best material for parking a car or tractor on?

[dave1949]

6' tall and banging your head, just sounds like "yuck" to me. more so once you get lights installed. and then non stop glar of lights right into your eyes. if you could forget the deck, and say just build a garage extension. with a taller ceiling.... 7 to 8 feet high or perhaps a little taller.... the area would more likely be more inviting. and not have head aches, from lights blinding you.

or when you walk out onto deck, you have to take a couple steps up onto the deck as you come out the door. to give you more room underneath.

or perhaps digging down further, to increase your height. and installing a french drain, and sump pump. to deal with water.

The drains are something to consider if you are removing 18" ?? I assume your lower floor is a slab. If I picture it right, there is some concrete wall that comes up above grade? In any case, there should be an existing perimeter drain around the outside of your foundation. You don't want to let frost get down to that by removing too much soil. If you were building a closed in space, like a garage I don't think it matters, but an open shed-type area would.

Sounds like you haven't really settled yet on the plan, but its good to ask what-if questions along the way to avoid surprises.

If your asphalt drive is fairly flat or just a minor slope, and not real long, you probably won't need tractor chains. I used to have an almost flat asphalt drive in Wells and I never had a traction problem with R4's, did have the backhoe on, so that added a lot of traction weight. If you get into icy conditions on asphalt, sand works well, it's cheaper (or often free in small amounts at the town yard) than chains, and no damage.

 

[madmax12]

Good points and suggestions. How would you determine if there is a drain around the foundation? The yard is sloped, and the builder doesn't appear to have taken steps to "go the extra mile" on anything, so a drain would surprise me. But, suppose you are right, and there is a drain. How could I figure that out, before changing the grade?

 

[Sawdustsmb]

I've had a concrete drive - 150' or so for 25 years. Plow with a Ford 4000 with double ring chains and there are no marks from them unless you park somewhere and let them spin. Here in upstate NY we may go for a long period of sub freezing weather in the winter. My tractor will be soaking from sweat when it thaws whether it is on concrete or dirt. It is very easy to see exactly where the fluid level in the rear tires is. That does not bode well with my '68 Firebird so it stays in the heated basement. Next best solution is upstairs in the haymow at the farm - on wood. Brother-in-law built a shed with a wood floor for his Corvette and MG. He also buts the vette in a bag which zips up and vacuums all the air out. Now getting back to Cliff Claven - maybe it depends on where you live - whether you have a month or 6 weeks of sub freezing weather to deal with and wood is not bad it it is in an enclosed building in fact I know of a lot of garages that were built in the 1920's and 30's with wood floors

 

[madmax12]

Yes, a garage with a wood floor is a part of some Maine homes, too. For the driveway, as mentioned above, I think gravel will be acceptable. As for cement, that may be a future addition on the gravel...though your post seems to indicate that u think the cement driveway would NOT be acceptable for your hot rod / classic. Do u see little protective advantage with outdoor cement vs gravel? If that were true, perhaps I would never add / change the gravel.

And with the deck or addition, I'm still in the back and forth idea phase... I'm hoping to accomplish driveway soon, but u know how plans go. The deck / addition are a next spring possibility.

Does your brother-in-law vaccum bag the vette because he thinks his shed storage is a poor solution? Or is the MG uncovered confidently while he over baby's the vette???

I do have a one car heated garage...but for obvious reasons, that is very limiting.

 

[RDrancher]

I've been learning g recently about geo textile, and may be using that under the gravel. I talked to the company that did my neighbors asphalt driveway, and they said they packed a sand base, laid geo fabric, then gravel then asphalt (total 12 inches deep, but I don't think they said how many inches gravel vs asphalt).

Using geotextile fabric is always a sound idea. I have a line on a manufacturer / supplier that sells direct with much better pricing than I can get locally. PM me if you want their contact info. I won't print it here since I know for sure that one of my competitors surfs this forum to check up on me.

 

[madmax12]

Thanks

 

[Sawdustsmb]

Yes, a garage with a wood floor is a part of some Maine homes, too. For the driveway, as mentioned above, I think gravel will be acceptable. As for cement, that may be a future addition on the gravel...though your post seems to indicate that u think the cement driveway would NOT be acceptable for your hot rod / classic. Do u see little protective advantage with outdoor cement vs gravel? If that were true, perhaps I would never add / change the gravel.

