Grading Box Blade and Rock Rake (a.k.a. york rake?) not really doing the job. Operator lacking skills?

[Piston]

In my opinion, the landscape rake is a waste of time. I don’t mean to sound negative, but after using a power rake (sometimes called Harley Rake) I found the landscape rake horribly ineffective.

Do you have a dealership nearby that rents implements? See if you can rent a PTO power rake.
If they don’t offer them, search marketplace in case someone is advertising a rental. If you could find one to rent it could be a huge help on removing a LOT of rocks.

I know these are very small rocks compared to what you have, but I have used this for larger rocks as well. It will work great on larger rocks too, but like everything, it has its limitations.

Do you have any photos of your project?

 

[jyoutz]

After a flood we had more rocks than dirt. It took years to sort them out.
We still have giant rock piles.

With the box blade and ripper, you have half the implements you need on your TLB.
The other tool is a rock bucket to pick up the rocks and leave the dirt behind.

Get one the same width as your dirt bucket, but with long rounded tines in front.
Houle and Bradco make the best ones. They are all SSQA, so will fit your B21 TLB.
You may have to shorten the width.
good luck,
rScotty

View attachment 875597View attachment 875598

Wow. What a mess. Hopefully you have some soil beneath those rocks.

 

[Notforhire]

Rent?

 

[Egon]

Your idea of using crushed aggregate as a pad for your equipment is probably the simplest option. Gives you a nice base to work on and set your equipment on.

 

[bdhsfz6]

If you're trying to create a stable area for a pad, why disturb the naturally compacted soil by removing the rocks? As others have said, have crushed stone hauled in and build up the surface. It will be much easier to level with the equipment you have.

IMO, the money is better spent on stone, rather than buying / renting equipment, or hiring someone to do the work.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[joea99]

What model box blade do you have?

Do you understand the principle of using the rear blade of your box blade, as a "gauge wheel" and keeping your top link in float?

The rocks will still be a PIA no matter what, but if there is enough dirt to fill the box completely, and then use your rear blade as a gauge wheel of sorts, you should be able to make some progress with the tools you already have.

I know this pic shows smooth dirt and not what you are dealing with, but just an example. In this pic, the box is completely full (even if a lot of rocks pile up). If you can keep it full, the weight and amount of dirt in there will help the box blade leave a smoother finish. In this pic, my top link is in float, and I adjust the “cut” of the front blade simply by raising/lowering the 3 point hitch in small amounts. This will open up (or close) a small gap under the front blade, allowing only the fines to filter underneath the front blade, while the rear blade packs it down and rides on a level surface.

Using the top link in float like this will solve 90% of your problems related to pitching motion of the box blade when your tractor goes over a bunch of bumps/dips.

It's a Woods BSS54.

"Top link in Float" threw me for a moment as I know of no specific control for that. But apparently in this case it is just fully lowering the implement, so it "floats". Makes sense?

Keeping the box "full-ish" works well also when dealing with "looser-er" material. But hitting rocks, root remains, or old stumps is a near constant issue. There seem to be an unending supply of those. Will experiement a bit more trying to dig deeper. But, I am limited by traction and horsepower. And Cojones, maybe.

 

[joea99]

I have rocky clay and sandy soil depending upon the location... but lots of rocks. I reclaimed the neighbors field last year to make it suitable for mowing.
The rocks in these soils are in endless supply. Sinking rippers in is just asking for more rock to come up. What is done is done.
So now you have lots of rocks 3-12 inches. You are going to have to hand pick and load the big ones. Then you can start raking the 6" minus rocks into rows by angling the rake and going kinda slow. This is called windrowing. You can keep pushing the windrow until it gets too big and then just start fresh and begin another row. I would not use gauge wheels but a steady hand on the top and tilt to see what works best. Don't try to get all done in one pass. When you get the majority of rocks gathered, I use a rock bucket to collect windrows. Do it again, and again if needed. Take your time its a big job

That's what I have been learning. And now I know at least one definition of "windrowring".

Cute what you did with the angle control of your rake. I can control that manually.

Been hand picking the bigger ones. I can use the workout.

Going slowly is the most difficult part for me. "Relaxing while working" has not been my forte. But, I can be trained. Eventually.

Today is another day.

 

[rScotty]

Wow. What a mess. Hopefully you have some soil beneath those rocks.

