Grading Box Blade and Rock Rake (a.k.a. york rake?) not really doing the job. Operator lacking skills?

[joea99]

Home owner with a Kubota B21 TLB, Woods box scraper and EA rock rake.

Attempting to level, more or less, an area of mixed soil and LOTS of rocks, ranging from "eggs" to a foot or more. Some are rounded, like "river rocks" some are sharp edged as if newly broken up. Might be "fill", but that is not documented and if it is, is many decades old. Lets throw in hidden roots and whatever root balls I may have missed when clearing out fairly dense woods. Mixed soft and hard woods from saplings to 24".

Did not expect this to be "easy" but, did not expect it to be this frustrating.

Thought that after a few passes with box scraper scarifiers "deep" and manually removing the "big rocks", I'd eventually get to the point I could begin "leveling" with the scarifiers less aggressive or removed. Not happening as there always seem to be "more rocks", just big enough to present problems.

But, the bigger issue seems to be "depth control" and "tilt" control, which, for the most part, seem very difficult to manage, even with the hydraulic top and tilt.

Thinking the rock rake might be a better solution, as far as getting the rocks out anyway, tried that. Right now I am running in reverse, with the rake pointing "aft", main reason being those "spring tines" can bend quite a bit on bigger rocks and might use my head for target practice. The other reason is allows me to push the debris out of the tractor path making a second pass simpler.

So, that said, what I see the problems being are
1 - the tractor pitches both side to side and end to end, and the implement "follows at a distance", so I would have to move extremely slowly and make almost constant adjustment to the implement. Maybe keeping the implement "high" and making many more passes is the answer here?
2 - the rocks that seem to "spring up out of the ground" in anticipation of my implements arrival cause the implement to "bounce".

I'm off to HF for some cheap magnetic spirit levels, currently "on sale" hoping that attaching them to the implements will allow me to address #1 a bit more precisely.

It's entirely possible the equipment I have is simply not well suited to the task, but, I'm pretty much stuck with what I have as hiring someone or renting for the week or month (at the pace I work at 70+), is not in the cards. Especially as I have a house addition in the plans.

Not sure if I'm looking for tutorials, advice, or just venting, but, there it is.

 

[Roadworthy]

Decide what your desired end result will be. Get estimates from two or three guys who do this kind of work. I do not believe your equipment is up to the job. You could probably do it given enough time. You may be pleasantly surprised how cheap it is to have someone with bigger equipment come in and do the job. I was.

 

[MattB4]

If you have more rocks than soil there is only so much you can do to remove them and end up with level ground. As you are finding out each one you pop up allows more to show. Also since you have roots that grab your implement as you go this makes it even more difficult.

You would be better to have soil (without rocks!) brought in and cover the rocks.

 

[joea99]

Decide what your desired end result will be. Get estimates from two or three guys who do this kind of work. I do not believe your equipment is up to the job. You could probably do it given enough time. You may be pleasantly surprised how cheap it is to have someone with bigger equipment come in and do the job. I was.

I've done that in the past for other tasks. One reason I started trying to do more things myself.

 

[Notforhire]

Do you have gauge wheels on your rake? They help keep the rake running level instead of following the pitch of the tractor.

 

[joea99]

If you have more rocks than soil there is only so much you can do to remove them and end up with level ground. As you are finding out each one you pop up allows more to show. Also since you have roots that grab your implement as you go this makes it even more difficult.

You would be better to have soil (without rocks!) brought in and cover the rocks.

There is more dirt that just "fill in between the rocks", but, there are a lot of rocks.

I've been told before that hauling in dirt is the way to go, if looking to make usable yard space.

Problem being there are lots of people selling "screened top soil" for lawns and raised garden beds, at breathtaking prices, but not many selling "clean fill", which is more what I would want for this situation.

The idea here, to start with, was to create a level enough area to place a Woodland mills HM126 band saw mill and start making boards for future use. Shed/barn/garage or some hybrid using shipping containers.

It may be simpler, for now, to bring in some crushed stone with fines, ("road base", "item 4", "crusher run") and compact that down, wide enough for the mill and a walkway, and get on with it things.

 

[joea99]

Do you have gauge wheels on your rake? They help keep the rake running level instead of following the pitch of the tractor.

