Tires calcium filled rears presssure adjustment

[roman]

I am looking to add some air to my 12.4-24 rears. They are loaded. I parked so the stems were at the top. When I tried to check pressue all I got was calcium. I don't have a compressor so I hitched my little 12v powerpoint type to see if I could add air. That didn't work either.

Am I missing something? Is the calcium level too high? Is there a trick to this or do I need to bite the bullet and buy a compressor?

Roman

 

[North West Farmer]

Roman,

I have adjusted pressure in calcium filled tires many times and have experienced the same problem you describe. In general no two tractor tires are filled to exactly the same level. Sometimes you run into the situation that you did and sometimes not, depending on how full the tire has been filled with the calcium solution.

I do pretty much the same thing you indicated, rotate the tire so the stem is at the highest possible point and work with it from there. In order to clear liquid out of the valve stem area, as much as possible, I use the air chuck and apply a quick blast of air. If the valve stem clears, it is simply a matter of adding or removing air as needed. If you experience a flash back of liquid that indicates the tire is probably filled (pumped) to a point where the liquid level is above the level of the valve stem. You can go ahead and add air if needed and you will usually hear the air bubbling up through the liquid. You will also need to be as quick as possible to avoid fluid loss. The calcium solution is quite corrisive so it is important to keep the liquid discharge to a minimum and when finished the calcium solution should be flushed off of anything it has contacted.

Use caution, because the calcium is also damaging to your skin and especially your eyes (wear safety goggles or glasses that cover you eyes).

If you need to reduce the pressure and the fluid level is above the stem, you will generally need to discharge some of the liquid into a container or if you have a pump like used in tire shop you can back feed the extra liquid back into the container the pump is pumping from. Attempt to catch and contain the corrosive liquid in a plastic or possibly glass container as much as possible. Wash off any material that has spilled on to the tractor, items in the area and of course on yourself.

There are special pressure guages to be used when working with the calcium solutions and low pressure tires. They are resistant to the corrsion and they are calibrated to be very accurate in guaging lower pressures. I have never attemped to adjust the air pressure in a calcium filled tire without the use of my shop air compressor so I would guess that utilizing other methods of adding air my well be problematic.

When you have completed the process clean up everything that had come into contact with the calcium solution, including yourself and that is the process as I know it.

There is another solution that tire shops prefer to fill tires with that does not have the corrosion problems that the calcium does. The industry calls the newer solution "B" juice. It has one major problem. It is very expensive and you can spend a small fortune filling a large tire with that material.

I hope that information will be helpfull to you. Good luck in adjusting your tire pressure.

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[North Country]

There is another solution that tire shops prefer to fill tires with that does not have the corrosion problems that the calcium does. The industry calls the newer solution "B" juice. It has one major problem. It is very expensive and you can spend a small fortune filling a large tire with that material.

That's "beet" juice, as in "derived from purple tuber" juice. RimGuard is the brand name.

One other option, depending on the geometry of your particular wheels & tires, is to remove the tire and set it flat on the ground, or at a slight incline with the valve near the top. For some tires, this will put the end of the valve stem above the fluid level.

 

[randy41]

i top up my tires with an air tank. i eyeball it.

 

[North West Farmer]

North Country,

I am definitely not a tire expert. The people that do work on our tractor tires always refer to the chemical as "B" juice, I would guess that is short for beet juice.

I am definitely a little on the lazy side and do pretty much anything I can to avoid removing the whole tire to adjust or add some tire pressure. Handling those big suckers around with the backhoe or some other hoisting device is usually more than I want to get involved in unless the tire needs to be removed from the rim or something somewhat major like that.

Your suggestion of laying the tire and wheel down and possibly placing them at an angle to move the fluid away form the valve stem is a good idea. I will definitely keep that in mind if we are breaking a tire down off of the tractor in the future.

Generally I find it is easier to work on those big tires while they are on the tractor. We call for tire service if the situation allows. They are set up to pump the fluid out of the tire and then with the tractor jacked up, break the tire off of the rim, make the repair and put it back or or put on a new tire if needed.

Due to the corrosive nature of the calcium solution all of our tires that are liquid filled also have tubes. I haven't checked to see if with the "beet" juice you could mount them tubless or not. If anyone out there knows that answer I would be interested to know if the "Beet" juice needs to be in a tube.

Our area is fairly hilly so both front and rear tires are filled with liquid for the added stability factor. Having a lot of weight down low to keep the center of gravity as low as possible helps a lot, especially if you are pulling hard and going up hill and on a slope.

Tire work can be one of the most dangerous things we get involved in on the farm. If possible I like to call in the professionals.

Be carefull out there!

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[North Country]

North Country,

I am definitely not a tire expert. The people that do work on our tractor tires always refer to the chemical as "B" juice, I would guess that is short for beet juice.

I am definitely a little on the lazy side and do pretty much anything I can to avoid removing the whole tire to adjust or add some tire pressure. Handling those big suckers around with the backhoe or some other hoisting device is usually more than I want to get involved in unless the tire needs to be removed from the rim or something somewhat major like that.