And with the deck or addition, I'm still in the back and forth idea phase... I'm hoping to accomplish driveway soon, but u know how plans go. The deck / addition are a next spring possibility.

Does your brother-in-law vaccum bag the vette because he thinks his shed storage is a poor solution? Or is the MG uncovered confidently while he over baby's the vette???

I do have a one car heated garage...but for obvious reasons, that is very limiting.

I hope I'm doing this right! With the vapor barrier and the ability to slope the top surface of concrete or blacktop for drainage and being able to walk, plow, and work on it I would go with a hard surface.

My b-i-laws vette came with the bag, is a special edition, and yes he babies it. The shed is on gravel with floor joists and plywood floor - painted etc. build for the cars. pretty dry although I have not looked at the cars after the first warm day after a prolong cold spell.

 

[dave1949]

Good points and suggestions. How would you determine if there is a drain around the foundation? The yard is sloped, and the builder doesn't appear to have taken steps to "go the extra mile" on anything, so a drain would surprise me. But, suppose you are right, and there is a drain. How could I figure that out, before changing the grade?

First let me say, you don't want frost getting down to the footer, whether it has a drain or not.

If you are not on a city sewer system, and have never seen a drain outlet, you may not have one. Or, it could be an underground stone bed that the water goes to and is allowed to drain away into the surrounding soil.

The preferred no-sewer drain is one that goes to "daylight", or comes out of the ground some distance from your house. It would be downhill, at least 3-4' below the grade level of your lower floor level.

If your site is a dry one, the builder may have decided it didn't need a drain, and I am not sure if codes require them.

It might be worth asking the former owner or the builder if they are still around. Other than that, beyond digging a pit next to your wall, I don't know how you could tell.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if you aren't having any drainage issues. You can always put foundation-type styrofoam down as the first layer in an area you have to dig out. It comes in 4X8 sheets, 2" thick is common. Double up a couple of those and they will act as a frost barrier. Dampness won't hurt the styrofoam, it sheds water.

 

[madmax12]

It is city sewer system. Slab probably sits a foot higher than the street. So, for example, if I tried to fill my garage with water, it would just flow right out the door, onto the driveway, down to the street...into the city curb sewers.

Gravity shower/toilet / laundry immediate beside garage. Shower drain in slab floor, etc...

Hmmm... As a raised ranch, where the garage is part of the basement/1st floor, the floor is a slab. The slab level (regardless of the grade of the ground around it)...the slab is above the footer, right? If that is correct, my "plan" is to make the drive way at the height of the slab, which is lower than the grass is now. If the driveway needs to be 12 inches deep, I'm looking at digging down, than adding 12 inches of gravel.

So, if I parked in the "future" driveway, the car in the driveway would be at the same level as the car in the garage, next to it.

All of that should be above all footers, right?

Did any of that make sense?

I think I will do what u said about the insulation between the gravel and the cement wall... That sounds like a great idea, that couldn't hurt, even if it turned out to be unnecessary...

Does it sound like I'm on the same page as what u r telling me? Or am i way off?

 

[magicheater]

Hmmm... As a raised ranch, where the garage is part of the basement/1st floor, the floor is a slab. The slab level (regardless of the grade of the ground around it)...the slab is above the footer, right? If that is correct, my "plan" is to make the drive way at the height of the slab, which is about 18 inches lower than the grass is now. If the driveway needs to be 12 inches deep, I'm looking at digging down 2 1/2 feet, than adding 12 inches of gravel.

So, if I parked in the "future" driveway, the car in the driveway would be at the same level as the car in the garage, next to it.

All of that should be above all footers, right?

Did any of that make sense?

I think I will do what u said about the insulation between the gravel and the cement wall... That sounds like a great idea, that couldn't hurt, even if it turned out to be unnecessary...

Does it sound like I'm on the same page as what u r telling me? Or am i way off?

From what you have said you did not raise your "ranch" enough when you began. If anything you should be adding material for the drive to bring it to slab height and not excavating 2.5 feet and adding 1' of material. Just make sure it slopes away when you are done so you can take advantage of the somewhat dry properties of the slab. Is your lawn to be above the height of the driveway?

