Bigger HST machines.

[ptsg]

Not sure why you are trying so hard to convince me that HST is so terrible. I have mowed thousands of acres with a shuttle and thousands with a HST. HST wins hands down. The gear machine would do nothing but slow me down and wear me out shifting constantly

I guess it's the same way you're trying to convince everyone how a Gear transmission is so terrible and how hard is to change gears.

Looks like Kubota still doesn't offer a 12x12 transmission on their geared tractors? Most of the other manufacturers will offer a 12x12 and some will offer a 16x16. It's plenty enough, specially for mowing. If you really end up having to slow down, you can simply back off the throttle a little bit and won't change the cut whatsoever.

Anyways, we're not afraid of using a clutch on this side of the pond and it's not a big deal to change gears. We use it everyday, all day long and I haven't heard of anyone losing a left leg because they used a clutch all day long.

 

[ptsg]

How much power to you think a HST trans is robbing to drive a tractor across the ground? A bare bones gear tractor with a dry clutch and only 4 gears with a hi/low would have no chance at beating his HST at the job he’s doing.

On flat ground? I would say somewhere between 15% and 25%. On a slight hill? Probably 20 to 35%. And all of this with a lot of whine under the seat.

If I'm wrong then, go over the threads with people say that the tractor can barely move in high range on a flat surface. Why pay for the high range on a HST? Might as well just pay less and have only low and medium range.

 

[RickB]

On flat ground? I would say somewhere between 15% and 25%. On a slight hill? Probably 20 to 35%. And all of this with a lone of whine under the seat.

If I'm wrong then, go over the threads with people say that the tractor can barely move in high range on a flat surface. Why pay for the high range on a HST? Might as well just pay less and have only low and medium range.

Yeah, this HST efficiency topic seems to come up about every month or so. Funny thing is the claims don't change, but the facts don't either.

 

[LD1]

On flat ground? I would say somewhere between 15% and 25%. On a slight hill? Probably 20 to 35%. And all of this with a lot of whine under the seat.

If I'm wrong then, go over the threads with people say that the tractor can barely move in high range on a flat surface. Why pay for the high range on a HST? Might as well just pay less and have only low and medium range.

Not trying to convince anyone that gears are terrible. They have their place. Just not in my stable for a mowing machine. I already fight issues with my left knee.

There is no doubt a gear/shuttle will do the job and do it fine. But for what I do....HST is better and more efficient. Meaning I can mow faster and more acres per hour. If for nothing else it's ability to change speed and direction so quickly.

If you like mowing with a gear, great, I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise. This thread was not meant to be a HST vs gear debate. It was simply meant to ask of there were others such as myself that would buy a HST machine if offered in the next size up....and whether anyone knew if it was on the scope of an manufactures future plans.

You and others took it upon yourselves to interject in my post about how bad HST is and trying to convince me a gear is the way to go. Again, NOT what this post is about. But kudos to you for trying to push me in that direction even though it's a futile endeavor

 

[ptsg]

The thread is not about Gear vs HST? Really? So you were expecting anything else from this thread? Because I sure didn't expect any other outcome.

 

[LouNY]

I'm probably a similar sort of oddball then, because an HST in the 70 to 100HP range does make sense to me for certain types of tasks (especially if the manufacturer have enough sense to leverage a higher flow to the remote valves).

While an HST may not be optimal for draft work there are a lot of other tasks where having the 3PT, PTO, and loader on a larger frame tractor makes a lot of sense. Granted on some farms a lot of those tasks are currently being performed by skidsteers, telehandlers or other hydrostatic machines (potentially in the same weight range as 70-140HP tractors).

Really what would be ideal is a tractor in that HP range with a fully mechanical drive train to the PTO, but hydraulic drive to the wheels. Something that's less a tractor for pulling things and more a "PTO on wheels"

I am not aware of any "tractor" that does not have a mechanical drive for the pto.
I guess I should temper that a bit some of the JD Tractor Loaders that didn't get the backhoe part of the TLB did offer an optional hydraulic driven pto.
So I should say any "ag" style tractor.

