Big Wood - Small Tractor.

[DieselnHooters]

What I often do is use the loader as a winch where there is no place to maneuver and I cant get close to the tree.

Hook up the tree to those bucket hooks and raise the loader then curl it to gain another foot or two. Shorten the chain , rehook and repeat.

It is slow and tedious but it beats fetching it by hands IMO

 

[WranglerX]

Well first step today was to purchase 35 feet of 1/4 inch (1250#) chain and a couple of hooks..... Stood in front of electric winches at HF for almost an hour reading labels on boxes... 3500 lb ATV winch looked to be best choice, but 50 feet of cable seems too short (for winch work) and for one or two pulls maybe ok, but for continued work in one day there is the battery/charging issue....

Dale

 

[WranglerX]

Yep.
One of these (FX35) is hydraulic and requires "2-12gpm" of flow as compared to OP's tractor with 4.8 gpm (SCV), so it might be a little slow.
The FX40 is PTO driven, recommended for 12-30 hp, Class I 3ph tractor, weighs 280lbs, and pulls 4000lbs, which can be doubled up (2x) using a snatch block pulley.

Ask anyone that has these winches: They're a total game changer. Night and day. You can really reach out to places a tractor can't or doesn't want to go. You'll use it for a lot more than just grabbing logs too.

And no "power beyond" capabilities ....

Dale

 

[Jstpssng]

One thing you will notice with an electric vs a 3pth winch is the speed; if you were using it on a regular basis waiting for each log to come in would be tedious. However I know several people who have cut 10 cord loads of tree length pulpwood using just their ATVs so it is doable; and beats backing up to every tree or dragging each out with a chain. (And don’t ask me how I know that.)

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Well first step today was to purchase 35 feet of 1/4 inch (1250#) chain and a couple of hooks..... Stood in front of electric winches at HF for almost an hour reading labels on boxes... 3500 lb ATV winch looked to be best choice, but 50 feet of cable seems too short (for winch work) and for one or two pulls maybe ok, but for continued work in one day there is the battery/charging issue....

Dale

Did you look at the ------> "duty cycle", of those HF winches??? Better add that into the equation too!!!

SR

 

[John_Mc]

An electric winch is not a great choice for winching logs for anything but very occasional use. They are very slow, and the duty cycle on most of the inexpensive ones (and some of the not-so-inexpensive ones) is low enough as to make it impractical for logging use. I own the HF Badlands 3500# winch Which I have mounted on an antique UTV. From the owner's manual: "Duty Cycle Rating: 5% (45 sec at Max Rated Load; 14 min, 15 sec Rest)". Pulling in the full 50' at the full rated load would take hours. You don't necessarily pull every log at the full rated load, but logging tends to be a long, continuous pull. These winches are generally better for short bursts: raising and lowering a snow plow, or getting unstuck from a mud hole (where you generally only need to move a few feet to get yourself out of trouble).

Add to that issue the fact that your tractor battery can't take the deep cycling, and that your tractor alternator is woefully undersized to recharge that battery in a reasonable amount of time. The solution just isn't practical for anything other than very light logs or moving heavier logs out of the middle of your trail (as opposed to dragging them 50 feet from off the trail).

If you do go this way, a skidding cone will significantly reduce the drag from the log skidding across the ground, reducing the load on your battery and increasing the distance you can pull without stopping to let the winch cool. Even better is a logging arch, particularly one designed to be pulled in at the end of a cable (in addition to being towed by your tractor). IMO, neither of those comes close to what a real PTO-driven logging winch will do for you. Once you have used one of those, you'll wonder how you ever got along without one.

 

[UP Gus]

Has anyone used a gas capstan winch. They seem to be guite versatile and more practical than a 12 volt winch.

 

[Gee Ray]

I once worked on an land based oil rig that had a capstan winch that was about 12 inches across. With rope about 1 inch in diameter you could lift drill pipe sections that weighted 1000 pounds, hold them the air and lower them into the mouse hole with one hand, 3000 pound drill collars took 2 hands. It is amazing what can be done with a polished drum and a few turns of rope. Finger tip control for movement and speed of the movement makes this a great way to move heavy objects. Simple to use and little maintenance are all pluses. Dragging the rope through the woods should be a lot easier the dragging the cable winch line. The only drawback is the cost.

