Flail Mower Caroni TL1500FSC Flail Observations

[Rusty]

Since most Caroni flail owners on TBN have TMs, I thought there might be interest in my initial observations on the smaller TL-Series, on a smaller CUT. My Caroni is a TL1500FSC, received 4/1/11, at a price of $1,756.35 including delivery to ZIP 48732 in Michigan. I just finished mowing my 5 acre pasture for the first time this year. Most of the grass was as tall as the hood of my B7500. The pasture was as long as it has ever been when I cut it, literally like cutting a hay field. Because of the initial grass height, I double-cut the field. The flail was on the highest setting, about 4".

Horse Power: Caroni rates the TL-Series flails for 20-40 Tractor HP. The B7500 has 21 Engine HP and 16 PTO HP. I mowed at 2,600 RPM (540 PTO). The heaviest grass dropped engine RPM by 100-150 RPM.

Noise: Noise is different, less air noise under me, more mechanical noise behind me. Hearing protection either way. Flails clang when the rotor stops.

Chaff: My MMM ejects fine material from under the deck front as well as from the discharge chute. This fine material is drawn into and collects on the grill screen, radiator screen, shutter plate and radiator. In dry conditions, it is not uncommon to have to have to clean everything every 30 to 60 minutes. Some of the fines also find my eyes, nose and mouth. I cleaned the cooling system twice in 10 hours of flail operation. Coolant temperature never went above normal. Nothing hit my eyes, nose nor mouth.

Cut Quality: I have mowed this pasture with a RRM, MMM and now with the flail. IMHO, the flail gave the best finish, for both the first and second cuts. No windrows, but a lot of clippings. During the second cut in the opposite direction, the right side skid accumulated clippings from the first cut and shed them into piles. I am anxious to see the cut quality when cutting reasonable height grass.

Weight: My B7500 HSD-R weighs 1,367#. Kubota specifies a maximum 42 flail (no weight given, but they specify a maximum 430# for a 49 tiller) for the B7500. The TL1500FSC is 59 and 485#. I had no problem lifting or transporting the Caroni. The front end of the B7500 did not feel light.

Gear box oil: The gear box oil was at the low level mark on the dip stick, as received. I installed the British Metrics extender (Thanks, IslandTractor!). No oil out of the dip stick hole in the first 10 hours of use.

Ground speed: I can mow at a faster speed than I can ride. I mowed in low range at about 3.5 mph. It took me about one hour per acre.

Conclusion: My B7500 appears to be able to handle the TL1500FSC; add my name to the list of happy flail owners!

 

[leonz]

Since most Caroni flail owners on TBN have TMs, I thought there might be interest in my initial observations on the smaller TL-Series, on a smaller CUT. My Caroni is a TL1500FSC, received 4/1/11, at a price of $1,756.35 including delivery to ZIP 48732 in Michigan. I just finished mowing my 5 acre pasture for the first time this year. Most of the grass was as tall as the hood of my B7500. The pasture was as long as it has ever been when I cut it, literally like cutting a hay field. Because of the initial grass height, I double-cut the field. The flail was on the highest setting, about 4".

Horse Power: Caroni rates the TL-Series flails for 20-40 Tractor HP. The B7500 has 21 Engine HP and 16 PTO HP. I mowed at 2,600 RPM (540 PTO). The heaviest grass dropped engine RPM by 100-150 RPM.

Noise: Noise is different, less air noise under me, more mechanical noise behind me. Hearing protection either way. Flails clang when the rotor stops.

Chaff: My MMM ejects fine material from under the deck front as well as from the discharge chute. This fine material is drawn into and collects on the grill screen, radiator screen, shutter plate and radiator. In dry conditions, it is not uncommon to have to have to clean everything every 30 to 60 minutes. Some of the fines also find my eyes, nose and mouth. I cleaned the cooling system twice in 10 hours of flail operation. Coolant temperature never went above normal. Nothing hit my eyes, nose nor mouth.

Cut Quality: I have mowed this pasture with a RRM, MMM and now with the flail. IMHO, the flail gave the best finish, for both the first and second cuts. No windrows, but a lot of clippings. During the second cut in the opposite direction, the right side skid accumulated clippings from the first cut and shed them into piles. I am anxious to see the cut quality when cutting reasonable height grass.

Weight: My B7500 HSD-R weighs 1,367#. Kubota specifies a maximum 42 flail (no weight given, but they specify a maximum 430# for a 49 tiller) for the B7500. The TL1500FSC is 59 and 485#. I had no problem lifting or transporting the Caroni. The front end of the B7500 did not feel light.