 

[arrow]

The thread is not about Gear vs HST? Really? So you were expecting anything else from this thread? Because I sure didn't expect any other outcome.

That happens a lot here. People can't separate their personal preferences from the original question. LD is dead correct that it begs the question in the first place. They make bulldozers with hydraulic drives for seven sakes.
The question was: does anyone here have inside info of subsequent tractors that are of larger frame coming out with HST?
LD, I will ask my connections w Mahindra. Give me a minute.

 

[jjp8182]

I am not aware of any "tractor" that does not have a mechanical drive for the pto.
I guess I should temper that a bit some of the JD Tractor Loaders that didn't get the backhoe part of the TLB did offer an optional hydraulic driven pto.
So I should say any "ag" style tractor.

yeah, about the only machine(s) I know of that uses/used(?) hydraulic drive to a PTO on the factory-built machine are the Bobcat Toolcats - and some of the newer cultivating/weeding tractors where the PTO is optional and it uses a hydraulic motor.

Though with as many different tractor manufactures and as many models as there are I figured it'd be worth just stating what is desired ...particularly when the phrase "robs power from the PTO" is being used since that phrase almost makes it seem like the power being sent to the hydraulic pump(s) vs. PTO isn't the outcome a deliberate engineering decision.

For some of types of work being discussed, it'd almost be about as fair to say that the drive to the wheels (whether gear or HST) is robbing power from the PTO ...especially if/when the engine speed changes to hit a certain required/needed ground speed.

 

[arrow]

LD, Mahindra makes this tractor in HST:

It is the 2660 and is of TYM product manufacture and bare tractor weight is 4145 lbs. New_2600_Brochure_FINAL_2.pdf

 

[Jchonline]

Fair enough @LD1 . My only suggestion is that you spell out the fact that you are not at all interested in a gear tractor for the reasons you waited until a much later post to specify. If I see anything new in the pipeline for utility HST tractors I will definitely reach out!

 

[sd455dan]

LD, Mahindra makes this tractor in HST: View attachment 703013
It is the 2660 and is of TYM product manufacture and bare tractor weight is 4145 lbs. New_2600_Brochure_FINAL_2.pdf

That happens a lot here. People can't separate their personal preferences from the original question. LD is dead correct that it begs the question in the first place. They make bulldozers with hydraulic drives for seven sakes.
The question was: does anyone here have inside info of subsequent tractors that are of larger frame coming out with HST?
LD, I will ask my connections w Mahindra. Give me a minute.

the question gets asked once in a while on TBN
I cant understand why none of the manufacturers don't just buy the Eaton 46 hydros for larger step up tractors than what they now offer.

Versatile used them in the 75 HP model 150, a 3 range hydro. from most user statements they are a quiet hydrostat and getting 10000 hours out of them is not unheard of.. the model 9030 New Holland is 105 HP and also uses the Eaton 3 range hydro.

 

[4570Man]

On flat ground? I would say somewhere between 15% and 25%. On a slight hill? Probably 20 to 35%. And all of this with a lot of whine under the seat.

If I'm wrong then, go over the threads with people say that the tractor can barely move in high range on a flat surface. Why pay for the high range on a HST? Might as well just pay less and have only low and medium range.

You think a HST is robbing between 15-35 percent just to drive the tractor? Sorry not even close. And the bigger tractors don’t whine either. My L3240 didn’t whine, my M59 doesn’t whine, my skid loader doesn’t whine, my L3800 whines a lot. There’s definitely a lot of people that don’t know how to use a HST that give them a bad rap. I’ve had several vehicles with a clutch and I currently have 2 with a clutch but my tractors aren’t having one.

 

[ArlyA]

Our hydrostatic transmission's (HST) do indeed loose quite a bit of your engines HP. How much depends on where its being operated in its power cure. These losses is why larger HP machines tend use to use HST drives less commonly.

More can be read about it here.

 

[LD1]

Fair enough @LD1 . My only suggestion is that you spell out the fact that you are not at all interested in a gear tractor for the reasons you waited until a much later post to specify. If I see anything new in the pipeline for utility HST tractors I will definitely reach out!

