Oil & Fuel BX 2360 run with no oil.....

[George the Beagle]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but you can take out your key, tape over the ignition, and all that stuff, but please tell us what you or any of us are going to do the next time the oil light comes on: _____________________ (I know you can do this!!!):thumbsup:

 

[csr0831]

The Oil Analysis is a thought, but I doubt I'll do it....what am I gonna do if shows contamination? Tear the engine down and rebuild it, or just keep running it until I have a problem? The second option I think. If I didn't think the tractor will outlive me anyway, I might do it.:laughing:

As far as what I will do when the light comes on again........I had "just changed" the oil so I expected it to stay on for a few second. When it didn't go out I drove it immediately to level ground (slowly) and it still wasn't out, I shut if off. Usually if you know you have oil in the engine and the light is on, more often then not it's a bad sensor or a short. Not often an oil pump goes bad, particularly on an engine that has only 120 hours on it....although of course it can and I am sure has happened. I "knew" I had just put 3.3 qts in it. In retrospect, I should have shut if off immediately and if it happens again I will. Live and learn........

 

[David_Kb7uns]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but you can take out your key, tape over the ignition, and all that stuff, but please tell us what you or any of us are going to do the next time the oil light comes on: _____________________ (I know you can do this!!!):thumbsup:

Was having trouble with the oil light coming on in a 2004 Town & Country minivan, one in five times starting the oil light would come on. Would shut down and restart and it would go out. Did not know if oil pump was loosing prime or bad sensor as others had found. Finally got a trouble code for the sensor and replaced it and problem is now gone.

You have a sensor or gauge coming on engine shutdown in a safe and timely manner should be done.

I installed a gauge pod on my CAN AM Outlander quad for temp, oil pressure and charge voltage.

David

 

[milkman]

The Oil Analysis is a thought, but I doubt I'll do it....what am I gonna do if shows contamination? Tear the engine down and rebuild it,

Drain contaminated oil out and refill with new filter. I really doubt if you damaged anything in such short time though.

 

[Coyote machine]

The OP stated: "Usually if you know you have oil in the engine and the light is on, more often then not it's a bad sensor or a short."

Wrong answer: One ALWAYS takes the oil light at face value, and if you had done so, you would have avoided doing whatever damage you may have done to your engine. It's just like a gun; NEVER assume it's the light that's faulty, and ALWAYS assume the gun IS loaded! Test and verify.

I seem to recall you also revved the engine a few times thinking that would help turn the light off?!:confused2:

If you do an oil analysis you will have a starting point for results in future. You either did or didn't do damage, and this is one way to find out more than you know currently.
One can speculate till the cows come home, but that proves nothing.

 

[csr0831]

Given ordinary circumstances, I would agree...I would have assumed the oil was low and stopped the engine immediately. As I have already said, I should have cut it off. Yes, I revved it momentarily, less then 2000 rpms and only momentarily. As far as testing....if it came back contaminated, would I spend several thousand dollars to do a rebuild or replace the engine? No, I would wait until when and if I had some issues and address it then. You are correct, I either did or didn't do any damage.......and if the cows do indeed come home, I guess I'll find out then. Thank you taking the time effort to comment, it is appreciated.

 

[dalola]

engine that has only 120 hours on it....

This was going to be my first question....how many hours on the engine. 120, it's still pretty tight. I can guarantee you some damage was done, most likely to the main bearings. The big question is, how many hours until it shows up. Very difficult to answer that.

Perhaps you could try reaching out to a respected Kubota tech, see what they say. My gut tells me this is not good.

 

[747driver]

As other suggest...you need to get a oil analysis done. I use Blackstone Labs....$30. Had engine problems from fuel leaking into #3 cylinder which caused a hydro lok. Its a long story ( 1.5 yrs ago ) but I sent a sample in prior ( 6 hrs on the engine oil ) to getting the cylinder rebuilt. Just changed the oil last month and sent a sample in. The report showed numerous metals in the oil .... which would be normal after a cylinder rebuild. You need to establish a baseline so you can keep track of the engine wear.

