Building Inspector vs. Pole Barn

[NoTrespassing]

No building permits required here. Only permit required is if you replace your septic, I guess they want to make sure it runs down hill and you are at the bottom.

Permits are required in just about all the townships around us so I would think it will be only a matter of time.

Same rules here. I checked before I bought the land. My neighbor added on about 1000 sq ft more than doubling his living space and has had no increase in taxes after 5 or 6 years. I guess they don't even know he added on.

 

[rturner]

I submitted for a building permit two weeks ago for a pole barn that is going up in May. It was designed and will be built by CHA Pole Barns from PA. Well, the building inspector had some problems with the plans, listed below with my comments:

1) need roof truss engineering specs with seal of certification

OK, fair enough

2) need specs on species and types of wood used for framing, roof sheathing, and siding

OK, fine, can do, though seems overkill since lumber types were already specified

3) need to add wall diagonal bracing to corner posts to prevent shear

I would think poles set 42" in the ground would be more than enough to resist shear???

4) need to notch 2x12 wall headers into posts, and headers should be laminated together

I have always seen them bolted or spiked onto side of poles (so outer header is inline with wall girts). Not even sure there's enough meat on a 4x6 to notch in double 2x12 headers.

5) need registered engineer to sign off on 16" cookie used for footing in my soil conditions

Great, will cost me $200-250 just to have someone tell me what we already know


I have asked CHA to provide what info they can on items 1-4, and I will handle the footing issue with a local engineer. But I was wondering if anyone else has run into issues like this for pole barns? I thought the construction and design was simple enough to be idiot proof.

For example, item 3 seems odd to me. There are dozens of pole barns along the road to my house, and I am sure I've never seen diagonal braces. The main difference is that those properties are zoned agricultural and the buildings are for agricultural use, so they probably didn't have to mess with permits. My land is also zoned agricultural, but in a residential area and I can't claim agricultural use.

3) Depends on 3 second wind gust in your area, wall height, and length of wall. Post size influences the need for that too.
4) knee jerk reaction to folks using common nails and a nail gun on truss supports instead of ring shank nails.
5) undersized footers are the biggest mistake in the industry. If your building is a 24x32 a 16x5 cookie will work unless your soil bearing capacity is really bad or your snow load is massive. The just don't work well on bigger barns. Barns settle all the time due to undersized footers.


We had a county in Virginia want 7' of post embedment for a 20' eave height monitor barn. Had to pay an engineer to get around that. Our engineer doesn't agree with carriage bolting truss supports ever. Not with the grain of the wood. He recommends ring shank nails or screws. then a bearing block carriage bolted below the truss support since the bearing block isn't horizontal.

 

[300UGUY]

I submitted for a building permit two weeks ago for a pole barn that is going up in May. It was designed and will be built by CHA Pole Barns from PA. Well, the building inspector had some problems with the plans, listed below with my comments:

1) need roof truss engineering specs with seal of certification

OK, fair enough

2) need specs on species and types of wood used for framing, roof sheathing, and siding

OK, fine, can do, though seems overkill since lumber types were already specified

3) need to add wall diagonal bracing to corner posts to prevent shear

I would think poles set 42" in the ground would be more than enough to resist shear???

4) need to notch 2x12 wall headers into posts, and headers should be laminated together

I have always seen them bolted or spiked onto side of poles (so outer header is inline with wall girts). Not even sure there's enough meat on a 4x6 to notch in double 2x12 headers.

5) need registered engineer to sign off on 16" cookie used for footing in my soil conditions

Great, will cost me $200-250 just to have someone tell me what we already know


I have asked CHA to provide what info they can on items 1-4, and I will handle the footing issue with a local engineer. But I was wondering if anyone else has run into issues like this for pole barns? I thought the construction and design was simple enough to be idiot proof.

For example, item 3 seems odd to me. There are dozens of pole barns along the road to my house, and I am sure I've never seen diagonal braces. The main difference is that those properties are zoned agricultural and the buildings are for agricultural use, so they probably didn't have to mess with permits. My land is also zoned agricultural, but in a residential area and I can't claim agricultural use.

I built a 40x40x12 barn 25 years ago. No permit, just a land use permit that cost $20.

