Carbide Saw Blade

/ Carbide Saw Blade #1  

Dennisfly

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I have a 12" power miter saw with a carbide tipped blade. I cut 1500 square feet of engineered flooring that has a hardened surface and the blade is not very sharp anymore. Can it be sharpened ,or do I throw it away and buy a new one?
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #2  
Normally they can be sharpened at least a few times. Mostly depends on the size and quality of the carbide teeth.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #3  
I don't recall the link, but a couple of days ago I googled "how to sharpen a carbide saw blade" or some such thing. The first link was someone asking the question on a forum. One of the answers was quite informative. I discovered the several "dull" blades I have were probably only clogged with baked-on resin, tho that doesn't sound like your case. The cure for mine is apparently soaking in a solvent and brushing them clean. The procedure for sharpening sounds rather simple, tho I don't recall the details.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #4  
The sharpening is charged by the tooth in most cases. So, find out what sharpening will cost in your area and then decide on what you want to do.:D

Some blades are only good for a specified number of sharpening.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #5  
reb has good advice.

I use oven cleaner(spray on type) to clean chop saw and table saw. If you look closely usually there is a build up of resin. I would try this first and than look at sharpening. And as Egon says - check the per tooth price first!

lloyd
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Thanks guys. I followed Reb's advice and found this: How do I sharpen table saw blade. Here is the pertinent part.

Dealing With 'Dull Carbide'
---------------------------

As late as the early 1980's, high speed steel (HSS) router bits and
saw blades were still the norm, and carbide-tipped cutters were
more or less reserved for 'serious' shops. Times have changed,
thankfully, and research into new forms of carbide and new processes
used to manufacture the materials have made carbide the most cost-
efficient cutter material for just about anybody's shop needs.
Strangely enough, though, (at least in my mind), there is still a
rather powerful mystique surrounding carbide tooling which causes most
woodworkers to believe that sharpening dull carbide tipped bits and
blades is something that must be done by commercial sharpening shops.

This couldn't be further from the truth, and I think most people, with
reasonable care, can get much better results by doing the job themselves
than they're likely to get from a sharpening service. I know that's
held true in my own experience.

There are a number of different grades of carbide commonly used in saw
blades, router bits, and shaper cutters, but they all share the basic
qualities of superior hardness, heat resistance, and brittleness. All
require diamond stones to sharpen and hone their edges, but fortunately,
the diamond abrasives needed are not expensive, and for the cost of one
decent router bit, you can buy a pair of diamond hones that will sharpen
dozens of carbide tips many times over. The hones I prefer are called
'paddle hones' -- basically a flat plastic stick, one end of which has
a diamond embedded metal pad attached. Using them is quite straight-
forward, as you'll see shortly.

First, though, it's worthwhile noting that since carbide tools last much
longer than HSS tooling, they have a much greater opportunity to become
fouled by resins and oils that occur naturally in woods. These resins
adhere to the teeth, the heat from friction hardens them, and they actually
may cause a blade or bit to seem dulled, even though it isn't. Your first
course of action, then, should be to examine your carbide tips often, and
clean them regularly. Soaking the tool or blade in a citrus oil soap is
the best method I've found for cleaning cutters. Most solvents will also
work, but the one time I used lacquer thinner to clean some sawblades, it
took the labelling right off the blades in a matter of minutes, and from
that point on I've used the citrus oil route. In any case, a 15 to 30
minute soaking followed by a light scrubbing with a toothbrush or a small
brass-bristled brush will remove any gunk that's likely to be found on your
carbide tooling. You may find that the tool wasn't even dull at all, and
that nothing further is needed for the moment. Note that before cleaning
or sharpening bearing-guided bits and cutters, the bearing should first be
removed so as not to compromise its lubrication.

Should you choose to touch up the edges, it's a very simple procedure. All
carbide router bits and shaper cutters have flat faces supporting the edge.
It's this 'leading' face of the bit, opposite the bevelled, or trailing face
that you want to dress. Take a medium diamond hone, wet it in either plain
water or slightly soapy water, and begin honing the flat face. Don't worry
about the bevel -- with carbide, there is no burning of the bevel and no wire
edge to concern yourself with, so treat it as though you were flattening the
back of a chisel or plane iron. Keep the surface wet, and stop honing as
soon as the surface has a uniform sheen and color, then move on to the next
face. You may be surprised that it only takes a few strokes from the hone to
dress the face, but resist the temptation to continue, or you risk shortening
the life of the cutter by changing its profile. Repeat the honing with a fine
diamond paddle, and if you really want to do the job right, follow up with an
ultra-fine. The edge is not going to feel as sharp as a well-honed high speed
steel edge, and indeed, it won't be. It wasn't when the tool was brand new,
either, and it never will be -- that's the limitation inherent in carbide, at
least for the present. But it will be sharp -- if you've been careful, it will
almost certainly be as sharp or sharper than it was when it was brand new.