 

[Coyote machine]

Given ordinary circumstances, I would agree...I would have assumed the oil was low and stopped the engine immediately. As I have already said, I should have cut it off. Yes, I revved it momentarily, less then 2000 rpms and only momentarily. As far as testing....if it came back contaminated, would I spend several thousand dollars to do a rebuild or replace the engine? No, I would wait until when and if I had some issues and address it then. You are correct, I either did or didn't do any damage.......and if the cows do indeed come home, I guess I'll find out then. Thank you taking the time effort to comment, it is appreciated.

The oil analysis now is to determine if a significant amount of metal is present. Then a 1000 hours or whenever do a second sample and see what wear is indicated. It's NOT about a teardown. It IS about if a teardown will or will not be needed and how soon, so you have options. Meantime keep the cows out and money in the piggy-bank.
You're welcome for the input. I owned/ran a foreign auto shop for over ten years in a past life. We did oil analysis, especially on customer diesels, on a regular basis. And we dropped new Benz and Volvo engines into customer cars fairly regularly, some short blocks, some entire factory remans, etc.

 

[crazyal]

Do you have a loan on it through Kubota? If so then there's a chance that you have Kubota's insurance on it. If something happens to the engine they will cover most of the cost. Did you start it up and move it before you drained the oil or did you let it sit overnight and then just drain it out? If it sat for some time then the oil would of drained back down to the pan.

 

[kuboman]

Save your money and don't bother with an oil analysis. Did you do damage? Of course you did. Bearings and cam shaft take it the worst. I assume the engine was cold so that would help. Run it and it will likely run a very long time but if its life ends early then you will know why. We all do dumb things, just kick yourself and then forget about it and carry on. There is no point in worrying about it as it is done.

 

[csr0831]

No loan, I own the tractor. I bought it in 2013. So this thing (my wife calls it baby) is about 5 years old. I had been using the tractor for about and hour before I drained the oil and the engine was still hot when I drained it. I worked on the Gravely for about the next hour and then came back and changed the oil filter and "filled" the BX and started it. So it was probably about and hour and a half from the time I drained the oil to the time I started it.

I tend to agree with koboman. It's 5 years old and only has 120 hours on it. At that rate it will very likely out live me. I will retire in a year or two and then the usage will probably go up, but I still suspect it may out live me....or at least last until I'm too **** old to sit on the thing. IF I do find there is metal in the oil, then that certainly confirms the damage and I'll know. I understand everyone's point about establishing a base line, but is that going to change the outcome? No. I will continue to run it until the damage (if there is any) manifest itself as some form of performance issue. Then, I will address it.

All that said, I am curious. I sent off for the oil testing kit and will test the oil before I change it again. I would like to know....just because that's how I am, if any damage was done. Now, that begs the question, if the oil comes back contaminated, most certainly the engine suffered some damage, but if it comes back uncontaminated, does that necessarily mean there was no damage?

Again thanks to everyone for your input, this is a great forum with many knowledgeable and helpful people here.

 

[Coyote machine]

Oil analysis is used by fleets and others looking to know when maintenance and breakdown are likely to happen, and to see wear patterns over time. You'd be better served to do a seanance than oil analysis for what you're looking for. Is there damage as a result of the engine lacking oil- probably. What the extent of the damage is would be near impossible to pinpoint since you have no prior reference. If you had performed an analysis prior to the incident then a test now you'd have something to compare.
You can only set a baseline for the difference between now, and future results. Further determination could only be done by a physical teardown of components or x-ray vision.

 

[CanuckPT]

If I take the engine oil plug out, the key comes out of the ignition switch and they are next to each other on the floorboard.

David

Great suggestion!

 

[Grumpa Wally]

An important detail is whether the engine was operated just prior to the oil change or whether it had set cold for hours before changing the oil. I used to like to change the oil on a cold engine, but it makes more sense to start the engine and circulate some oil over all the engine just before the oil change. Since most engine wear comes from high operating temps and cold start ups, the extra little time it takes the oil pump to pressurize and begin full pumping after an oil change would be less apt to cause wear because the engine parts are coated in freshly pumped oil.