I didnt really think I would have to spell out the exact detail of how I use the machine.

I asked a simple question.....and the fact that "gear" was not even mentioned in my original post.

Was met with nothing but everyone trying to convince me that HST is bad and that I should switch to a shuttle when that was NOT even the topic of discussion. I could care less what other people think is a better choice or what they prefer. I know what I want plain and simple.....and nothing holds a candle to HST. So I just wish everyone would quit the BS gear vs hydro debate. This has got to be as stupid and childish as a couple of kindergarteners arguing about green vs orange

 

[Jchonline]

Great now lets move on to why Mcculloch saws are better than those Dolmars!

 

[LD1]

LD, Mahindra makes this tractor in HST: View attachment 703013
It is the 2660 and is of TYM product manufacture and bare tractor weight is 4145 lbs. New_2600_Brochure_FINAL_2.pdf

Wow....I was extremely hopeful for a moment.....

Then I read the brochure.

The 2670 is ONLY offered in PST....no hst.

The 2660 is offered in in BOTH pst and HST.....BUT.....look at the ag tire sizes....

THe 2660 PST has 9.5x20 fronts and 14.9x28 rears......thats perfect.
So why in the world is the 2660 HST drop back to 9.5x16 fronts and 14.9x24 rears......that puts it at basically the exact same machine as my current MX5100....only a few hundred pounds heavier. (3800lbs vs 4100lbs)

 

[LD1]

Great now lets move on to why Mcculloch saws are better than those Dolmars!

Not much to discuss. One got dumbed down to junk homeowner crap and the other has gone bye-bye swallowed up by makita

 

[ptsg]

To answer your question, it will involve discussing the gear transmission as well, regardless if you like it or not. There is just no other way around it. Just deal with it. You're the one actually looking childish with all that whine.

The facts are there and are clear as water. HST is inefficient and just ain't gonna cut it. If it was worth to make bigger tractors with HST, I'm sure we would have seen a bunch of them by now.

 

[LouNY]

You want a higher HP hydro get one;

New Holland
Bidirectional™ Tractor
105 PTO hp
TV6070
8 range power shift hydro.

So pea on those puny 3 manual shift range hydros go 8 range with a button power shifted with the infinite hydro.
You can get a 3 point and pto on both ends.
They are not made new at this time as they stopped at tier 3 emissions,
so get a good used one and do you mowing.

 

[LD1]

To answer your question, it will involve discussing the gear transmission as well, regardless if you like it or not. There is just no other way around it. Just deal with it. You're the one actually looking childish with all that whine.

The facts are there and are clear as water. HST is inefficient and just ain't gonna cut it. If it was worth to make bigger tractors with HST, I'm sure we would have seen a bunch of them by now.

Why does asking if anyone has heard if any MFG's have plans on building larger HST tractors have to involve discussing gear machines?

IF I was shopping for a new pistol....would that necessitate talking about rifles and shotguns as well?

You keep regurgitating that "HST's are inefficient" like a fool. ITs all about perspective. Inefficient at what?

Are they inefficient at transmitting power to the ground....sure. But I think we have already discussed that getting power to the ground is NOT a priority for me. For me, efficiency is how fast I can mow a given plot of ground with an 8' mower. How fast can I change speed AND direction on the fly. And for that, the HST is the MOST efficient.

IF HST's were so "inefficient" (with no other clarifier)......then we wouldnt have HST skidloaders or HST zero-turns.

For me, a gear or shuttle is very inefficient.

No one is whining....not sure why you accuse me of that? But the only childish one here is the person still trying to convince me that gear tractor is better when I have clearly stated I have no interest in one. Having operated numerous tractors with various different transmissions, shuttles, power shifts, etc......not so sure why you are so h3ll bent on trying to be Mr know-it-all like you know my situation and tractor uses better than I do.

Just give it a rest.

IT was a simple question. There are dozens of tractor MFG's, and constantly changing models. I dont keep up with the new stuff anymore. So simply wanted to know if any of the MFG's had anything in the pipeline.