Buying a BCS used or new

[frontyardfarm]

Hello everyone, I am really interested in buying a BCS or Grillo for our market garden. I am new to tractors so please bear with me.

There is a tractor dealer near me that sells new BCS tractors at normal prices along with lots of implements, so I am leaning towards BCS

I have been watching craigslist for a few weeks and I am noticing that most people are asking for high prices that are not much cheaper than to buy new. Also, most of the BCS tractors i see are the smaller models and I'm interested in 732 and up.

My question is whether it is worth it to buy used considering the warranty is not transferable, and how much cheaper should the price be? It sounds like they are pretty rugged so maybe the warranty isn't as much of an issue as I am thinking.

Thank you,
Chris

 

[cmyoung2]

Chris,
It depends on how much time you are willing to spend looking for the right deal used. I looked for over a year, not constantly, but often before I found my BCS 850. It came with several implements, so even after replacing the engine I think I got a good deal and am very happy- especially after using the potato plow to dig potatoes this afternoon Having a local dealer that is familiar with the equipment would be nice. Check to see their rep on service and advice. Even with a local dealer, I would develop a relationship with someone like Joel @ EarthTools. Sometimes he has parts or ideas that can save lots of time, sometimes more important than money. For instance, I talked to them about a new engine, they had what I wanted and could afford. They recommended I send them my old clutch and adaptor plate, they installed everything, shipped it out with things like the throttle cable, had it back in less than a week and it was easy to put back together.
New is nice, and I was about to go that way and got lucky. Dealer support would be nice- I don't have that. A good dealer will support used equipment, especially if you buy some implements or parts from them.
So, Money vs time, check out stuff good before you buy, and be prepared to do some adjusting and replacing parts on used stuff.

 

[frontyardfarm]

Thanks for the reply and advice. It must be great to be able to dig potatoes with your machine. I sure am sick of hilling and digging by hand.

EarthTools looks like a very good resource with good prices as well. The shipping costs for the tractor might make it cost more than a local dealer but they seem to be experts on walking tractors.

I am considering a Grillo 107d from EarthTools but I don't have any dealers nearby for parts or servicing. The 107d is quite a bit cheaper than the BCS 853 but seems comparable in terms of versatility.

Also, the BCS 739 powersafe seems like a good option. I don't like that the transport speed is not included, but to be honest I don't know how much i would use that anyways. Is the transport to fast to walk behind it making a sulky cart necessary? I saw a video of it in third gear and it looks like it moves pretty good for transporting on foot.

Any input would be very helpful.

Thanks

 

[HEC]

I had a bcs professional model a few years back and they are a great machine . If at all possible try and get one with differential lock as that is a great option. I added some weight to mine as that helps in the traction department . HP. was never a problem as I seldom ran it much above idle even when tilling . If there isn't much of a price difference I would buy new , I bought mine used at a good price and it was almost new .

 

[deerseeker001]

Welcome from Wisconsin

 

[wstr75]

I have done business with both Earthtools and the BCS Shop. Both gave me good service and advice. The BCS Shop is in Harvard, MA and looks to be about an hour away from your location in Ware, MA. Regarding buying used on Craigslist, I often buy stuff and fix it up because it is my nature, but sometimes when totaling up the receipts I would have been better off financially and time wise if I had bought new. Whatever you do, buy a two wheeled tractor having a differential and brakes. I use the individual brakes to steer when mowing on hillsides and also when running various implements. Locking the brakes also helps when putting implements on and off. Gotta have brakes and a differential.

 

[cmyoung2]

Transport gear will take you at a very fast jog/run at idle, full speed is something like 7mph. The difference in the 852/853 is direction of travel for the transport. On my 850, 3rd gear is a very good walking pace, good for mowing, wheel barrow, things that need to Move. I sold my sulky because my terrain is no conducive to straight, level ground. Having a differential and brakes is the reason I got the 850 and sold my 725. I agree with wstr75, brakes and diff are a must, much more important than HP. Weight also helps. The powersafe is interesting, the older models have years of experience. And powersafe will be hard to find used. Check the earthtool website for help deciding between BCS and Grillo.

