Building Inspector vs. Pole Barn

[s219]

I submitted for a building permit two weeks ago for a pole barn that is going up in May. It was designed and will be built by CHA Pole Barns from PA. Well, the building inspector had some problems with the plans, listed below with my comments:

1) need roof truss engineering specs with seal of certification

OK, fair enough

2) need specs on species and types of wood used for framing, roof sheathing, and siding

OK, fine, can do, though seems overkill since lumber types were already specified

3) need to add wall diagonal bracing to corner posts to prevent shear

I would think poles set 42" in the ground would be more than enough to resist shear???

4) need to notch 2x12 wall headers into posts, and headers should be laminated together

I have always seen them bolted or spiked onto side of poles (so outer header is inline with wall girts). Not even sure there's enough meat on a 4x6 to notch in double 2x12 headers.

5) need registered engineer to sign off on 16" cookie used for footing in my soil conditions

Great, will cost me $200-250 just to have someone tell me what we already know


I have asked CHA to provide what info they can on items 1-4, and I will handle the footing issue with a local engineer. But I was wondering if anyone else has run into issues like this for pole barns? I thought the construction and design was simple enough to be idiot proof.

For example, item 3 seems odd to me. There are dozens of pole barns along the road to my house, and I am sure I've never seen diagonal braces. The main difference is that those properties are zoned agricultural and the buildings are for agricultural use, so they probably didn't have to mess with permits. My land is also zoned agricultural, but in a residential area and I can't claim agricultural use.

 

[jel1988]

Building officials must justify their existance therefore the take a quick look at the plans ask a bunch of questions that are answered on the plans. Then they follow up the one two punch by keeping their engineer friends in business.
PS Your engineer will probably ask for a larger footing (cookie) code generally requires 2'*2' or 28" round.

 

[Clint S]

Only thing I needed on mine was #1

 

[murphy1244]

Why isn't the builder getting the Permits?

 

[s219]

Why isn't the builder getting the Permits?

They are out of state, so I thought it would be easier to put in the application myself.

 

[murphy1244]

They are out of state, so I thought it would be easier to put in the application myself.

This should be old hat for them. All I did was get the site permit and my Builder took it from there. 1 Inspector came out and measured the Post holes and that was that.

 

[oosik]

Strange, strange. Here, in this county, I do not need a building permit unless the construction will have space considered as human habitation. I can definitely see the reasoning. Lordy - they find plenty of other ways to suck up funding. There is wishy/washy wording for car garages - attached/detached. But a true barn or pole shed without living quarter does not need a building permit.

 

[s219]

Here, you need a permit for anything over 200 sq.ft. At my old place, I built several small sheds just to stay under that limit. I wanted a single bigger barn at our new house, hence the 20x20 (which still isn't that big really). I'm starting to remember why I avoided permits before...

 

[Rustyiron]

Does an ag building need a permit in VA? Make sure that your "engineer" realizes that there will be no load (ground pressure) on the "cookies" other than the bldg. itself, and I believe that there is an equal concern that is widely overlooked in the opposite direction, uplift. There are simple solutions, from a few pc of rebar drilled and inserted extending beyond the post, or a simple 2x6 spiked on similarly. Both of these well below grade in the hole. Some of the cookies have a metal strap that is nailed to the post. I think Lester uses this type. Enjoy your bldg.! PS the corner bracing is pretty std. on the pole buildings that I have seen or done. Usually just nailed up on the inside of the wall girts diag. @ the corners. This is a good idea especially on a wall that's wide open with large doors or openings. You'd be surprised how much a building will move or "rack" even with all those post sunk in the ground!

 

[vtsnowedin]

Oh you need a permit for sure. Not to check out your engineering. If it fails after they approve it they will know "noting ---- I see Noting" but the permit lets the assessors,(listers in my state and I'm one of them) know there is something new that needs taxing. :dance1:

 

[Tollster]

Its all about money in the northeast. Here in PA, they actually inspect the sheet rock screw distance between them..
Tell me what that has to do with structural integrity? Particularly after jumping through all the hoops just to get a wall up?
We are serious about building a new home, but after seeing the amount of BS here in PA and how they just want to fill the coffers, I am seriously ready to take my tax base to another state, and my money!

 

[Ranger Rick]

If you are building your roof with purlins to support your roofing my inspector referred me to this document for all the bracing that wouls be required for bracing the roof trusses. http://support.sbcindustry.com/images/publication_images/b10.pdf It was a lot of work but I am sure it will not fall over in most wind storms. Good luck.

 

[MacLawn]

Heheheeee, after seeing what looked to be a strong built pole barn collapsed in on itself last week, I see the need for inspections. The thing was only about 4 years old, out in open with no tree problems, not much wind lately, and just our central Georgia ice storm. Reckon the ice did'er in, but the thing should've withstood that. Could've hurt somebody or messed up equipment bad.

 

[oosik]

I need to update a post( #7) I previously made. Since I last got my building permit for my house in '82 the county now requires a building permit for any structure over 250 sq ft. More funds into the gov coffers, more gov involved in private matters.

 

[Tollster]

Its over 5 k for a residential permit here, another 400.00 to get a septic permit, then you have to pay an outside party for a septic plan, then pay to have it installed to the plan and inspected.
Another 25 for a driveway permit, and a whole list of other permits needed to drill wells and so on.

When its over your taxes could be as high as 5k a year to live 45 minutes from wal-mart, on roads you'll plan your route around due to the amount of holes in them.
And if you don't pay your property taxes, they'll seize your home here in PA... average income is less than 40k a year for the area.

 

[charlz]

Permit required for any structure over 200sqft here as well. Some other counties do not require permits for pole barns. Our county publishes the permits issued, structure cost and permit cost. They rake in about $250,000 per WEEK in permit fees.... at ~$13 million per year building permits are definitely a big business.

 

[Soundguy]

Building officials must justify their existance therefore the take a quick look at the plans ask a bunch of questions that are answered on the plans. Then they follow up the one two punch by keeping their engineer friends in business.
PS Your engineer will probably ask for a larger footing (cookie) code generally requires 2'*2' or 28" round.

wow.... no permit needed here for pole buildings with no plumbing or electrical...

 

[brin]

I have built numerous pole buildings etc. before we were required to get permits....it has all changed now....When I built my house ...I was the GC...I had a great building inspector and used his recommendation to hold the subs feet to the fire...they can work to your advantage....think about it...

 

[teejk]

In Wisconsin I needed a building permit from the town. It went up at the same time as the house so the inspector (an outside engineer contracted by the town because they can't justify their own) knew about it but said it was not part of the Uniform dwelling building code because it was detached and not intended for living. I think he was dying to get in there though. He really took pride in pointing out mistakes and I'm sure in any of these structures he would find several. In general I learned to like him a lot. He was up on the code and a bit fussy but took the time to answer any questions (and many times simply nodded when I said a particular code requirement was silly). So around here the town permit ($10) is simply a reminder for the tax assessor.

 

[brokenknee]

No building permits required here. Only permit required is if you replace your septic, I guess they want to make sure it runs down hill and you are at the bottom.

Permits are required in just about all the townships around us so I would think it will be only a matter of time.