Your suggestion of laying the tire and wheel down and possibly placing them at an angle to move the fluid away form the valve stem is a good idea. I will definitely keep that in mind if we are breaking a tire down off of the tractor in the future.

Generally I find it is easier to work on those big tires while they are on the tractor. We call for tire service if the situation allows. They are set up to pump the fluid out of the tire and then with the tractor jacked up, break the tire off of the rim, make the repair and put it back or or put on a new tire if needed.

Due to the corrosive nature of the calcium solution all of our tires that are liquid filled also have tubes. I haven't checked to see if with the "beet" juice you could mount them tubless or not. If anyone out there knows that answer I would be interested to know if the "Beet" juice needs to be in a tube.

Our area is fairly hilly so both front and rear tires are filled with liquid for the added stability factor. Having a lot of weight down low to keep the center of gravity as low as possible helps a lot, especially if you are pulling hard and going up hill and on a slope.

Tire work can be one of the most dangerous things we get involved in on the farm. If possible I like to call in the professionals.

Be carefull out there!

Nick, North West Farmer

My tires are barely over 100lbs loaded, so I manhandle them myself - it's a little sub-CUT. I can get hurt if I'm stupid, but it's not a full-size loaded ag tire. Those things are dangerous.

Yes, you can use beet juice without a tube. Some people think this is great, some realize that if you get a thorn, you'll leak a very expensive juice all over your fields (but it's still better than calcium chloride, which basically kills the soil.)

I have heard of one person trying the arrangement of slime in the tire, and then a tube filled with calcium chloride (slime between the tube and the tire). I know there was a lot of swearing getting it together and I don't know how well it worked.

 

[milkman636]

A simple jack placed under the rear axle will take the load off the tire. With the tire off the ground there should not be CaCl higher than the valve stem when its up at 12 o'clock.

 

[North West Farmer]

Milkman,

You are correct, if the person filling the tire has done his job correctly there should not be any calcium solution above the stem. Unfortunately, too often when the tire has been filled they have pumped more liquid into the tire than it should contain and when that has occured, jacking the tire off of the ground does not solve the problem of the liquid level being over the stem. Very often, after I have had a tire replaced, when I have blocked the axel up, thus lifting the tire off of the ground and when I depress the valve core, I get nothing but liquid from the tire. Not something you like to have happen.

That is why it is so very important that they do not pump more fluid into the tire than is the correct amount to prevent covering the stem area. I would say that I find tires that have been serviced to be over filled with liquid at least thirty percent of the time. Most service folks don't take the time to be as carefull as desired and I guess they think more is better than less or something.

An issue we farmers are aware of and need to be prepared to deal with, the tire that has been over filled with liquid.

Nick, North West, Farmer

 

[roman]

I am going to pick up a compressor (long overdue) and also try jacking the axel.

Thanks for all the info...

roman

 

[Powerhorse]

Anyone know where I might obtain a pressure gauge to work with cacl filled tires?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Anyone know where I might obtain a pressure gauge to work with cacl filled tires?

TSC....NAPA....Valu-Bilt....Shoup.....Agri-Supply.....Any GOOD farm supply dealer......

 

[North Country]

Milkman,

You are correct, if the person filling the tire has done his job correctly there should not be any calcium solution above the stem. Unfortunately, too often when the tire has been filled they have pumped more liquid into the tire than it should contain and when that has occured, jacking the tire off of the ground does not solve the problem of the liquid level being over the stem. Very often, after I have had a tire replaced, when I have blocked the axel up, thus lifting the tire off of the ground and when I depress the valve core, I get nothing but liquid from the tire. Not something you like to have happen.

That is why it is so very important that they do not pump more fluid into the tire than is the correct amount to prevent covering the stem area. I would say that I find tires that have been serviced to be over filled with liquid at least thirty percent of the time. Most service folks don't take the time to be as carefull as desired and I guess they think more is better than less or something.

An issue we farmers are aware of and need to be prepared to deal with, the tire that has been over filled with liquid.

Nick, North West, Farmer

Hmmm. I always heard exactly the opposite - keep the rims covered when using CaCl to prevent corrosion at the air/liquid interface. From Firestone AG's website:

"Fluid fill should be maintained at a level sufficient to cover the valve and keep the rim completely submerged"

Your mechanics think they're doing it correctly to prolong the life of your rims.

http://www.firestoneag.com/tiredata/info/info_hydro_1.asp

 

[roman]

I added air and the valve stems are leaking. A stream of calcium comes out. I was able to make it slow to a dribble. I put the caps back on to stop the flow. I will pick up some new valve stems today. Maybe the stems are just plain old and worn out.
How do I let air out of the tire when all I get is calcium??

North Country - Thats interesting news but I couldn't open the link...

 

[North West Farmer]

North Country,

As in so many things, I am always learning something new when I thought something else was the correct or different than I understood it to be.

None of my tractors containing a calcium solution are mounted in a tubeless manner. All fluid filled tires have tubes, thus there is no calcium solution-air interface issue.