I have them, never used them. Thought about it in this case, but understood they were mainly for "finish work", like preparing a lawn or some such.

Might was well give it a try. Hope springs eternal. I think I spelled those right.

 

[rScotty]

After a flood we had more rocks than dirt. It took years to sort them out.
We still have giant rock piles.

With the box blade and ripper, you have half the implements you need on your TLB.
The other tool is a rock bucket to pick up the rocks and leave the dirt behind.

Get one the same width as your dirt bucket, but with long rounded tines in front.
Houle and Bradco make the best ones. They are all SSQA, so will fit your B21 TLB.
You may have to shorten the width.
good luck,
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Here is an example of the right type of rock bucket. Note the long rounded tines. A subtle difference, but it does twice the work of the rock bucket wit flat tines. We have both types.

The flat tine type - like you see in the previous post - will work. Better than nothing. I don''t know of any other way to sort rocks than a FEL rock bucket. We do have a decent heavy rock rake thatis a good one with flip-down blade, tilt, and trailing wheels. But it won't do anything with rocks at all.

 

[MattB4]

...

The idea here, to start with, was to create a level enough area to place a Woodland mills HM126 band saw mill and start making boards for future use. Shed/barn/garage or some hybrid using shipping containers.

It may be simpler, for now, to bring in some crushed stone with fines, ("road base", "item 4", "crusher run") and compact that down, wide enough for the mill and a walkway, and get on with it things.

If you have a commercial saw mill in the area, and if they are willing to sell sawdust and wood chips, I found that a few loads of those over rocky uneven land is a quick way to get a level pad. They decay with time and create soil. But other than that the crusher fines are a good option.

 

[joea99]

After a flood we had more rocks than dirt. It took years to sort them out.
We still have giant rock piles.

With the box blade and ripper, you have half the implements you need on your TLB.
The other tool is a rock bucket to pick up the rocks and leave the dirt behind.

Get one the same width as your dirt bucket, but with long rounded tines in front.
Houle and Bradco make the best ones. They are all SSQA, so will fit your B21 TLB.
You may have to shorten the width.
good luck,
rScotty

View attachment 875597View attachment 875598

Something like that had crossed my mind.

My machine has a WR Long 4n1 bucket on the front now which I had considered making a "basket" for.

Thinking that fabricating some sort of grid that fit, more or less, into the bucket but did not interfere with the jaw opening, or moved when opening, allowing the dirt to fall through.

But no SSQA. I've often thought it would be cool to be able to have one, for pallet forks, etc. Is there a kit or info you know of for B21? The loader is a TL421.

 

[joea99]

If you have a commercial saw mill in the area, and if they are willing to sell sawdust and wood chips, I found that a few loads of those over rocky uneven land is a quick way to get a level pad. They decay with time and create soil. But other than that the crusher fines are a good option.

I have a good size pile of white pine chips left from when I hired a crew to take down 3 or 4 BIG pine close to the house and power lines.

At the very least I could use those as a walkway for pushing that sawmill carriage. If my aging body holds up to it that is.

 

[thebonepile]

yes it is the rocks that are causing the problems - you must remove rocks from the top ??" (you can pick depending on final use) then you can smooth -
good luck

 

[joea99]

Something like that had crossed my mind.

My machine has a WR Long 4n1 bucket on the front now which I had considered making a "basket" for.

Thinking that fabricating some sort of grid that fit, more or less, into the bucket but did not interfere with the jaw opening, or moved when opening, allowing the dirt to fall through.

But no SSQA. I've often thought it would be cool to be able to have one, for pallet forks, etc. Is there a kit or info you know of for B21? The loader is a TL421.

Anyone familiar with this outfit?

Kubota TL420 Quick Attach Conversion-Ask Tractor Mike

Converts Kubota TL420, TL421 & B21 Pin-Type Front End Loader to Skid Steer Quick Attach. Weld on bracket. Ask Tractor Mike

asktractormike.com

 

[joea99]

Anyone familiar with this outfit?

Kubota TL420 Quick Attach Conversion-Ask Tractor Mike

Converts Kubota TL420, TL421 & B21 Pin-Type Front End Loader to Skid Steer Quick Attach. Weld on bracket. Ask Tractor Mike

asktractormike.com

I think they are only a "dealer", but seems I have found the outfit that makes them.

 

[cmyoung2]

Something like that had crossed my mind.