I carridge bolted all the headers onto the posts. And they all have a couple of ring shank nails in them, I nailed it up, then drilled for the bolts.
I didn't use a cookie, just some rocks in the bottom of the hole. I got lucky, it hasn't settled, but a neighbor's did. The cookies are better, and bigger is better.
We always had engineered trusses here, it really isn't worth making your own.
I think the diagonal bracing is a good idea. Mine has it on all 4 corners.

YMMV, Have a good one.

 

[grsthegreat]

I submitted for a building permit two weeks ago for a pole barn that is going up in May. It was designed and will be built by CHA Pole Barns from PA. Well, the building inspector had some problems with the plans, listed below with my comments:

1) need roof truss engineering specs with seal of certification

OK, fair enough

2) need specs on species and types of wood used for framing, roof sheathing, and siding

OK, fine, can do, though seems overkill since lumber types were already specified

3) need to add wall diagonal bracing to corner posts to prevent shear

I would think poles set 42" in the ground would be more than enough to resist shear???

4) need to notch 2x12 wall headers into posts, and headers should be laminated together

I have always seen them bolted or spiked onto side of poles (so outer header is inline with wall girts). Not even sure there's enough meat on a 4x6 to notch in double 2x12 headers.

5) need registered engineer to sign off on 16" cookie used for footing in my soil conditions

Great, will cost me $200-250 just to have someone tell me what we already know


I have asked CHA to provide what info they can on items 1-4, and I will handle the footing issue with a local engineer. But I was wondering if anyone else has run into issues like this for pole barns? I thought the construction and design was simple enough to be idiot proof.

For example, item 3 seems odd to me. There are dozens of pole barns along the road to my house, and I am sure I've never seen diagonal braces. The main difference is that those properties are zoned agricultural and the buildings are for agricultural use, so they probably didn't have to mess with permits. My land is also zoned agricultural, but in a residential area and I can't claim agricultural use.

here in idaho we had to do #1 but not #2.
As for #3, they make metal straps that are continuous that go on before 2x6 wall stringers. cost next to nothing.

#4 - we only bolt them on, no notching

#5 no engineering needed as long as we use the basic state footing guide....36" diameter x 4' deep at each post. I found with my house when i built it, the engineering costs actually decreased my concrete requirements. He saved me money.

 

[brokenknee]

Same rules here. I checked before I bought the land. My neighbor added on about 1000 sq ft more than doubling his living space and has had no increase in taxes after 5 or 6 years. I guess they don't even know he added on.

I never even checked before purchasing, just assumed I needed them. Last spring called added a 400 square foot addition. Builder said I didn't need a permit, called both the township and county to verify he was correct. As far as taxes on the addition; even though I live on forty acres and the house is located were you can not see it from any road, every body knows everything that goes on. My neighbors sister in law is the county tax assessor so I would assume it will only be a matter of time before the taxes catch up to me.

 

[Tollster]

They use satellite surveillance in the county court house to look for new construction in the county I reside, I saw it first hand while I awaited to fight my unfair assessment, having to pay an appraiser , then go against the board, only to have them tell me that they still have to charge me 10% more than the property was appraised at..

Go figure that out?

 

[Rustyiron]

It's getting so that you never really own your property.
1. In most places, you are controlled what they let you do with/on it.
2.The prop. tax never ends and never go's down. The mortgage at least will end!

 

[s219]

Thanks for all the comments -- if nothing else, it makes me feel better to hear some other stories and experience!

I got in touch with an engineer today regarding footings and soil, and hope to hear back tomorrow with a cost for his analysis. I might ask him to weigh in on the method for attaching headers to poles, as I think notching will mess up the general procedure CHA uses. Will be moving ahead with site grading later this week. Hopefully I can get revisions to drawings fairly quick and go back to the building inspector for re-evaluation.

 

[murphy1244]

It's getting so that you never really own your property.
1. In most places, you are controlled what they let you do with/on it.
2.The prop. tax never ends and never go's down. The mortgage at least will end!

I call it paying my yearly Ransom.

 

[murphy1244]

It's getting so that you never really own your property.
1. In most places, you are controlled what they let you do with/on it.
2.The prop. tax never ends and never go's down. The mortgage at least will end!

I call it paying my yearly Ransom.