Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l

   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l
  • Thread Starter
#31  
even leaving the 3-pt arms on, you could slide the backhoe 6" towards the tractor. I had the same thought to cut, shorten it, and re-weld with sleeved tubing.
...
That said, mine drives on an off of my 20' car hauler trailer just fine. My deck height is low and ramp angle pretty shallow.

would you mind sharing your departure angle?

If, on level ground, you just measure the height/clearance at the bottom of the kingpin bracket, then the angle is a little less than arctan(kingpin" / 54") (a little less, because the contact patch on the tire is a little aft of the actual axle; but close enough)
 
   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l #32  
Sure, I'll try to remember to take a measurement for you in my garage tonight. If I'm lucky and sneak in some seat time tonight, I'll try it both with nothing on the SSQA and the loader arms on the ground, vs having a full bucket of soil in the front loader.
 
   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l #33  
The other gripe about the backhoe subframe is how much it kills the ground clearance and breakover angle. I've gotten stuck in soft sand that I was digging a couple times, due to beaching the subframe and losing traction with my rear tires. Have to use the loader and backhoe to drag yourself out; not real fun.
 
   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l #34  
good luck
 
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   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l
  • Thread Starter
#35  
EDIT1: waiting for clarification from @Amvcane but as his sig states & @Midniteoyl points out, DK -> CK3510 is the likely model. This is identical (including in tires) to my CK2610, just with a bigger engine. Specs on Kioti's site show same length, wheelbase, and most everything except HP&weight

My KB2475 manual has the exact same pages above, except "backhoe model" is KB2475 and "tractor model" is DK35. All specs, same as above.

what a bummer. there is a HUGE difference between subframes for the same tractor over time in the kb2475 and kb2475L (EDIT2), they keep getting significantly longer apparently. Your kb2475 actually looks a lot like I'd expect mine to have been designed, or end up if i keep it & modify it post-warranty. Close to rear axle, diagonal bracing steeper.

[EDIT2: deezler and amvcane have the same tractor (CK3510se), but 6 inches difference in kingpin->axle per tape-measure and confirmed in pictures later in thread; and between them have both kb2475/kb2475L afaict]

@Amvcane would you mind measuring the distance from the bottom of the kingpin bushing->ground, and kingpin->rearAxle? Assuming our rear links are the same length, your horizontal distance looks closer to 3.5' than my 4.5'.

One thing that looks to be different between our rigs is actual tire diameter. online says you dk35 w/ r4's(?) =12.4-24=45.5"diam, whereas my ck2610 with r4's =11.2x24=42.5"diam. DK35 is 1.5" more ground clearance vs CK2610


2021 CK2610 w/ KB2475L
PXL_20220420_231158919.MP.jpg


Nothing mechanical going on that would prevent it from being moved ~8" back or several inches up. I'd likely need new 1/2" steel diagonals, and some additional lap/reinforement on the subframe; but man this is stupid of Kioti as-is.
PXL_20220420_174232770.jpg
 
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   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l #36  
what a bummer. there is a HUGE difference between subframes in the kb2475 and kb2475L, apparently. Your kb2475 actually looks a lot like I'd expect mine to have been designed, or end up if i keep it & modify it post-warranty. Close to rear axle, diagonal bracing steeper.

@Amvcane would you mind measuring the distance from the bottom of the kingpin bushing->ground, and kingpin->rearAxle? Assuming our rear links are the same length, your horizontal distance looks closer to 3.5' than my 4.5'.

One thing that looks to be different between our rigs is actual tire diameter. online says you dk35 w/ r4's(?) =12.4-24=45.5"diam, whereas my ck2610 with r4's =11.2x24=42.5"diam. DK35 is 1.5" more ground clearance vs CK2610


2021 CK2610 w/ KB2475L
View attachment 742589

Nothing mechanical going on that would prevent it from being moved ~8" back or several inches up. I'd likely need new 1/2" steel diagonals, and some additional lap/reinforement on the subframe; but man this is stupid of Kioti as-is.
View attachment 742591

His is a CK35. Not sure what they changed mounting wise, but it does look to be different. With yours lower and farther rearward.

Are you sure you have the correct subframe?
 
   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l
  • Thread Starter
#37  
His is a CK35. Not sure what they changed mounting wise, but it does look to be different. With yours lower and farther rearward.

Are you sure you have the correct subframe?

Good catch, thank you @Midniteoyl - unless @Amvcane clarifies he really meant DK, you're correct it's the exact same frame, tires, etc as mine. Clearly a different subframe. Being new, I was able to find the sticker hidden behind the wheel.

PXL_20220421_013702634 cropped.jpg

Hopefully the serial `201101xxx` refers to 2020-11-01, not 2011 :). So assuming it's labeled correctly, seems like "correct" part.

Can't see any logic to the design change between Amvcane's 2012 unit and my 2021 (apparently the `L` in kb2475 vs kb2475L)
 
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   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l
  • Thread Starter
#38  
@Amvcane could you confirm you're pic is of your CK3510se-hst?

If so, what's the size of your kb2475's "cockpit"? Searching for the response my dealer is going to give on why my subframe shouldn't look like yours (like some other design change between 2012->2021 that now 'requires' the BH to be offset further aft.

34" between the metal bracket around the fuel tank, and the toe plate / business-end.
PXL_20220421_015544775.jpg


At its current vertical level, the seat only clears the tank by 3-4 inches. BUT it could be moved forward by 3 inches as-is. A more workable solution for me would be to modify the seat to be higher, as I'm tall. But still, 6-8 inches easily could be found in the current design, more if the hoe and/or seat is raised.
PXL_20220421_015521988.jpg
 
   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l #39  
@Amvcane could you confirm you're pic is of your CK3510se-hst?

If so, what's the size of your kb2475's "cockpit"? Searching for the response my dealer is going to give on why my subframe shouldn't look like yours (like some other design change between 2012->2021 that now 'requires' the BH to be offset further aft.

34" between the metal bracket around the fuel tank, and the toe plate / business-end.
View attachment 742626

At its current vertical level, the seat only clears the tank by 3-4 inches. BUT it could be moved forward by 3 inches as-is. A more workable solution for me would be to modify the seat to be higher, as I'm tall. But still, 6-8 inches easily could be found in the current design, more if the hoe and/or seat is raised.
View attachment 742627
Could be that the CK2610 uses smaller tires than the bigger/higher HP CK models and therefore make everything lower? Just guessing here because on the Branson line up, they have the same situation with the 15 series that can go from 25 HP to 48HP in the same chassis but the 25 hp model gets smaller tires due to less HP.
 
   / Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l #40  
That isn't a selling point for sure. Looks like an oversized backhoe retro-fitted onto a smaller tractor. Not saying it is, but it looks like something done to save the OEM from designing a proper one.

Fits like a chicken's foot in a sock.
The better designed one is called a mini-excavator.

The BH's sold for SCUTS are designed to fill a niche market for people demanding
1650539594126.png

expecting one of these
1650539705712.png

so it will fit in the corner of their garage. What they really want is this
1650539798747.png
 
 
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