I was very happy with the parts they did supply.

The bearings were original and not in bad shape which leads me to believe that the hour meter at 2610 hours is correct. I checked the crank and it mikes right on spec values so I'm confident that std bearings will be AOK.

You won't believe this story but my wife and I were on the road that the previous owner of the backhoe lived on so we stopped to see if he had the intake weather cap laying around. He didn't, but he said, "OH! I do have the back window for it". WOW! What a surprise. I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. There were two rollers and shafts missing, of which I have finished making.

 

[DJ54]

Glad you were happy with their parts. Strange they said they didn't handle OH kits, it shows that they do.  - Joseph Industries Maybe they haven't updated their pages in quite a while.

Good to hear you can check the crank, and journals are still in specs. A good while back, I read in one of a gazillion threads on OH kits, that there are only 3 companies that make them for all vendors/brands. I don't recall anyone saying that any of them were not any good. So, basically, it boils down to price, and cost of shipping. How they treat the customer fulfilling the order and shipping would be seen after the order was placed. I guess you can take the chance, then let us know how things went. Just like me suggesting Joseph Industries, I couldn't have asked for better service, and parts for the price.

 

[SteveUSNY]

Thank you for your reply. When I had Joseph's on the phone and I ordered the brake parts, I asked about the OH kit and the guy also asked someone else there and they both said no. But your link clearly shows different. I will have to call again. Also good to hear about the 3 companies that are all good. That will make me sleep better

Today I am going to install the back window and see how it rolls up overhead. It is all FUN, but I tell my wife I am outside WORKING!

 

[DJ54]

Other than the full glass cab, mine looks identical, even the extenda-hoe, except mine has floaters on the front. I wish they made the front glass tilt up too. I hate working, looking through glass. Reflections on the inside, seing what's behind you, instead of what you should be looking at, or going directly into the sun later in the evening.

In Sept., I loaded 934 tons of bankrun gravel with mine, and hauled it on my little 1-ton dump for a new building pad. I don't use mine a lot, but, when I use it, I use it..!!

 

[SteveUSNY]

DJ54, I was wondering if you had any issues with the fuel injectors. The engine I have is a Case G188D s/n 2833202. The injector # is #20673 Case #A140828 (hard to find). A newer injector #20671 Case #A140829 appears to be a replacement but one web site supplier said that the new ones won't work. I was wondering why they won't work and have you had any problems or solutions? Nice truck and backhoe by the way.

 

[DJ54]

Nope, (knock on wood), no problems so far. Did you find the part numbers through the Case parts site..?? Case was great at changing things, at certain serial number breaks.

Using Google, I found several of the A140828's. Anywhere from $110, down to around $60 rebuilt. Before I bought from an online supplier on something like that, I'd look for a local diesel supply shop, and see if they could rebuild them. Probably cheaper than buying from an online supplier, and if you have a problem, easier to take back to a local shop, then ship back & forth, to make it right, if need be.

 

[SteveUSNY]

The old injector p/n was in my parts manual. When I would search suppliers web pages I would get the new p/n and not the old one. The newer one on eBay was $29. Google the new p/n and lots of pages came up. Case parts site came up with no match for the old p/n. Shame on them.

I pulled the trigger on the engine rebuild kit from AGKITS. They also had a hard time finding the old injector but after a call they found a rebuilt (cleaned & adjusted) one for $56.

I called Joseph's and they don't sell engine rebuild kits, they said "no money in it". AGKITS had a good review on Yesterdays tractor forum.

Received the seal kit for the steering cylinders and am working on them today. All fun!

 

[DJ54]

Sounds like things are coming along. I hope you reminded Joseph's, that maybe they need to update their site, if they aren't going to sell the OH kits. I know I would have, LOL...

Hope you've got it in a nice warm shop, going to get chilly here the next few days, and maybe 2"-4" of snow by late tomorrow night, starting in the morning.

 

[SteveUSNY]

We got 28" last night and today. Worked all day shoveling roofs and plowing. My old backhoe now has to be outside because the new one is in the tractor shed (not heated). It takes me 45 minutes to clean off the tin I have covering it, heat the coolant and get it started. It doesn't like being out in the weather.

My wife lets me work on the kitchen table so I am going to install the seals on the steering cylinder maybe tomorrow but the forecast is another 12 to 24 inches. Yesterday I broke loose the ball joints from the tractor on the second steering cylinder. What a job. Lots of heat and sludge hammer hitting the fork. I don't like the torch under the tractor. I did have a fire extinguisher handy.