Bigger HST machines.

[RickB]

Agreed. But I am not arguing just pointing out it can be done. I personally prefer geared tractors.

I don't see where anyone claimed it couldn't be done. IH built hydro drive tractors over 100 engine hp for 2 or 3 decades. They were great for a small specific group of jobs. If they were practical and economical to fill the market's broader needs somebody would be building them today.

 

[LD1]

An IVT or CVT transmission will work much like the hydo's the AGCO ones seem to be more intuitive to operate.
Also a power shift with a left hand reverser will out perform a hydro.
There are a few larger Ag hydros the IH's have been off the market for many years the older 86 and 26 series.
However the New Holland and Versatile bi-directional tractors were hydos and they are newer then the IH's.

May may work "much like" the HST....but they are not. Anything but a hst would be a step backwards for what I do.

HST has more losses, can’t run at a truly consistent speed (for spraying, seeding, etc), overheats with constant PTO field use (due to the inherent inefficiency….energy is given off as heat). What use case do you have for a HST for field work?

I don't need a consistent speed. 95% of what I do is mowing. And the overheating should be a non issue. Dozers, big combines, skid loader all have HST. So I find it unlikely that keeping an engine cool is even a factor.

A geared MX5100 wouldn't give you the feeling of needing more HP that the HST MX5100 gives you.

Don't matter what trans or how much power.....there is always gonna be a time where it "feels" like you need more power. A gear tractor don't have that much more pto power to likely even notice.

Rather the gear tractor is probably gonna be selected in a gear that is slower than I want.....but the next step up is too fast.....and I'd be cursing the limited speed selections. So going slower than "ideal"....sure it may seem like ample power

Combines don't earn their keep by applying horsepower to tractive effort. A better argument would involve high hp hydrostatic drive dozers. But they spend 50% of their time backing up and accomplishing very little. Hydrostatic transmissions lack the efficiency the market demands in applications where high duty cycles and high drawbar loads exist. So nobody builds them.

Alot op people that are in the 50-75hp market aren't earning their keep with tractive force either.

Rather they are like me....wanting something to mow. Or a dozen other tasks that don't require high traction most of the time.

 

[RickB]

I guess you're doomed to disappointment.
Or you're gonna have to open your eyes to something unfamiliar.
Kinda like the crowd that would never have a truck with an automatic.

 

[K5lwq]

I don't see where anyone claimed it couldn't be done. IH built hydro drive tractors over 100 engine hp for 2 or 3 decades. They were great for a small specific group of jobs. If they were practical and economical to fill the market's broader needs somebody would be building them today.

Maybe I misunderstood post #2. Carry on.

 

[ptsg]

Don't matter what trans or how much power.....there is always gonna be a time where it "feels" like you need more power. A gear tractor don't have that much more pto power to likely even notice.

Rather the gear tractor is probably gonna be selected in a gear that is slower than I want.....but the next step up is too fast.....and I'd be cursing the limited speed selections. So going slower than "ideal"....sure it may seem like ample power

But you don't have a inefficient hydrostatic transmission stealing all of the HP that otherwise would be available at the PTO. While a geared tractor won't need much HP to get it going.

Slower gear? Nope, you go with the higher gear and it would go just fine, because you do have more power available that is not just being just wasted.

 

[RickB]

Maybe I misunderstood post #2. Carry on.

I'm not seeing post #2. Looks like it may have been deleted?

 

[Jchonline]

If All you are talking about is mowing...I suppose. Cruise control on HST kinda sucks when you are turning to make another pass...have you tried it? There might be a HST machine or 2 out there that will slow in a turn, but you don't really have control of that speed. I still politely disagree and would choose geared shuttle anyday. That said we all have our own opinions!

 

[Richard]

I mow probably 300-400 acres a year with an 8' cutter.

Where I live, (wife's family farm, about 250 acres, maybe 50/50 woods/fields?)

I used to cut the place with their IH 444 and 5' rotary as her father & uncle were getting older and unable. Finally, I decided one summer that living life was more interesting than spending nearly the entire summer cutting "their" land (which my wife now owns part of so I wasn't blind to that progression) AND, I paid for the fuel to cut their land.

(I'm such a dang good son-in-law)

I finally stopped cutting and miracles of miracles, a year later, an International 980 shows up with a 10' HD Rhino mower! So now I can get moving.

Father in law passed and his son sold the IH and Rhino (never asking if I might want to buy it from the Estate)

So given that I live here and now we have NOTHING to cut the place with and not wanting to rely on any tempermental family members, I bought my own IH-1066 and a 15' flexwing.

Now, if I bust my hiney, I can cut the entire place in a single day OR, I can be more casual about it (I enjoy cutting the fields) and do it over a couple days.

I've got to agree....can't believe that you're not using a larger mower. I've been considering getting a 20' flexwing.

 

[LD1]

But you don't have a inefficient hydrostatic transmission stealing all of the HP that otherwise would be available at the PTO. While a geared tractor won't need much HP to get it going.

Slower gear? Nope, you go with the higher gear and it would go just fine, because you do have more power available that is not just being just wasted.

What I have is the most efficient mowing machine I can find to pull a 8' twin.

Very very seldom do I have to slow down due to lack of power. Rather it's because of rough terrain, mowing around/close to things, etc. The gear version of my tractor has:
5th....4.7mph
6th...6.7 mph
7th...10.9mph

My medium range is 0-7.3.

7.3 mph is about as fast as one can go without sacrificing cut quality and outrunning the mower. 6.5-7 is about perfect. So the gear machine in 6th would work well. Except if I hit a thick patch, rough area, etc....4.7 is a big drop.

Not sure why you are trying so hard to convince me that HST is so terrible. I have mowed thousands of acres with a shuttle and thousands with a HST. HST wins hands down. The gear machine would do nothing but slow me down and wear me out shifting constantly

 

[LD1]

If All you are talking about is mowing...I suppose. Cruise control on HST kinda sucks when you are turning to make another pass...have you tried it? There might be a HST machine or 2 out there that will slow in a turn, but you don't really have control of that speed. I still politely disagree and would choose geared shuttle anyday. That said we all have our own opinions!

No I don't use cruise.

If you have mowed thousands of acres with both.....of all sorts of varying terrain, vegetation, and obstacles....I bet you wouldn't be too keen on a shuttle.

Wide open 30 acres of smooth field with a 15' batwing and only mowing it a couple times a year....sure....a shuttle would suffice. But hundreds of acres a year comprised of 1-40 acre jobs, varying vegetation, rough horse pastures, hundreds of trees to mow around, etc.....there is nothing even close to a HST is ease of speed and direction changing