 

[JRobyn]

It is my opinion that you did zero harm. I base this on the theory that despite draining the oil, all of the oil galleys within the engine were still full. Once you started it and the bearings began to turn, it would be much easier for that residual oil to drain off, but the bearing surfaces would still be coated. For how long, I can't really speculate, but 1-2 minutes should be in the "safe" category. Remember that there are LOTS of plain bearings that get nothing but a few drops of oil every year or so. HVAC fan motors, power tool motors, etc.. I admit that I am ignoring the "impact" loading of rod bearings where a pressurized oil film is important. Still think you're good.

 

[newbury]

<snip> Actually, I had thought about running it a bit and changing it again. The machine has only got 120 hours on it to begin with and I've taken good care of it (until now obviously). <snip>

Good idea.
Was that your first oil change in 5 years? Did you filter it or look closely for metal particles?

It would probably be very worth while to get it hot, drain it, filter it and look for metal particles. If it LOOKS bad you can know to be careful so you don't get in a situation, like 2 miles back in the woods, where if the tractor died it would be a royal pain. On the other hand if you never get far from your house, run it till it self destructs.

As other suggest...you need to get a oil analysis done. I use Blackstone Labs....$30. Had engine problems from fuel leaking into #3 cylinder which caused a hydro lok. Its a long story ( 1.5 yrs ago ) but I sent a sample in prior ( 6 hrs on the engine oil ) to getting the cylinder rebuilt. Just changed the oil last month and sent a sample in. The report showed numerous metals in the oil .... which would be normal after a cylinder rebuild. You need to establish a baseline so you can keep track of the engine wear.

Agree with establishing a baseline, but at an average use of maybe 30 hours/year and the next oil change after another 600 hours, 20 years is a long time.

Oil analysis is used by fleets and others looking to know when maintenance and breakdown are likely to happen, and to see wear patterns over time. You'd be better served to do a seanance than oil analysis for what you're looking for. Is there damage as a result of the engine lacking oil- probably. What the extent of the damage is would be near impossible to pinpoint since you have no prior reference. If you had performed an analysis prior to the incident then a test now you'd have something to compare.
You can only set a baseline for the difference between now, and future results. Further determination could only be done by a physical teardown of components or x-ray vision.

I ran oil analysis on my F350 until I established that with my usage pattern and modern oils I could probably go 20K between changes.

An important detail is whether the engine was operated just prior to the oil change or whether it had set cold for hours before changing the oil. <snip>

This is a winner.

I usually get the engine HOT, so hot I it's uncomfortable to handle the Fumoto valve or drain plug. Then let it slow drip to get the last drop. If you had done that I'd be concerned.
If you changed it outside "cold" and had just run it a bit to move it before the change you probably had enough residual oil to keep it lubed for what you did.

 

[csr0831]

Unfortunately, the oil was drained HOT....yep, hard to hold onto the plug hot. It's always been my feeling that it doesn't do a whole lot of good to drain it cold. Anything in the oil, metal particles, dirt, etc. have fallen out of suspension and are laying in the bottom of the pan, where they pretty much stay when it's drained. If it's drained hot there is a better chance they will be removed when the oil comes out. In this case, I agree, it may not have been a good thing at all. I changed the oil at 50 hours initially and it's been changed about four times since then. Even though there are not a lot of hours on it yet, I wont let it go over a year without an oil change. I guess time will

 

[csr0831]

It is my opinion that you did zero harm. I base this on the theory that despite draining the oil, all of the oil galleys within the engine were still full. Once you started it and the bearings began to turn, it would be much easier for that residual oil to drain off, but the bearing surfaces would still be coated. For how long, I can't really speculate, but 1-2 minutes should be in the "safe" category. Remember that there are LOTS of plain bearings that get nothing but a few drops of oil every year or so. HVAC fan motors, power tool motors, etc.. I admit that I am ignoring the "impact" loading of rod bearings where a pressurized oil film is important. Still think you're good.

I hope you are correct!

 

[valkyrie9901]

Run it and use it. After you feel it has had enough time to tell it's condition, change the oil and filter. Then cut the filter open and check for contamination. If there is none you got lucky and if there is a small amount, just use it. My bet is it is alright as these are tough little engines...JB.