 

[frontyardfarm]

Thanks everyone, its great to have all this input from other two wheeled tractor owners. I will definitely make sure to get something with differential and brakes.

wstr75, I just found out about BCS Shop. It seems I'm lucky to live so close to a dealer specializing in BCS. If I do go with a new BCS I think it will be from them.

This ad was just posted recently for a used bcs and attachments. BCS tractor with several attachments
The seller doesn't say what year or model it is, looks like a 850 maybe. The ad says it originally cost over $30,000 which i find hard to believe. Does this look like a good deal if in good shape? Also, does anyone recognize the implements or model number? I emailed the seller but he doesn't know much about it, says he will find out tomorrow.

 

[ferrari99]

I personally think a transport speed would be nice, but it depends on the application unless you use a trailer I don't think a transport speed is absolutely necessary.

I personally wouldn't pay $5000 for that, we bought a brand new diesel for not a lot dearer than that.
I don't think it would have cost $30,000.
It appears that it has a mower, snowblower, tiller (obviously), sickle mower(can't see a bar though), adjustable ridger and a moldboard plow.
Is it petrol or diesel?

Anyway that's just my thoughts,
ferrari99

 

[Ford850]

I've had an 850 for about 20 years. I never thought I would need the transport speed, so didn't mind it was reversed and of no use for a sulky or cart. But a couple years ago, now on a larger property, I added a cart and sulky. It pulls like a beast, although slow since I only have 3rd as my top gear. I've had the cart/trailer heaped with moist sod or soil many times now, probably weighing 1000 - 2000 pounds, and it moves it easily. It works great to haul out harvests of pumpkins, potatoes, etc. I think the transport speed would be very useful on a market garden.
AS for that used BCS, I would bet the tiller seals are shot and the tines worn down. That will be your primary tool, so probably not worth the price unless you also need the mower and cutter.

 

[frontyardfarm]

ferrari99, I might want a trailer in the future so that is something to consider.
I'm thinking it's not worth $5000 either, I'm waiting to find out more about it, supposedly it only has 9 hours of use. It's hard top tell from the picture, but the tiller guard looks like it has a lot of wear on it, more than 9 hours.

Ford850, Does the 850 have transport when in the front mounted position?
I would definitely use the other implements, but the tiller would be used most. If I can get a better price on the whole package, I suppose I could sell the sweeper to help pay for a new tiller.

 

[ferrari99]

Depending on how much you use it and how hard it is worked would it be worth considering a diesel? (I may or may not be biased considering I have a diesel).
Our machine has about 40 hours on it and it looks far newer than that one considering it also says "stored in garage".
The trouble we have here in Australia is that they are not available with a transport speed.

 

[wstr75]

My suggestion is to to offer to buy the tractor and implements for $3000 and not go above $3500. The same tractor and implements if bought new I'm guessing would be about $7000 to $8000 or more.. I'm not quite sure but looking at the picture it appears to have a 14 hp Briggs Vanguard engine. I would not go above $3500 because you may have the same experience as CMYoung on this board and have to replace the engine which would set you back another $700. With you living in MA having a snowblower may be a wondrous thing to have. The mower is useful and the tiller can be put into shape with new tines should it need new a new set. The 850 is a good tractor and has essentially the same features as today's 852 and 853 tractors.

 

[farmerboybill]

Regarding the unit for sale on CL -

I think it's a 605 or 737. It has a flat top tiller, and the ridger has no hole to accommodate a 3 dog PTO. Transport speed is in "mower" mode on the 605, and "tiller" mode on the 737.

If you buy it, use that mower to hold your shed door open. It has no breakaway to absorb shocks, which puts too much stress on the PTO. It's OK for use in known areas where that's NO chance of finding a big rock, stump, or anthill, but is likely to break your PTO if it hits something unmovable.