For the carbide tips on saw blades, the procedure is almost identical. Hone
the flat, leading faces of the tips, taking care to keep the hone flat against
the face of the carbide. Unlike HSS blades, carbide blades cut along the sides
the teeth as well as along the tips, so be careful not to round these edges over
as you work. Do not attempt to hone the side faces of the carbide tips -- those
edges will naturally sharpen as the face of the tooth is dressed. When you've
finished honing the tooth faces with the fine or ultra-fine paddles, you may
find it necessary to just touch the top of the tooth with the extra-fine hone.
If you choose to do this, again be very careful to just barely polish the carbide.
Any more than that and you risk irreparably changing the shape of the tooth. At
all times, take care to keep the hone flat against the surface you're dressing.

And that's all there is to it. Chances are that your carbide will be every bit
as sharp as it was when new, and it's entirely likely that it will be noticeably
sharper. It's almost certainly sharper than it would be after being ground by a
sharpening shop, and you've removed far less carbide, increasing the life and
accuracy of the tool. Practice on your oldest bits and blades first while you
get the hang of things, and by the time you get around to your best tooling,
you'll be sharpening carbide better, and maybe even faster, than the pros.



So, I'm going to do the wash and then find the diamond paddle hone and give it a shot.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #8  
Cleaning is one thing. Proper sharpening is another.:D

But let us know how it works out!:thumbsup:
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #9  
Someone with a better memory will come up with the right name, but there used to be a particular sharpening tools that people would buy and then go into business sharpening blades. It wasn't a franchise in the sense of a franchise, but it was a fairly recognizable name that went along with the sharpening tool.

There's a old guy at the local flea market that sharpens circular saw blades and hand saw blades. Does a good job and very reasonable price.

If it is a high dollar blade, I'd be looking for someone to sharpen it.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #10  
Someone with a better memory will come up with the right name, but there used to be a particular sharpening tools that people would buy and then go into business sharpening blades. It wasn't a franchise in the sense of a franchise, but it was a fairly recognizable name that went along with the sharpening tool.

There's a old guy at the local flea market that sharpens circular saw blades and hand saw blades. Does a good job and very reasonable price.

If it is a high dollar blade, I'd be looking for someone to sharpen it.

Was it Foley?, now Foley Belsaw.
Dave
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #11  
I only have a limited knowledge of Foley, but my impression is that they make a wider range of woodworking equipment that probably includes a saw sharpener. The company I'm trying to remember I think may have been more specialized and limited to sharpening equipment. A friend's Dad used to use sharpen blades with it years ago, but I'm totally drawing a blank on the name of the manufacturer.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #12  
reb has good advice.

I use oven cleaner(spray on type) to clean chop saw and table saw. If you look closely usually there is a build up of resin. I would try this first and than look at sharpening. And as Egon says - check the per tooth price first!

lloyd
,
Another good 'TIP OF THE DAY'

Oven cleaner is very useful as a
CARBURATOR CLEANER
Spray it on, rinse with warm water,
Carb looks just like new!

I discovered this back when auto part carb cleaner became a hazardous product and the price sky rocketed beyond what I could afford for the occasional usage.
For a while I even used paint remouver but oven cleaner is much better and faster.

Even the dollar store variety gives great results!
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade
  • Thread Starter
#13  
I inspected the blade closely and there was a buildup of resin/who knows what, on the teeth. I removed it and soaked it for 30 minutes in dish detergent and then wire brushed the teeth. What a difference. It cuts well again. I don't think I need to sharpen it. Now I need to do the same thing to my Skil saw blade.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #14  
For grinding circular saws, I've only ever used Foley....I'm not some loyal user, it's just the only brand I've seen.

Cleaning does wonders. I use hot water and dish soap in a laundry sink. If it's really bad then let it sit over night and it will brush off quite easily. I do blades too large for the laundry sink with a cup brush on the workbench. You need to clean resin off before you sharpen anything, or it'll burn on and make a bigger mess; saw chains get similar treatment.

Whatever you do, don't let the blades get too bad before taking them in....life's too short to run a dull saw.

