Big Cars are killing Americans

   / Big Cars are killing Americans #201  
aight, i'm just gonna unload here

I'll lay my cards out first that I don't really like BIG TRUCKS and BIG TRACTORS. Not my thing. I use a pickup and a tractor for my work and sometimes I have to fix them, which is why I'm on this and similar forums. I've lived both urban and rural. Currently and hopefully for the rest of my life I live rurally but I have lived in cities often over the years. I see a lot of people looking at this from a rural perspective (which makes sense, this IS a tractor forum!), so I want to add an urban perspective on the issue. The article (which I never saw the link for, but I assume it's the recent one in The Atlantic) is definitely written with urban perspective in mind.

This is about people living in cities wanting their neighborhoods to be safer and more livable. Many large cities have changed big time in the last 40 years. Cities of 40 years ago were mostly treated like service centers for a larger metro area. Lots of people would commute in for work but urban residents tended to skew to young singles, poorer folks, and people of color who, for various reasons, do not have a lot of clout with urban planning and infrastructure policy. Gentrification has really blown up in the past 20 years and now more affluent people want to raise their families in cities. And they want to walk or bike to a school or store with their kids (and let their older kids do so on their own) without running a gauntlet. They want parks, not parking lots. And they know how to navigate and leverage political power so they're pretty likely to make some headway. And good for them. They live there. I'm just passing through.

From a walking and cycling perspective, it's pretty simple: Cars are a threat to pedestrians and cyclists. And not vice versa. Period. All the victim-blaming of pedestrians on this thread doesn't change that, unless you consider the cost of re-detailing your grille and removing bloodstains to be higher than the value of someone's life. I don't care how good a driver you personally are or how clean your record is, vehicles are dangerous - a top 5 cause of death in many countries. If you have that one night in calving season or when your kid is sick and you don't get enough sleep, the risk goes up. And I get it, you still have to go to work or pick up meds or whatever. But you don't want to kill someone, even if they are on their phone or drunk (last I checked, these were not capital offenses). So why fight against measures that mitigate that risk? Like better bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure, lower speed limits, congestion zones, transit to get more cars off the road, and yes, smaller vehicles. Because:

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It feels like auto companies are marketing to our worst instincts - it's like an arms race where everyone needs to get a bigger truck to feel safe and see over and around the other big-ass trucks. Stick airbags in the pillars that protect the people inside the car but obscure the people outside. Who cares as long as you're safe? Everyone else can look out for themselves! Personal responsibility, you know?

The only way out of these kinds of vicious cycles is a regulatory nudge. No one is going to be banning large pickups, but it wouldn't be a bad thing if you can't drive them anywhere you want in cities, need an additional license endorsement, or pay a premium on insurance that would accurately reflect their costs to those around us. All these things would discourage people from buying a big truck unless they really needed it to make a living. I would love to see insurance companies switch to a mileage based premium instead of monthly that would encourage us to use the safer vehicle when possible. I think the roads would be a lot safer if we left the big truck at home whenever possible.

tldr - stop whining and let people in cities have safe streets, it's not an assault on your personal freedom any more than having to get a drivers license or purchase insurance.

p.s.
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544cc and 28 wild horses, baybeee. now that's a pickup for the city.

You are speaking out of ignorance and believing the junk you read about urban living put out by those with a political agenda. If you saw the "peaceful protests" in many large urban centers in the United States, large trucks are the least thing to be concerned about. Walking and biking to school or the store is a fantasy in most of our majority cities. In many cities, it is dangerous and not because you will get run over by a truck.

I left Canada because of people like you. You want to impact my freedom to address your needs and what you think is "right". STAY IN CANADA WHERE YOU BELONG!

I am a dual citizen and can live in either country. NO WAY I would leave the USA for the socialist utopia of Canada.

Look, if you want to drive a puddle jumper that is your decision. Good for you and for saving the planet and the Darwin candidates who walk off the sidewalk without looking. Most of North America is rural. We need a different type of vehicle than a Smart car, or 544 cc pickup or a battery-operated EV.

Others have no right to decide my choices and proposing taxes or restrictions to "get your way". Most folks that think that way do not see the big picture...only what they want to see and believe.

I don't care if three times more people die by being hit by a pickup truck. What I care about is my level of safety. If I am in an accident, I want to increase my chances of survival. And I feel safer in an F150 than a Japanese mini pickup. If the other person dies, it is sad...if I die, it is a tragedy.

My pastor put it bluntly, "It sucks to be you."
 
   / Big Cars are killing Americans #202  
p.s.
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544cc and 28 wild horses, baybeee. now that's a pickup for the city.
It isn't the weight of larger vehicles, it's the flat front profile. The pickup cited would be just as deadly as an F-250 because of the flat profile. It's only advantage is with it's narrow width it would be easier to dodge.
Some things that are missing from all the handwringing articles about vehicle size and increased number of fatalities, is the population demographic, the increased use of smart phones, and the growing entitlement attitude of certain city dwellers. Lots of data ignored so they could come to a desired conclusion.
 