 

[WranglerX]

An electric winch is not a great choice for winching logs for anything but very occasional use. They are very slow, and the duty cycle on most of the inexpensive ones (and some of the not-so-inexpensive ones) is low enough as to make it impractical for logging use. I own the HF Badlands 3500# winch Which I have mounted on an antique UTV. From the owner's manual: "Duty Cycle Rating: 5% (45 sec at Max Rated Load; 14 min, 15 sec Rest)". Pulling in the full 50' at the full rated load would take hours. You don't necessarily pull every log at the full rated load, but logging tends to be a long, continuous pull. These winches are generally better for short bursts: raising and lowering a snow plow, or getting unstuck from a mud hole (where you generally only need to move a few feet to get yourself out of trouble).

Add to that issue the fact that your tractor battery can't take the deep cycling, and that your tractor alternator is woefully undersized to recharge that battery in a reasonable amount of time. The solution just isn't practical for anything other than very light logs or moving heavier logs out of the middle of your trail (as opposed to dragging them 50 feet from off the trail).

If you do go this way, a skidding cone will significantly reduce the drag from the log skidding across the ground, reducing the load on your battery and increasing the distance you can pull without stopping to let the winch cool. Even better is a logging arch, particularly one designed to be pulled in at the end of a cable (in addition to being towed by your tractor). IMO, neither of those comes close to what a real PTO-driven logging winch will do for you. Once you have used one of those, you'll wonder how you ever got along without one.

Did not actually give a lot of thought to actual duty cycle per say, but all the rest of you statements is pretty much what I have deduced with reading a lot and experiences with my Jeep with 10,000 lb winch, I have actually been able to (at least twice) pull a 995 CCA battery while also running 100 amp alternator down to a point where it actually killed engine (low voltage shutdown of ECU)... The is why all the winches I was looking at are still on store shelf.... Yes a 1400lb SCUT stuck in mud bog can try to pull a 4000 lb Jeep (with all four wheels locked) into mud bog too...

Have a tough situation where "skidding cone" may be necessary no matter what I end doing for "pulling", or I am going to have to cut logs to fireplace lengths and hand carry it out, some of the stuff is up to 18 inches in diameter......

Dale

 

[WranglerX]

Has anyone used a gas capstan winch. They seem to be guite versatile and more practical than a 12 volt winch.

It's a possibility, but a little more than I wanted to spend for the few days I may need it.... Of course it could be tractor mounted or on a "skid" on ground using another tree or rock outcrop as anchor point...

Simpson capstan winch with GX35 Honda Motor | Chainsaw Winches, Misc. Power Equipment, Portable Winches | Log Home Store Building Supplies and Tools

And then there is cost of rope... But not bad for 600 feet...

Double Braided Rope | Portable Winches | Log Home Store Building Supplies and Tools

But then this sort of goes back to putting capstan on PTO concept....


Dale

 

[John_Mc]

Has anyone used a gas capstan winch. They seem to be guite versatile and more practical than a 12 volt winch.

I don't own one, but have used one on a couple of occasions. One of those occasions was in a Game Of Logging Storm Damage Clean Up chainsaw course. I was impressed. In the class, we used: Portable Winch Co PCW5000 Gas Powered Winch. It's well built and easy to use.View attachment 633532
They also sell a "forestry kit" which includes the winch and a lot of other useful stuff, including a skidding cone, snatch block, choker chain, & etc. The kit is definitely worth it, if you don't already own a lot of the stuff in it. They are rated for 2000# pull @40 FPM. If you double the line with a snatch block, you double the pulling force, but cut the speed in half, so 4000# at 20 FPM. Even the double line speed is much faster than any electric winch you are likely to use with a small tractor, and on top of that, there is no need to stop and let the winch cool down every few feet.

This is not exactly blazing speed for pulling out a log, but at least it's not agonizingly slow like an electric winch is, and it can make this pull continuously: no waiting period for things to cool down. For reference, 265 FPM is a typical walking speed (about 3 MPH). A typical logging winch can pull about 2 MPH (175 FPM) if your tractor is running at PTO speed of 540 RPM. (That was about my hiking speed in moderate terrain when carrying a full pack, back when I did a lot of backpacking.) I'm generally not running my tractor at full PTO speed when winching logs in the woods. I generally throttle back to what amounts to about 120 FPM. That's just a comfortable speed for me.

If owning a tractor logging winch was not in the cards for me, I'd grab one of these portable capstan winches in a heartbeat. In fact, if I did a lot more storm damage clean up than I currently do (mostly my own property and helping out friends), I'd probably buy one even though I already own a logging winch. There are situations where one of these portable winches is just easier to use than a tractor mounted logging winch.