He pulled that $30k price out of thin air. I'd bet he paid about $5K when he bought it in the early 90's. It'd probably be a waste of time contacting him as he's not likely to cut his price in half.

I wouldn't worry too much about having a "local" dealer. Many BCS dealers sell them next to other OPE. They really have no specialized skills when it comes to fixing them. Any person with a basic knowledge of machinery can work on and fix a Grillo or a BCS.

 

[frontyardfarm]

ferrari99, I am considering a diesel for a long term investment, but it does ad quite a bit to the price. I'm working with a limited budget and I can see that it will get expensive by the time I purchase the implements I need.
Although it looks like the grillo 107d has a diesel and electric start for about the same price as a 853 with gasoline engine and pull start.

Wstr75, Your right I was thinking the same thing about the snow blower. I have a truck with plow but there is a lot of places I could use a snow thrower. I was thinking the same thing, offering $3000 depending on the condition of everything.

Farmerboybill, Your right it turns out it is a 605 12hp. Thanks for the heads up on the mower, I wasn't sure if it could be used in overgrown areas. The $30,000 price kind of throws me off also, because right off the bat there being dishonest, also it looks like it has more than the 9 hours of use he claimed it had. I think the seller isn't the previous owner so he doesn't really know anything about it.

Is the 605 a decent tractor if it isn't worn out by now? Looks like it was the predecessor to the 850.

thanks

 

[farmerboybill]

The 605 is the predecessor to the 850 and is a good machine. It doesn't have a shift pattern like the 850, which is just a crooked line to provide stops at every gear. It helps you find your gear easier. It also has a spline PTO, which is not as strong as a 3 dog PTO, but is adequate for 99% of applications. It also may not have a cone clutch. Only way to know is to pull the engine. The other clutch is a series of clutch facings that comes in two pieces. It's actually a better clutch than the cone clutch as it does not stick from sitting.

I'd figure the tractor to be worth $1500, Tiller $250, Snowblower $350, mower $200, sweeper 300, sickle mower (if complete and working) $300, ridger $50, moldboard plow $50. I think there must have been a dozer blade, too, as that L shaped bracket looks like part to one. You may wanna ask. If he has it, that's another $150. I'm trying to think of what he's calling a "roller", unless it's just a lawn roller adapted to be pulled behind it.

 

[frontyardfarm]

Thanks for the info, there is quite a few different models, but I'm starting to learn.

I think the roller might be a ride behind sulky. It turns out the seller's step father passed away and that is why he posted the ad. I offered $3000 but he thinks its worth much more than that, so we'll see if he ends up calling back.

Most likely I will just bite the bullet and buy new, I hate paying all that sales tax though.
It looks like there is a sale on professional series models on BCSAmerica.com until the end of the month. BCS 853 is $3,849. Does that mean most dealers will offer that price?

 

[ferrari99]

BCS 853 is $3,849.

You said your on a budget that machine here in Australia would probably retail around $7,000, here that would be dirt cheap (just my sob story about everything being dearer here than in the US)

 

[ferrari99]

I don't know your exact use but the 749 is the same price as the 853, the 749 doesn't have the transport speed but it has a powersafe clutch and it looks a little more refined.
Just my thoughts,
ferrari99

 

[aczlan]

Thanks for the info, there is quite a few different models, but I'm starting to learn.

I think the roller might be a ride behind sulky. It turns out the seller's step father passed away and that is why he posted the ad. I offered $3000 but he thinks its worth much more than that, so we'll see if he ends up calling back.

Most likely I will just bite the bullet and buy new, I hate paying all that sales tax though.
It looks like there is a sale on professional series models on BCSAmerica.com until the end of the month. BCS 853 is $3,849. Does that mean most dealers will offer that price?

I know where you could get a 730 with a tiller for 1/3 of what you offered him if you didnt mind a drive to near Rochester, NY

Aaron Z