With a slightly worn saw in a DIY situation, for most blades, you only need to give the tooth faces a little kiss to sharpen things up; the resulting variation in tooth hight will be too small to really matter. If the blade needs a lot of face grinding to clean up then you have to grind the tops as well. For my own personal blades I don't usually bother to grind the tops and they cut fine.

@PILOON: That's a wonderful tip! Here's a funny oven cleaner story for you: I heard a cautionary tale about some guys in the Canadian Armed Forces looking for an easier way to clean their weapons and somebody had the bright idea to use oven cleaner....and removed the bluing!
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #15  
Yours was probably a buildup of the glue in the flooring. It would be cleanable.

As far as when it does need sharpening, you have to decide on that. A good blade needs resharpend, cheap blades need replaced. I have a Delta Pro 60T blade from the 80's I love and will use until it's gone.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #16  
I have a 12" power miter saw with a carbide tipped blade. I cut 1500 square feet of engineered flooring that has a hardened surface and the blade is not very sharp anymore. Can it be sharpened ,or do I throw it away and buy a new one?


I sharpen mine all the time, like others said most of the time it's a resin build up. I use a grinder with REAL gentle pressure and only just take a tiny bit at a time. I can usually get 4-7 sharpenings before they get tossed.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #17  
The flooring you mention, was it the laminate type such as Pergo? If so, that type of flooring now contains aluminum oxide in the fisnish and will dull any carbide blade with just a few cuts. Aluminum oxide is incredibly hard (its used in sanding belts and cut off saws for cutting steel). I just keep my dull blade on hand and use it to continue to cut any laminate floor in the future. You simply will not keep a blade sharp cutting any floor with aluminum oxide in the finish. Get another blade for cutting wood.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #18  
I'm not terribly brand loyal. For most cutting I believe that as long as the tooth geometry suits your application, the teeth are even, and the corners of the teeth are crisp, one brand is as good as another...if you play it fast and loose with something like a melamine blade then it will show in the cuts.

As for whether to sharpen it or not, it's simply a matter of repair vs replacement costs; even with the cheapest blades. Don't let the idea of having a brand new blade for a few dollars more sway you because, unless you badly burned the blade, there's usually nothing wrong with an old one that sharpening won't fix....and a few dollars is a few dollars.

One thing to think on is tooth replacement. One, or even a few missing teeth, depending on if they're adjacent and on the saw design, don't usually have too much effect on a saw's performance. I find replacing teeth on cheap saws more hassle than it's worth.

My biggest pain with sharpening blades is when the teeth get down to almost nothing: The heat from grinding can melt the solder and the tooth will drop right off...you carefully finish the blade and throw it in the scrap bin the next time it comes into the shop.

@RaT: As for the aluminum oxide flooring finish, I've never worked with it and it sounds like **** on blades....but do remember that carbides aren't created equally and you'll see quite a range of quality on different blades.
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #19  
Oops! I see that the four letter word in my post that referrs to that fiery place reserved for the wicked is censored. I'm sorry for using bad language. Am I going to catch Hel...er.... heck for this?
 
/ Carbide Saw Blade #20  
On the MOH's scale of hardness, aluminum oxide is 9, tungsten carbide is 8 1/2. A diamond of course is 10. They add aluminum oxide to the finish coating to add durability to the floor. I suppose that women with diamond bottom shoes would be very hard on even laminate floors with aluminum oxide. Oh my you said heII, very bad man, very very bad man, Babu very upset....


I'm not terribly brand loyal. For most cutting I believe that as long as the tooth geometry suits your application, the teeth are even, and the corners of the teeth are crisp, one brand is as good as another...if you play it fast and loose with something like a melamine blade then it will show in the cuts.

As for whether to sharpen it or not, it's simply a matter of repair vs replacement costs; even with the cheapest blades. Don't let the idea of having a brand new blade for a few dollars more sway you because, unless you badly burned the blade, there's usually nothing wrong with an old one that sharpening won't fix....and a few dollars is a few dollars.

One thing to think on is tooth replacement. One, or even a few missing teeth, depending on if they're adjacent and on the saw design, don't usually have too much effect on a saw's performance. I find replacing teeth on cheap saws more hassle than it's worth.

My biggest pain with sharpening blades is when the teeth get down to almost nothing: The heat from grinding can melt the solder and the tooth will drop right off...you carefully finish the blade and throw it in the scrap bin the next time it comes into the shop.

@RaT: As for the aluminum oxide flooring finish, I've never worked with it and it sounds like **** on blades....but do remember that carbides aren't created equally and you'll see quite a range of quality on different blades.
 
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