Can a guy do this with a small CUT?

[pax]

Hi everyone, I have been following every thread here as I have been in the shopping/comparison mode for a couple of months now, have been to all the local dealers, sat on many different tractors and read more literature than is probably good for me. (I am sure you all know what I'm talking about ) This is my second post and am in search of some experience from all you good folks.

A little history and bio:
A few years ago I sold most of the farm but kept the 15 acres of flat (mostly) open land that used to be my farmstead. I also maintained the rights of usage to 80 acres of river front land that went with the sale of the farm. I keep about 7-8 acres of the 15 mowed around a lot of trees that were planted 40 years ago, and have now become a forest out on the prairies AND need to clear and mow trails in the river land occasionally.

Last fall my mower died during the last mow of the season (21 yr old JD front mount) and that put me into a mower shopping mode. After looking at all the great new ZTR's etc, I just have a hard time spending $5-8 thousand on a mowing machine that ONLY mows and will be parked all winter. That got me looking into other avenues to be able to still do my mowing but also give me the ability to landscape, move all our Canadian snow, mow trails through the river front land, till garden plots, maintain gravel drives and so on.

As I was doing my research I was approached by the village that I live next to doing pasture mowing for the residents who have vacant lots and so my looking went form SCUT's to CUT's. I had been considering such a thing anyway and so I will be doing this and offering my services of small landscaping jobs and tilling to these neighbors of mine.

I have been looking at tractors from JD, Kubota, MF, Mahindra, Kioti, Montana in that 25-30 hp range.

So far things were good and I was getting close to pulling the trigger and then another fly-in-the-ointment came along. My mother's (she lives out on the 15 acres in her own house) septic field went south and needs to be replaced. That forest that was planted 40 years ago have grown roots through the field lines and plugged her run. Her tank is still in excellent condition and only the field needs replaced.

Now my question........ Can one of these small 25-30 hp CUT's with a backhoe handle such a job in a fairly manageable fashion?

Or would it pay just to hire it out? I am very adept at running equipment as I have farmed my whole life. I have run a backhoe, but would not call myself a pro by any means. Would this size of CUT/Backhoe handle the roots that thread through the land from the trees. The field passes near this (planned) forest (it is all planted in rows with new trees sprouting up from the cones here an there) and will be dealing with roots of evergreens that are 20-30 ft away and will need to go right through some lilac trees to get to where the field will be. I don't have any idea of what I can expect from a small backhoe setup. It would be a nice way to help pay for the hoe. Now if not feasible, I will probably not get a hoe at this time.

As a note, I still have a small ag tractor (65 pto hp) w/fel that is now way too big/heavy/awkward for maintaining this small acreage and I will be able to sell it to help finance this new purchase.

Well, thanks for those of you that made it through this rambling post. I would appreciate any feedback and thoughts on the ability, usefulness, sanity of using a small CUT/BH for this purpose.

Pax

 

[frank_f15]

IMHO HIRE IT OUT. your cut MIGHT be able to dig it out but there are so many variables when doing a septic system. alot will depend on your local specs. best done by somone that knows all the rules, I.E HOW MUCH SAND,STONE, HOW MANY RUNS OF PIPE, WHAT SIZE ETC. check with your county and see if ou can do it.

 

[ScottK]

Assuming you're going to get a permit, the cost of hiring a consultant and buying a backhoe to do the job is going to cost way more than just contracting the whole job. That way when it doesn't pass inspection, someone else has to fix it for free. Even the pros make mistakes, as just happened to my nieghbor. Not worth the headache of doing it yourself if the inspector is involved.

 

[SFish]

Pax:

I have a JD 3320 (slightly larger than what you are talking about) with the smaller 447 backhoe. I have been digging water line trenches (350 ft the other day, 3,500 ft to go) and several fairly large excavations for hillside terraced gardens. I live in the northern California coastal range in redwood, doug fir, and tanoak forest. I have been able to dig through roots on log skid trails through the woods with only occasionally having to get off the tractor with my battery powered Bosch "Sawzall" to cut roots (limbing blade). You can do your job with a CUT.

If it were me, I would go ahead and add some leachfield to the old system, but would also cut a deep trench between the trees and the old lines to kill the roots. They may slowly rot out and return function to the old leach lines. This is not rocket science, and most of the information you need is on the web.