My machine has a WR Long 4n1 bucket on the front now which I had considered making a "basket" for.

Thinking that fabricating some sort of grid that fit, more or less, into the bucket but did not interfere with the jaw opening, or moved when opening, allowing the dirt to fall through.

But no SSQA. I've often thought it would be cool to be able to have one, for pallet forks, etc. Is there a kit or info you know of for B21? The loader is a TL421.

My Kubota L3600 had a pin on 4n1 bucket,WR Long, on a Great Bend loader. I ordered a SSQA from WR Long, unpinned the bucket, added the SSQA, picked up a grapple and forks, and after a year finally converted the bucket to SSQA. Glad I did it when I got the tractor, use the forks and grapple a lot, bucket not so much. But with the 4n1 the loader has hydraulics up front for the grapple.. WR Long probably has or can make the parts for your loader and will have the parts to convert you bucket.. At our age, do it sooner than later.

 

[joea99]

My Kubota L3600 had a pin on 4n1 bucket,WR Long, on a Great Bend loader. I ordered a SSQA from WR Long, unpinned the bucket, added the SSQA, picked up a grapple and forks, and after a year finally converted the bucket to SSQA. Glad I did it when I got the tractor, use the forks and grapple a lot, bucket not so much. But with the 4n1 the loader has hydraulics up front for the grapple.. WR Long probably has or can make the parts for your loader and will have the parts to convert you bucket.. At our age, do it sooner than later.

Makes a lot more sense to go the SSQA way. Lots of options from there. Many times I have wanted to have something else on the front end. Oh, deary deary me. Well, that's one positive of being divorced, one less person to argue with over money!

Sent an email to WR Long asking those very questions. Right now inclined to go with the ATI, which comes with a weld on bracket, which is one large rectangular piece. The WR Long Brackets come as two pieces much smaller almost square. I think I've already made up my mind to do it, just not clear on which one, or to mix and match.

I don't think they sell direct, hopefully can find a flexible dealer.

 

[joea99]

My Kubota L3600 had a pin on 4n1 bucket,WR Long, on a Great Bend loader. I ordered a SSQA from WR Long, unpinned the bucket, added the SSQA, picked up a grapple and forks, and after a year finally converted the bucket to SSQA. Glad I did it when I got the tractor, use the forks and grapple a lot, bucket not so much. But with the 4n1 the loader has hydraulics up front for the grapple.. WR Long probably has or can make the parts for your loader and will have the parts to convert you bucket.. At our age, do it sooner than later.

Mind telling me what their kit cost? And how long ago, to account for inflation?

 

[Piston]

What model box blade do you have?

Do you understand the principle of using the rear blade of your box blade, as a "gauge wheel" and keeping your top link in float?

The rocks will still be a PIA no matter what, but if there is enough dirt to fill the box completely, and then use your rear blade as a gauge wheel of sorts, you should be able to make some progress with the tools you already have.

I know this pic shows smooth dirt and not what you are dealing with, but just an example. In this pic, the box is completely full (even if a lot of rocks pile up). If you can keep it full, the weight and amount of dirt in there will help the box blade leave a smoother finish. In this pic, my top link is in float, and I adjust the “cut” of the front blade simply by raising/lowering the 3 point hitch in small amounts. This will open up (or close) a small gap under the front blade, allowing only the fines to filter underneath the front blade, while the rear blade packs it down and rides on a level surface.

Using the top link in float like this will solve 90% of your problems related to pitching motion of the box blade when your tractor goes over a bunch of bumps/dips.

 

[scootr]

I have rocky clay and sandy soil depending upon the location... but lots of rocks. I reclaimed the neighbors field last year to make it suitable for mowing.
The rocks in these soils are in endless supply. Sinking rippers in is just asking for more rock to come up. What is done is done.
So now you have lots of rocks 3-12 inches. You are going to have to hand pick and load the big ones. Then you can start raking the 6" minus rocks into rows by angling the rake and going kinda slow. This is called windrowing. You can keep pushing the windrow until it gets too big and then just start fresh and begin another row. I would not use gauge wheels but a steady hand on the top and tilt to see what works best. Don't try to get all done in one pass. When you get the majority of rocks gathered, I use a rock bucket to collect windrows. Do it again, and again if needed. Take your time its a big job.