Gear box oil: The gear box oil was at the low level mark on the dip stick, as received. I installed the British Metrics extender (Thanks, IslandTractor!). No oil out of the dip stick hole in the first 10 hours of use.

Ground speed: I can mow at a faster speed than I can ride. I mowed in low range at about 3.5 mph. It took me about one hour per acre.

Conclusion: My B7500 appears to be able to handle the TL1500FSC; add my name to the list of happy flail owners!

Congratulations to another fine member of the Flail Mower Nation.

Once you go flail you never go back.

 

[F1520]

Hey Rusty, thanks for posting this! I've been considering this mower for my Ford 1520 (~20HP PTO) and was wondering if the tractor could handle it. Now I know. Thanks!! :thumbsup:

 

[joemd11]

I've had my TM1900 flail now for about 3 weeks and I am really pleased with it. Rusty's observations are pretty much what I have experienced also. I still have to do the oil dipstick modification. I filled the gear box about half full and sure enough it burped it out.

 

[IslandTractor]

Great to hear about your experience with the TL series. As you noted there aren't many posts about the TL which is too bad as there are many tractors under the 30-35hp range needed for the TM1900. Sounds to me like your TL did pretty much what I would have expected a TM to do in similar length grasses. In very high grass I see about a 100-150rpm drop with my TM1900 and a 41hp tractor so your drop off was about the same. From your experience it seems the TL is certainly up to pasture mowing in thick grasses so maybe the onlly real difference between TL and TM would be when mowing brush.

 

[davcog]

I have a BX23 with 60 in MMM and after reading this and other flailing posts, :laughing: am considering a flail mower. :licking: Besides Caroni what other brands make a comparable unit in quality and price. That would fit my BX rated @ 23 HP.

 

[IslandTractor]

Most flails made in the USA are heavy duty and very expensive. Besides Caroni (Italian) the only other "reasonably priced" flails for smaller tractors seem to be the Befco units sold via ebay. There are a handful of TBN users who have the Chinese made Befco units and they seem happy. I have the Caroni and am more comfortable with the supply chain and longer history from this well respected Italian company.

 

[602466]

"I installed the British Metrics extender"

What is this and where to buy, as I also have the TM1900?

Thanks!

 

[leonz]

"I installed the British Metrics extender"

What is this and where to buy, as I also have the TM1900?

Thanks!

The British Metrics extender is the longer gearbox oil level dipstick and pipe fittings which makes oil level monitoring easier and avoids burping gear oil out the vent.:thumbsup::drool:

Some of the folks have purchased fittings from Mcmaster and have also purchased the kits from Agrisupply

 

[IslandTractor]

This is the link to the source of the metric extension for the dipstick: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/1497353-post19.html

I don't know if AgriSupply now stocks them as well. When I was trying to figure out a solution for the oil burb problem they did not have a clue. The extension from British Metrics works fine. It is inserted into the dipstick fitting and the dipstick is then put through it. Only trick is that you only fill with oil to the very bottom of the dipstick as the extension obviously throws off the original markings. Near empty = just right.

 

[Rusty]

Congratulations to another fine member of the Flail Mower Nation.

Leonz - Thanks! Do we have a secret handshake? :laughing:

 

[Rusty]

Another observation,

Offset: The TL1500 has a fixed offset to the right (looking forward). My B7500 is 50" wide across the rear tires sidewall-to-sidewall, so the TL1500 cuts about 12" beyond my right rear tire, while on the left side about 3" of the rear tire width is uncut. My MMM discharges to the right, therefore I am used to doing my close trim work on the left side. With the TL1500 flail my close trim work will be on the right.

 

[leonz]

Leonz - Thanks! Do we have a secret handshake? :laughing:

Yes we do grasshopper, but that is for another day.

I love it when a plan comes together.

 

[Rusty]

More Observations - Second Cutting:

I just finished mowing my 5 acre pasture for the second time this year. Most of the grass was 8-10" high. The flail was still on the highest setting, about 4".

Horse Power: No noticeable engine RPM drop during this cutting.

Noise: I guess I am used to the difference in noise, because I didn't think about it until now.

Chaff: Did not clean the cooling system in 4 hours of flail operation. Coolant temperature never went above normal. Nothing hit my eyes, nose nor mouth.

Cut Quality: I have mowed this pasture with a RRM, MMM and now twice with the flail. IMHO, the flail gave the best finish this pasture has had. No problems with clippings accumulated on the right side skid. I am extremely pleased with the cut quality when cutting reasonable height grass.

Weight: I changed directions faster than during the first cutting, and did experience some lifting of the front tires when switching from reverse to forward. Might look for some front weights.