In addition, I have found the backhoe to be very helpful to this old fogey for a multitude of uses. The wife wants some trees planted, I need to pick up some small logs over the edge of the hill, the neighbor needs to unload his new diesel generator and put it throught a narrow door in his shed-- no problem.

Steve

 

[Gittyup]

Hiring it out would be the most economical. But, can a small CUT do it? I think so. Some are better diggers than others because they are heavier and have higher hydraulic pump capacity. However, this quality is contrary to what makes a better mower: light weight. If you go the do-it-yourself route, then I would prioritize my selection, at least in part, by weight and hydraulic pump.

I have a Kioti CK25 with a Rhino 7.5' backhoe. I replaced my septic lines. But, I did not install a new field. My lines went right under a 30" Dia. Norway maple. So, I had to cut down the maple and dig up the stump. My tractor handled it very well, even without cleats on my outriggers. The stump was a heavy bugger though. I broke a 3000 lb chain dragging it out of the hole. Had to buy a 5000 lb chain to pull it. If you have a tremendous amount of roots to dig through, you might want to think about a special root attachment for the backhoe.

I chose the Kioti over other brands in part because of its weight and hydraulics. With loaded tires, loader, and backhoe I'm at about 5300 lbs. Branson is the only tractor that is heavier, I think. Total hydraulic flow: just shy of 13 gpm, about 7.5 for implements. However, I would have probably compromised on weight and bought something a little lighter if I were mowing a finished lawn with it.

Again, unless you need a backhoe for other things, best route is to hire it out. But, I love my backhoe. Best toy I own..... and one of the most expensive too.

 

[BungeeII]

Can't say for sure either way. It depends on the septic. Around here, pulling a permit for a new field will result in a whole new raised field with tons of sand hauled in. This means all kinds of heavy equipment. If you're in pure sand already, the digging can be tricky from all the cave-ins. If you're digging in good soil and only have roots to worry about, that'd be close to best case scenario for me, and save a lot of money over contracting it out. (

 

[sandman2234]

If your mother is willing to foot the bill for the hoe over paying somebody else to do it, and you have the extra time to actually do the work, I would say go for it. I wish I had the option of getting someone to help pay for me a hoe or a loader in trade for some work. The small hoes don't do it as fast as the big ones, but they will get the job done if you have the time to mess with it.
David from jax

 

[Harry c]

The specs for drain fields varies with location. Around Charlotte, NC, most are now done with a corrugated plastic pipe encased in a wrapper full of "Plastic Peanuts". Looks like the stuff used for packing. The sections are just put together, obviously to the correct grade and such. No rock at all. Here the field is simply a series of trenches coming from a distribution box. The County Health Department does the percolation test and essentially lays out the field for you. You haven't filled out your profile so we don't have any idea where you are so no one can give you specific advice. I heard of one guy that was doing fields around here with a BX23 for a while. He decided it was a little slow and traded up.

 

[pax]

Wow guys, thanks for all the thoughts on the matter. Sorry for not taking the time to fill out my profile. Here it is in a nutshell...... Southern Alberta Canada in a very laid back county in view of the Rockies. Closet neighbor is over a mile away and the next one is over 3 miles. Our county regs are very relaxed and I would be surprised if I ever saw an inspector of any kind.

Just so you know I am getting a quote from the guy that just put in my new house septic 4 years ago as well as another excavator as well.

As for the type of soil.... I am in a fairly light, but good loamy soil. I am glad to hear that the general consensus is that a small cut can do the job if I chose to do it. I will have to see how his quote comes in and then find what I can get the the material for myself.

I mentioned a while ago to my mother that I was looking at these small cut's and that they could have a backhoe mounted on the back and she perked right up at the idea...... so you never know

Because I will be using the CUT to mow with I would most likely be looking at a compromise of a smaller, lighter (but not tooo light) tractor, trying to keep up the gpm in the hydro pump and thus the digging pressure of the hoe.

I too know that a hoe would come in so handy in so many things. That's why I would love this to work........ but I am also a realist and will have a look at the things that you all have brought forward so far.

Any more discussion is always welcome.

Pax

 

[js5020]

I put in my own system it was a sand mound, and did it with a compact tractor and a compact excavator, no big equipment. Tanks were set with the trucks that delivered them, and sand/stone was dumped at the mound and leveled with the loader or boxblade, all trenches dug by the excavator. The only real problem we had was the inspector would not allow us to use the wheeled equipment on the downslope side to build the dirt berm, just took a little longer as we had to place the dirt with the excavator.