 

[madmax12]

Yes... The builder. When I bought the place, I didn't realize all the mistakes... The house was already 24 years old when I came to it. Had to have the front sil and part of front wall replaced...as the previous builder and/or owner had the sil below grade.

I've been learning But, this is our house, for now, just trying to "fix" it a little at a time...as time and money allow.

U know what I mean, right?

U ever have to clean up after someone? That's kind of what I'm doing.

 

[dave1949]

It is city sewer system. Slab probably sits a foot higher than the street. So, for example, if I tried to fill my garage with water, it would just flow right out the door, onto the driveway, down to the street...into the city curb sewers.

Gravity shower/toilet / laundry immediate beside garage. Shower drain in slab floor, etc...

Hmmm... As a raised ranch, where the garage is part of the basement/1st floor, the floor is a slab. The slab level (regardless of the grade of the ground around it)...the slab is above the footer, right? If that is correct, my "plan" is to make the drive way at the height of the slab, which is about 18 inches lower than the grass is now. If the driveway needs to be 12 inches deep, I'm looking at digging down 2 1/2 feet, than adding 12 inches of gravel.

So, if I parked in the "future" driveway, the car in the driveway would be at the same level as the car in the garage, next to it.

All of that should be above all footers, right?

Did any of that make sense?

I think I will do what u said about the insulation between the gravel and the cement wall... That sounds like a great idea, that couldn't hurt, even if it turned out to be unnecessary...

Does it sound like I'm on the same page as what u r telling me? Or am i way off?

I'm not sure what page we are on :laughing:

The problem is, your slab and foundation could have been built in various ways. Do you have exterior concrete block or poured cement walls that rise above your slab and the slab is inside that wall? If so, there would be a foundation footer at the bottom of that masonry wall. Or, your slab could be an Alaskan or floating slab (no foundation), or your slab could be capping a perimeter frost wall with a footer below it.

On the styrofoam, you need to lay it flat on the ground if you want to use it as a frost penetration barrier. Putting it up against the masonry wall insulates the wall, but it won't stop frost from going into the ground next to the wall.

If you are on a sewer in Maine, chances are there are building codes to deal with. If so, you need to consider those. A good way to do that is once you have your ideas firmed up, make an appointment for your local Code Enforcement Officer to do a site visit. They can tell you about any code issues and explain the process. If he/she is a good COE, they will steer you away from bad construction choices. They can be very helpful and a free resource--or not. Worth asking.

 

[magicheater]

Yes... The builder. When I bought the place, I didn't realize all the mistakes... The house was already 24 years old when I came to it. Had to have the front sil and part of front wall replaced...as the previous builder and/or owner had the sil below grade.

I've been learning But, this is our house, for now, just trying to "fix" it a little at a time...as time and money allow.

U know what I mean, right?

U ever have to clean up after someone? That's kind of what I'm doing.

Completely in tune with your plight. Luckily you have a tractor and can remedy many of the previous mistakes. It is not hopeless, only a little more time consuming for you with the repair. It may not even be major, only allowing proper egress for water. Much of Holland is below sea level but they maintain quite well....

 

[madmax12]

One page at a time, one day at a time... :confused2:

Thanks guys...

 

[rd_macgregor]

The geotextiles I'm familiar with are not vapor barriers, they are most often used between fill layers to stabilize the layers and prevent the upper ones from being pressed down and disappearing into/mixing in with the substrate.
For a surface that will always be outdoors, you likely wouldn't need the expense of a vapor barrier (though geotextile MAY be justified if the substrate is soft). If you may someday build an enclosed building on the paved surface, then it would be good to have the vapor barrier. Of course, getting this all thought through is a real challenge (as you obviously realize!), since you'd want a footer of some sort installed with the surface that you might someday build a garage, shop or whatever on top of. I frequently employ 20/20 hindsight to see what I should have done 5 years ago to avoid a bunch of extra work and expense today.
BOB

 

[madmax12]

I frequently employ 20/20 hindsight to see what I should have done 5 years ago to avoid a bunch of extra work and expense today.
BOB

You're in good company :thumbsup: (we are alot alike )

Good points, thank you.