I was not able to open the information link you attached regarding calcium filled tires.

I was trying to visualize the action of the fluid and air in a tire when the vehicle is in motion and it seemed the only time you could be assured the metal portion of the wheel was not exposed to air and fluid as the liquid splashes around inside the tire would be when the vehicle is standing still. Naturally, I was thinking in terms of a tubeless tire situation.

I will research this futher so I can get this clear in my aging mind.

That's what makes these forums great, is the learning and understanding that is made available for free if we keep an open mind.

Thanks North Country for your input.

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[North Country]

The link no longer works for me either, but it was a page describing how to fill tires using an adapter they had. You can use google's cache feature to read the text:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...completely+submerged&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

NW - yes, the rim would only be fully covered when the tractor is sitting still. For a 500hr/yr tractor, this is about 95% of the time.

My tires are filled without tubes. I honestly don't know if the stem is covered or not; I didn't check after they were filled. With RimGuard (beet juice) I'm not as worried about corrosion as I would be with CaCl. I "verified" the fill by noticing that they were a boatload heavier than when I dropped them off.

 

[North West Farmer]

North Country,

The link that came along with the e-mail from TractorBtNet.com did show the information on filling tractor tires with fluid. Unfortunately, none of the pictures described in the material came through so I had to use my imagination on them.

Thank you for your extra effort and assistance!

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[RaydaKub]

Nick, North West Farmer
I'm curious as to why you say it is properly filled just below the top of the rim and improperly filled if it is above that. What is the problem you foresee if it is over filled? I just filled my BX tires this week (only with washer fluid) and got them over full (by your defnition). Am I missing something? Thanks.

 

[North West Farmer]

RaydaKub,

Since I made that comment, I have found out, via this thread that filling the tire over the stem is actually the official method prescribed by tire manufactures. The reason for this, as I understand it, is that by filling over the stem and the rim as well you reduce the air liquid interface on the wheel. This is primarily important if the tire is mounted in a tubeless manner since it is in that air fluid interface that corrosion is maximized in the form of oxides that are decomposing in nature.

When the vehicle is in motion, there is increased opportunity for the chemical oxidation interface to occure. Since the tire is filled over the rim, the chemical interface potential is reduced and it is eliminated while the vehicle is standing still. The idea behind the filling over the rim and/or valve stem is to reduce damage to tractor wheels as much as possible.

If the tires are mounted with tubes, the tube provides a division between the chemical solution and the air in the tire. This being the case, the fill level is not such a significant factor. The tube contacts the wheel, not the fluid/air contents.

My original thinking was based on my own experience in checking air pressure and/or removing or adding pressure to the tire. If the calcium cloride solution is filled above the valve stem, you get a solution flash back each time you compress the valve core if you are not adding air pressure. The result is some spillage or leakage of a chemical liquid that is corrosive to anything it contacts other than materials that are resistant to the chemicals, for example: glass, many plastics, some paints. Items that can be damaged by the calcium cloride would be you, your clothing, bare metal, most paints and so on. The solution is very inflamatory to your mucous membranes, like your eyes, your mouth and any other similar sensitive areas. Your skin is negatively affected by it and any open wounds or sores immideately sting with contact.

My experience in working with calcium cloride filled tires for many years is that you have greatly reduced problems if the liquid fill level is kept just below the valve stem. It is possible to check tire pressure, reduce pressure or increase pressure without spillage and exposing yourself or the surrounding envirnment to the corrosive affects of the calcium cloride solution.

My years of experience has worked for me, but it is a practice that is in opposition to the tire industry that recommends filling over the wheel and valve stem. That's how we can get into conflicts on forums such as this. You believe you know the answere, but you are not necessarily correct.

The good side of it is that forums such as this are fantastic sources of information and if we don't run across the wrong source we have great opportunities to learn how to do tons of things the best possible way and we my be lucky enough to learn why it is important to do it that way. This is a very good example of this process in action.

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[North Country]

My experience in working with calcium cloride filled tires for many years is that you have greatly reduced problems if the liquid fill level is kept just below the valve stem. It is possible to check tire pressure, reduce pressure or increase pressure without spillage and exposing yourself or the surrounding envirnment to the corrosive affects of the calcium cloride solution.

My years of experience has worked for me, but it is a practice that is in opposition to the tire industry that recommends filling over the wheel and valve stem. That's how we can get into conflicts on forums such as this. You believe you know the answere, but you are not necessarily correct.

The good side of it is that forums such as this are fantastic sources of information and if we don't run across the wrong source we have great opportunities to learn how to do tons of things the best possible way and we my be lucky enough to learn why it is important to do it that way. This is a very good example of this process in action.

Nick, North West Farmer

This could be one of those things where the academic in the tire lab says "keep them filled above the rim" and the end user in the field says "not on my tires! It's a pain in the...."

And from such discussions are the great armchair debates born. :laughing:

 

[North West Farmer]

North Country,

I hate to say it, but I might be turning into one of those arm chair debators.

Have only been a forum member for a few days and look what I have come to.

Nick, North West Farmer