If you look real closely at the photo you can see what we thought was soil between some rocks and on the steps. At least in my ignorance I thought it was usable soil, but it turns out to be a mixture of sand and powdered rock. Now I see in that old photo that the rocks are so clean and smooth I know now that I should have figured out what I was looking at... but I didn't at the time.
The washed sand and rock dust is worse than complely sterile. Even after the rocks were removed and topsoil plus fertilizer mixed in, that rock dust "soil" just does not grow anything well. Not yet...and it's been ten years.
BTW, can you see what she is digging up? It's our oxy/acetylene torch set....
rScotty

 

[jyoutz]

If you look real closely at the photo you can see what we thought was soil between some rocks and on the steps. At least in my ignorance I thought it was usable soil, but it turns out to be a mixture of sand and powdered rock. Now I see in that old photo that the rocks are so clean and smooth I know now that I should have figured out what I was looking at... but I didn't at the time.
The washed sand and rock dust is worse than complely sterile. Even after the rocks were removed and topsoil plus fertilizer mixed in, that rock dust "soil" just does not grow anything well. Not yet...and it's been ten years.
BTW, can you see what she is digging up? It's our oxy/acetylene torch set....
rScotty

View attachment 875812

Wow, what a job. Do you live in Thompson Canyon? I remember some bad floods there about 12 years ago.

 

[rScotty]

Wow, what a job. Do you live in Thompson Canyon? I remember some bad floods there about 12 years ago.

Not too far away. They got it worse.

 

[joea99]

If you look real closely at the photo you can see what we thought was soil between some rocks and on the steps. At least in my ignorance I thought it was usable soil, but it turns out to be a mixture of sand and powdered rock. Now I see in that old photo that the rocks are so clean and smooth I know now that I should have figured out what I was looking at... but I didn't at the time.
The washed sand and rock dust is worse than complely sterile. Even after the rocks were removed and topsoil plus fertilizer mixed in, that rock dust "soil" just does not grow anything well. Not yet...and it's been ten years.
BTW, can you see what she is digging up? It's our oxy/acetylene torch set....
rScotty

View attachment 875812

WOW. Flood or "slide"? How did the house make out?

 

[Piston]

It's a Woods BSS54.

"Top link in Float" threw me for a moment as I know of no specific control for that. But apparently in this case it is just fully lowering the implement, so it "floats". Makes sense?

Keeping the box "full-ish" works well also when dealing with "looser-er" material. But hitting rocks, root remains, or old stumps is a near constant issue. There seem to be an unending supply of those. Will experiement a bit more trying to dig deeper. But, I am limited by traction and horsepower. And Cojones, maybe.

No, "float" refers to the ability for the hydraulic cylinder to extend and retract on it's own, with no pressure on either side of the cylinder ports to stop it. In other words, if you put it in float, you could literally push/pull the cylinder rod in and out of the barrel, extending and retracting it with your hands.
Typically, your hydraulic valve will have a detent position, sometimes it's float, sometimes it's others. It's the same principle as using your front end loader in 'float' mode, which is obtained by pushing your loader joystick all the way forward to lower your loader, and then pushing it further past the 'detent' which will allow it to move with the undulations of the dirt as you back blade or push forward.

Try moving your top link cylinder valve all the way forward (or back) and then 'pushing' it a little more. If there is a detent, you should feel it.

Normally, as you move your 3 point hitch control up or down when your box blade is on the ground, it will raise and lower the box blade as a whole. When the top link cylinder is in 'float' mode, the 3 point hitch will only change the angle of the blades contacting the ground, and will not pick it up off the ground, since your top link will simply extend as you raise your 3 point hitch arms.

Try this, it is the 'trick' that practically eliminates your pitching motion problems. You can work much faster when you master this technique, and be considerably more effective with better results.

Lastly, I also put my side link in float mode when there is a lot of side to side action. By using the rear blade of the box blade as a 'gauge', the tractor is allowed to pitch up and down, and 'roll' side to side, however the box blade stays surprisingly level/plumb/stabil since the rear blade is moving over smooth ground.

 

[joea99]

If you're trying to create a stable area for a pad, why disturb the naturally compacted soil by removing the rocks? As others have said, have crushed stone hauled in and build up the surface. It will be much easier to level with the equipment you have.

IMO, the money is better spent on stone, rather than buying / renting equipment, or hiring someone to do the work.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, I can be thick headed at times.Too many half baked ideas running loose.

In the dark recesses of what passes for a thinking process I kinda hoped that with a few days extra work, I could "harvest" enough rocks to help fill in/reshape a low area of my road, packing in aggregate as I built it up.