 

[ericm979]

How heavy of a log can 2000lb of winch pull pull? Is that an idealized 2000lb log, or 2000lb of pulling force, or something else?

 

[John_Mc]

How heavy of a log can 2000lb of winch pull pull? Is that an idealized 2000lb log, or 2000lb of pulling force, or something else?

It's 2000# of pulling force.

How heavy a log it can pull is STRONGLY dependent on ground conditions, and the shape of the log, and how cleanly it was limbed. A skidding cone or skid plate / skid sled under the front of the load can significantly reduce the pulling force required. I've seen homemade skidding cones and a lot of homemade skidding plates (looks a bit like a sled or toboggan that slips under the leading edge of the log). Sometimes I'll bevel the leading edge of the log to help keep it from digging in - kind of a poor man's skidding cone.

I've whole trees out (20+" DBH Red Oak) without a problem with my 7700# logging winch. I've also had trouble pulling out 1500# logs with it, when the conditions are just not right (though I can almost always figure out those 1500# logs, I just have to jockey things around a bit). When cutting firewood, it's easy: If I can't move a log without a lot of hassle, I just cut it down to a shorter length that I can move. If it's a sawlog that I need out in one piece, sometimes I have to get more creative.

 

[plumbstraight]

^^^I like that electric winch setup. Have no experience with one but the battery issues mentioned earlier, this should be a non issue for intermittent use?

That JD looks like hydraulic winch?

Yes, the JD is hydraulic works very well. The electric is slow, but had the winch so put it on. It is 10,000lb. Much more than the tractor will pull, but with the small gears in electric winches, shock loads from pulling on the move is better to have a larger winch. Mostly used to move trailers and such, but handy when you need the winch.

 

[Oldpath05]

I dont know why more people dont do this with small tractor's and ATVs, I think it's called Par-buckling. I use to load logs on my ATV trailer that way before I bought a tractor and all I had was a small boat winch, you'd be amazed how big of a log you can load on a trailer or truck.
How to load logs on a truck using a 12v winch - YouTube

 

[John_Mc]

I dont know why more people dont do this with small tractor's and ATVs, I think it's called Par-buckling. I use to load logs on my ATV trailer that way before I bought a tractor and all I had was a small boat winch, you'd be amazed how big of a log you can load on a trailer or truck.
How to load logs on a truck using a 12v winch - YouTube

Yes, it's called parbuckling. There are a couple of threads on here about it.

Here's a couple descriptions of another method which uses a hinged arch across the back of the trailer:

This one shows a few pictures in action: Moving Logs

This is a longer thread with some build details: DanG-DeadHeader Log Lifter

I do not own one of these, but have seen one in use a few times. It worked well, requires only minimal modifications to the trailer, and was an inexpensive method of loading logs, especially if you already own a winch.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I've parbuckled many a log onto a trailer, heck I've parbuckled them off too!

SR

 

[Oldpath05]

Nice picture SR must of taken it for demonstration purposes. Yes par-buckling can be used to unload to, it works great in both directions and there is hardly and foot print left behind cept tire tracks. I still have all my parbuckling jingle jangles, all I need is another boat winch maybe this summer I set it up again

 

[Oldpath05]

Yes, it's called parbuckling. There are a couple of threads on here about it.

Here's a couple descriptions of another method which uses a hinged arch across the back of the trailer:

This one shows a few pictures in action: Moving Logs

This is a longer thread with some build details: DanG-DeadHeader Log Lifter

I do not own one of these, but have seen one in use a few times. It worked well, requires only minimal modifications to the trailer, and was an inexpensive method of loading logs, especially if you already own a winch.

I thought that what it was called, I had to dig deep to try and recall it. I think the parbuckling method would work better then the re-hooking tailgate way, put down ramps and let the log roll that what a log does best.

 

[John_Mc]

I thought that what it was called, I had to dig deep to try and recall it. I think the parbuckling method would work better then the re-hooking tailgate way, put down ramps and let the log roll that what a log does best.

Whether parbuckling or the log-lifter arch is better depends on the design of trailer you have and on what you are lifting. (As well as the surroundings and terrain in which you are working, I guess.)

I agree that for picking up sawlogs (mostly straight and round) in an open area, parbuckling is hard to beat: minimal equipment and fabrication required, and probably can get by with lower powered winch and battery.

For working in tight quarters, such as along a narrow trail, or with odd-shaped logs (such as yard trees), the arch over the tailgate might be a better choice.