   / Big Cars are killing Americans #203  
I think the logic of the article was Big cars take you to McDonald’s, and the food there kills you, so the car was an accomplice.
Local McDees is always busy. I often times wonder if their customers really know what they are consuming. It ain't cheap (like it used to be) either.
 
   / Big Cars are killing Americans #204  
Per the Governor's Highway Safety Association - just pulled this out of my backside in a 5 second Google - Alcohol impairment by the driver and/or pedestrian was reported in nearly half of traffic crashes that resulted in a pedestrian fatality.

I won't dispute that the odds of death increase with the size of the vehicle... seems like pretty simple physics on that front, but how come nobody is tilting at the alcohol windmill here though? 50% alcohol impairment? Seems like there's a big root cause indicator here. By the way, don't answer this... It is a rhetorical question - I'm just putting it out there to play Devil's advocate because most battles like this only target a case they think they can win, and alcohol would be an electrified rail to touch.

How would this work for rural Joe, who needs to go to the big city to pick up something at a freight terminal? He can't drive his big truck into the city, and he doesn't have a small truck, and the carrier refuses to deliver down his cart path of a road. I get the intent, but I feel the implementation is pure madness. Let's use all that fuel tax and luxury tax that comes from our high priced death machines to help provide better lit and separate walking areas instead of banning trucks.

I understand that a lot of the intent here is that the asphalt warriors don't need a jacked up diesel, and I've seen a lot who would agree, but I'd remind anyone who thinks that way that you might become a victim of your own ideas. What if you live rural county, but that county also contains a city, and someone decides that county is now predominately urban, and you can no longer register a full size vehicle if you reside in that county? I'm sorry, but I will always be against any sort of legislation that is meant to protect me from myself. I may be naive but I still hope for common sense and personal responsibility. It's a flaw I live with and I'm not seeking any treatment for it.

Edit: by the way, I DO drive a car to the city for shopping when it will hold what I am buying. I've got no love for trying to park a truck in places where far too many people can't navigate the lines in a parking lot. This time of year it is the truck always because the road condition isn't always the best for the car.
Lake Shore Drive in Chicago is a no truck zone. No trucks at all including Ford Rangers, Toyota Tacomas, Chevy Colorados, or GMC Canyons, but is ok to drive a full size Suburban.
 
   / Big Cars are killing Americans #205  
Always felt much safer driving a conventional Western Star than a cab over Freightliner because of the flat front which puts your knees first on the scene with the radiator cap.

I always like knowing I had a 7000 pound hunk of Cat diesel between me and whatever I happened to hit, not that I ever hit anything but if I did, it would be much more comforting.
 
   / Big Cars are killing Americans #206  
Lake Shore Drive in Chicago is a no truck zone. No trucks at all including Ford Rangers, Toyota Tacomas, Chevy Colorados, or GMC Canyons, but is ok to drive a full size Suburban.
Not always. I used to deliver to the exposition center and we always came in on Lake Shore drive. Of course by permit only.
 
   / Big Cars are killing Americans #208  
My take is we have too many cars, we need better public transportation. I read where the UK is pushing this also.

My county has a public transportation system that serves rural areas. We pay a millage on our property taxes for the service. I thought it was a good idea until my college aged nephew stayed with us for several months and actually tried to use the service to get back and forth to a job located 7 miles from our house. The system is that you call ahead to arrange where you need to get from and to and when, and they will give you an approximate pick up times the evening before after they make routes for the next day. Despite being in existence for over a decade, there just isn't enough demand for them to create and staff dedicated routes. The fare was only a couple bucks for each trip, but It would literally be a 2-3 hour process for him to get each way instead of a 10 minute drive. We ended up driving him and picking him up more days than not.
 
   / Big Cars are killing Americans
  • Thread Starter
#209  
Always felt much safer driving a conventional Western Star than a cab over Freightliner because of the flat front which puts your knees first on the scene with the radiator cap.

I always like knowing I had a 7000 pound hunk of Cat diesel between me and whatever I happened to hit, not that I ever hit anything but if I did, it would be much more comforting.
the old school VW bus was a notorious death trap, with only sheet metal between you & impact. glad i'm here to tell the tale for the few times i was in one back when. never again
 
   / Big Cars are killing Americans #210  
the old school VW bus was a notorious death trap, with only sheet metal between you & impact. glad i'm here to tell the tale for the few times i was in one back when. never again
My parents had 4 of them. I learned to drive in the 3rd one. Yes, they are scary when you think about it. You're sitting on the front wheel. That steering wheel is right in your gut, and there's some sheet metal for a dash and the front of the outer skin. That's about it.

We used to say you'd be there before the accident.
 
 
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