Another thought was, this might not be where I want the "permanent" location to be, once I cleared out more woods and would have "wasted" the aggregate.

And I am . . . frugal. Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. Frugal.

 

[rScotty]

WOW. Flood or "slide"? How did the house make out?

Barn & house did fine. Little damage. Well sealed windows and doors plus a full foundation down into bedrock. It's all typical belt and suspenders overbuilding.
Several houses, one tractor, and a lot of propane tanks bounced off the barn and house as they floated by. We did have to repair some outside trim.

 

[joea99]

No, "float" refers to the ability for the hydraulic cylinder to extend and retract on it's own, with no pressure on either side of the cylinder ports to stop it. In other words, if you put it in float, you could literally push/pull the cylinder rod in and out of the barrel, extending and retracting it with your hands.
Typically, your hydraulic valve will have a detent position, sometimes it's float, sometimes it's others. It's the same principle as using your front end loader in 'float' mode, which is obtained by pushing your loader joystick all the way forward to lower your loader, and then pushing it further past the 'detent' which will allow it to move with the undulations of the dirt as you back blade or push forward.

Try moving your top link cylinder valve all the way forward (or back) and then 'pushing' it a little more. If there is a detent, you should feel it.

Normally, as you move your 3 point hitch control up or down when your box blade is on the ground, it will raise and lower the box blade as a whole. When the top link cylinder is in 'float' mode, the 3 point hitch will only change the angle of the blades contacting the ground, and will not pick it up off the ground, since your top link will simply extend as you raise your 3 point hitch arms.

Try this, it is the 'trick' that practically eliminates your pitching motion problems. You can work much faster when you master this technique, and be considerably more effective with better results.

Lastly, I also put my side link in float mode when there is a lot of side to side action. By using the rear blade of the box blade as a 'gauge', the tractor is allowed to pitch up and down, and 'roll' side to side, however the box blade stays surprisingly level/plumb/stabil since the rear blade is moving over smooth ground.

At first I thought that was what was meant, like the float on the FEL. Did not pick up that he meant the top link control.

My top link valve is a simple open center spool no detent. Summit hydraulics 2 spool mono block.

I did not see the need for a float at the time, not even sure they offered one then. Just looked and see they offer basically the same valve with a float on a single spool or both. Space is tight in the area the valve is mounted, the longer "spool" may prove a problem.

The ability to do that might prove very useful. We learn as we go, I guess. Thanks for the education.

 

[jmc]

If you mentioned how big an area you're working, I missed it.

Have you tried scooping your 4 in 1 bucket somewhat full of rocks/soil, cracking open the bucket just enough to retain the smallest rocks you want to remove, and rattling the bucket so the dirt falls thru the crack at the bottom? Dry dirt would help.

 

[joea99]

If you mentioned how big an area you're working, I missed it.

Have you tried scooping your 4 in 1 bucket somewhat full of rocks/soil, cracking open the bucket just enough to retain the smallest rocks you want to remove, and rattling the bucket so the dirt falls thru the crack at the bottom? Dry dirt would help.

Roughly 30 x 60 I guess. For now. Still a lot of trees to clear out.

I did think of that and it might work now that I've torn up enough for it to dry out. But a couple inches down it is still dark and damp. Earlier also mentioned making a "basket" to fit in the bucket, to open it wider.

Pricing SSQA conversion kit and various attachments is bringing me down a bit. But, I have been known to get over sticker shock pretty quickly. But only for toys. Materials still give me neck strain.

Probably a good thing some 90+ weather is forecast this week. That should put a hold on my foolishness and let me rethink things in air conditioned comfort. And total sobriety. Well, that may be optional.

Someone asked for some pictures/

 

[Piston]

I think you would be amazed at what a power rake could do for you. My local dealership rents them out for $150/day. If you were closer to me I would let you try mine and see for yourself...

Using your front end loader to move the big rocks, and the power rake to move the small rocks, you would likely have a very nice finish in that area.

However, based on your photos, it does "look" like repetitive passes with you landscape rake could give you acceptable results. Pictures may not be doing it justice however, so it's easy for me to say as an armchair expert!

Spend some time in that air conditioning looking up videos of power rakes and "rockhounds" in rocky ground, on youtube. It should give you the motivation needed to call around and find one for rent.

 

[vagem55]

How much weight do you add with the SSQA? Won't that reduce your already limited loader lift capability?

 

[Notforhire]

How much weight do you add with the SSQA? Won't that reduce your already limited loader lift capability?

You also move the attachment forward which also reduces your lift capacity.