 

[PAB_OH]

I wouldn't hesitate to to do it for a minute. I personally bought a tractor with the intention of using it for jobs it was designed to handle. IMO, this is one of them.

You sound like you have experience with machinery so I can't see how this would be an issue??? Of course you could hire it out as suggested. I just don't see the logic in that. Why buy a tractor if you aren't going to use it? If you were digging septic systems day-in and day-out then I would say no, a 25-30HP machine wouldn't do. Being as it is, I say do it. I sure in the he!l would.

 

[pax]

I think I like the idea that putting in my mother's septic field is a doable thing as it is a way to help finance a hoe attachment for my CUT.

Now another "Can a small Cut BH do this?" question:
On our 15 acres we just moved into our new home and have the old (and I really mean old and run down) house that needs to be torn down. This is a 1400 sq ft, single story house. Can a small CUT BH handle the demolition end of such a project, and then with a thumb, the loading into a truck to haul away? Can it reach high enough, have enough power to tear things apart and push them over? Is there enough sidewards stability to do demolition work? And so on. That would be another job I could then do myself rather than pay someone else to do it.

What do you all think?

Pax

 

[IXLR8]

Because I will be using the CUT to mow with I would most likely be looking at a compromise of a smaller, lighter (but not tooo light) tractor, trying to keep up the gpm in the hydro pump and thus the digging pressure of the hoe.

Pax

Something to keep in mind, digging pressure of the hoe is set by the pump pressure, most are 2000psi, a few at 2500psi. The speed of the hoe is set by the pump gpm and engine rpm.

 

[Dmace]

I don't see any of your task being too much for my Kioti CK20HST, except for maybe the house demolition. The clean up would be an easy task but the backhoe reach is just 105.5" so it depends on how high the walls are. It surely has the power to rip the walls apart.

As far as the septic system, check out this recent thread where a CK20 owner replaced his septic leach field and without a backhoe attachment.

I have not mowed with my CK20 yet but many have and there is a mid mount mower option, although with your field size you would be better off with a rear mount finish or rough mower.

Dollar for dollar you will not find another tractor with the capacities, warranty, standard accesories and quality of a Kioti.

The versatility of a CUT is incredible, whether you are moving rocks and firewood...


Grading a driveway with a boxblade or snowblowing that 11" storm...



Digging out that 12" Oak tree stump with a 7ft wide root...


Or moving that stump to a burying hole, it's tough to stop these little tractors.


And at the end of the day, I can still haul it away with a 1/2 ton truck on a trailer as short as 14ft.


Click on any thumbnails for larger images.

 

[arrow]

Dmace, you see that rock you're carrying with your fel, I had a similar one that I couldn't fit in the bucket of my JD-750. Even if it could my tractor would never be able to lift it. I am truly amazed at what some of the newer iron is capable of capacity wise. I had to roll this rock with the fel the 50' I needed to move it. If I can get them, I'll post some of the pics I took of this monolith that stopped my excavation job for a half day (had to hand dig around the rock) that would of probably added another half an hour for your machine

 

[Bser]

Don't demolish the house,take it apart to use/sell the good material. A chain saw can make short work of the remainder. I've had several old houses to dispose of/move and turned each one into a profit. We quartered one and sold the segments for chicken houses;12 by15 feet. The cutting took less than a day. the new owners hauled them away on their equipment trailers. Here in Florida used lumber brings good money. Could take the bite out of that backhoe purchase.

 

[brandoro]

Hi Pax,
As a fellow Canadian the only concern I would have doing the septic system work is if you can dig deep enough to get below the frost line. If that isn't a concern then I'm sure a CUT and BH will do the job.
I have a Landpride BH, I think the smallest one they made, and have been very impressed with the power it has. Have to jump off the tractor sometimes to cut a bigger root but it will pull up a lot with the standard bucket. Also I run the tractor about 17-18 hundred RPM to get the flow to operate as quickly as I am capable of controlling so flow should not be an issue.
For demolition, the BH has a lot of power but smaller ones like mine don't reach too high. It would depend on what you were loading into. Mine wouldn't reach high enough to load into a tandem dump or even a grain box on a three ton. No doubt some bigger units will have the reach.
IMO--a BH is one of the handiest attachments for a CUT. One of those tools that you just keep finding new uses for.