Gear box oil: Still no oil out of the dip stick hole (extension) after the first 14 hours of use.

Ground speed: I mowed in high range this time. I didn't seem to be going faster, but I was more efficient. No going back recutting anything! It took me four hours rather than five hours.

Conclusion: Keep my name on the list of happy flail owners!

 

[rossetal]

After fighting a 6-ft Caroni RFM that keeps eating belts for the past few years, I bought the TL1500 flail as well, partly based on the information in this thread. My only regret is not doing it sooner. It ate through wet hood-high pasture grass without even blinking. This is a great mower for smaller tractors like my B2910. It took me about 1/3 less time to cut 5 acres of pasture, which also means less diesel used. I agree with all that Rusty said about this mower.

Jeff Ross

 

[mjzman]

I've had a Caroni TL1500 for about two months now, pulled behind a MF 1526 which has 20PTO hp. I'm on the Colorado prairie so all the grass has been browned up before I got the mower, but I've cut a few acres of that to see how it does. It cuts the 12"-18" dry grass fine except it doesn't chop it up much. I also have a bunch of Colorado yucca that is up to two feet tall. The tractor and mower really can't handle the bigger clumps of that. Running over a big yucca plant can stall the tractor out. Smaller plants are okay but may still pull down the rpm by several hundred depending upon the size of the plant. I had thought the mower belts would slip at some point but they do not. Seems the belts on the Caroni have more resistance than the tractor engine. I'm thinking I may have to see how loose I can set the tension on the belts-- most comments on flail mower belts seem to be about increasing the tension.

MikeZ

 

[leonz]

I've had a Caroni TL1500 for about two months now, pulled behind a MF 1526 which has 20PTO hp. I'm on the Colorado prairie so all the grass has been browned up before I got the mower, but I've cut a few acres of that to see how it does. It cuts the 12"-18" dry grass fine except it doesn't chop it up much. I also have a bunch of Colorado yucca that is up to two feet tall. The tractor and mower really can't handle the bigger clumps of that. Running over a big yucca plant can stall the tractor out. Smaller plants are okay but may still pull down the rpm by several hundred depending upon the size of the plant. I had thought the mower belts would slip at some point but they do not. Seems the belts on the Caroni have more resistance than the tractor engine. I'm thinking I may have to see how loose I can set the tension on the belts-- most comments on flail mower belts seem to be about increasing the tension.

MikeZ

Hello MikeZ,

For what its worth-

Do not loosen the belts-gasp!!!!

I wanted to mention to you that backing over heavy brush
at the 540 rpm engine speed with the mower operating
at ground level is a good first step in knocking them down
to the sod with your flail mower or any flailmower for that matter.

This is the same thing Island tractor does with his Caroni to
get rid of/manage his wild berry bushes.

Happy mowing.

 

[mjzman]

OK. No loosening of the belts.
I have not tried backing into these things, so I'll try that.
Have tried raising the mower to about a foot, but for the most part that shreds the heavy yucca leaves rather than cutting them. Sort of goes from 100 leaves to 100 leaves on the bottom half and 10,000 strings of leaves on top.

 

[IslandTractor]

As Leonz mentioned, backing into brush works very well with these flails. It cuts partly on the backing but mostly knocks brush over so you can cut it when you drive forward again. Just like backing into brush with a bush hog. Back about three feet then forward three then push back into fresh brush again.

 

[mjzman]

Follow up on my attempts at mowing yucca with my MF 1526 and Caroni. Here's what the stuff looks like. These are some medium sized ones which when mowed over will pull the engine RPM down from the normal 2600 at 540 PTO speed to about 1800 RPM.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=285979&d=1351098747&thumb=1&stc=1


Here's a big one one that I was working on. This thing had killed the engine three times at this point.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=285978&d=1351098745&thumb=1&stc=1

Finally got it down as far as I could by going over it slowly and dropping the 3-pt about an inch at a time. About fifteen minutes total on this one big yucca. I've probably got 50-100 of them about this size. The flail mower chops it up into something that looks a lot like the old excelsior type packing material, if anyone remembers that stuff.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=285977&d=1351098743&thumb=1&stc=1

Overall I think the Caroni can probably handle this stuff, but my tractor doesn't really have enough horsepower for it. The 20 PTO horsepower that is really about 17hp at my elevation probably needs to be about 25 real horsepower. On the other hand, it is all I need for most of my ground and I really like the physical tractor size. Also I wonder if I might have done better with the Caroni that has fewer cutters. At any rate it is supposed to snow on Friday, so I've put the mower to bed for the winter.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=285976&d=1351098741&thumb=1&stc=1