 

[Dmace]

Dmace, you see that rock you're carrying with your fel, I had a similar one that I couldn't fit in the bucket of my JD-750. Even if it could my tractor would never be able to lift it. I am truly amazed at what some of the newer iron is capable of capacity wise.

Here is a picture from the side of that same rock.


I am truly amazed at some of the rocks I have moved with that loader.

Of course, some of the rocks needed a little more muscle to move.

Hi Pax,
As a fellow Canadian the only concern I would have doing the septic system work is if you can dig deep enough to get below the frost line.

I don't know if things are different up there in Canada but down here (even in New England) the septic does not need to be below the frost line. It's constantly being pumped full of warm water anyways.

 

[pax]

Something to keep in mind, digging pressure of the hoe is set by the pump pressure, most are 2000psi, a few at 2500psi. The speed of the hoe is set by the pump gpm and engine rpm.

Yah, I noticed that about the bh's and it's a good thing to be aware of. Thanks for bringing that up again.

I don't see any of your task being too much for my Kioti CK20HST, except for maybe the house demolition. The clean up would be an easy task but the backhoe reach is just 105.5" so it depends on how high the walls are. It surely has the power to rip the walls apart.

As far as the septic system, check out this recent thread where a CK20 owner replaced his septic leach field and without a backhoe attachment.

I have not mowed with my CK20 yet but many have and there is a mid mount mower option, although with your field size you would be better off with a rear mount finish or rough mower.

Dollar for dollar you will not find another tractor with the capacities, warranty, standard accesories and quality of a Kioti.

Wow your Ck20 looks to be a beast!!! It's hard to believe what these little CUT's are capable of doing!! I'm glad I don't have any rocks like that to have to remove. I may end up with a stump or two though as we have a forest (over 5000 trees) that my dad planted some 50 yrs ago or so, of spruce & pines.

It gives me more encouragement that the cut mounted bh might be a well worthwhile investment. thanks for both of your thoughts.

 

[pax]

Don't demolish the house,take it apart to use/sell the good material. A chain saw can make short work of the remainder. I've had several old houses to dispose of/move and turned each one into a profit. We quartered one and sold the segments for chicken houses;12 by15 feet. The cutting took less than a day. the new owners hauled them away on their equipment trailers. Here in Florida used lumber brings good money. Could take the bite out of that backhoe purchase.

I have always thought of doing something like that but SWMBO has made it clear that she doesn't want a project that goes on and on for whatever reasons, whether because of waiting for buyers or getting them to move their goods or whatever. She wants the old house gone asap, and to keep her happy, my thoughts are what SWMBO wants....... SWMBO gets. That way it is alot more likely that what I want........ I get. I will put out some feelers, but in this part of the uncrowded, rural world......... there are not many looking for old (I mean OLD) houses for any reason. But thanks for the thought as I will look into it.

Hi Pax,
As a fellow Canadian the only concern I would have doing the septic system work is if you can dig deep enough to get below the frost line. If that isn't a concern then I'm sure a CUT and BH will do the job.
I have a Landpride BH, I think the smallest one they made, and have been very impressed with the power it has. Have to jump off the tractor sometimes to cut a bigger root but it will pull up a lot with the standard bucket. Also I run the tractor about 17-18 hundred RPM to get the flow to operate as quickly as I am capable of controlling so flow should not be an issue.
For demolition, the BH has a lot of power but smaller ones like mine don't reach too high. It would depend on what you were loading into. Mine wouldn't reach high enough to load into a tandem dump or even a grain box on a three ton. No doubt some bigger units will have the reach.
IMO--a BH is one of the handiest attachments for a CUT. One of those tools that you just keep finding new uses for.

I won't have any troubles getting down to the level of the field. I am just concerned about the roots, but am finding in my reading the the responses to this thread that these little cut's have a lot of root breaking power. That is good news.

I have an old 1948 ford 1-1/2 ton truck w/hoist that I would be loading into. That old flathead v-8 runs like a top. She has duals and a box that is 7' x 10' and the sides are about 6' off the ground.

Do you think that your BH load into that?

I don't know if things are different up there in Canada but down here (even in New England) the septic does not need to be below the frost line. It's constantly being pumped full of warm water anyways.

I too think that is the standard practice up here. I know my new house field is only down 2 to 3 ft at the most. Thanks for posting.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.