Tires Ballasting tires with saline (not calcium chloride)

[Harry c]

Pretty amazing! Most of the guys on here will argue all day about the engine oil to be used or the hydraulic oil, or the use of aftermarket filters and come to an almost unanimous agreement that the tractor manufacturer's recommendations are probably safest. Yet when it come to filled tires, the same guys ignore the fact that the Kubota manual says Calcium Chloride is approved and is approved by all tire makers. At least in my manual, nothing else is mentioned as acceptable.

Several things will no doubt work but why bother? Cheap, readily available, heavier than other solutions, freeze protection way below where I'm going out, no tubes needed, no corrosion on sealed wheels, won't poison the dog....What's not to like? Used it 35 years, aint changin' now!

Now feel free to ignore this tidbit and continue the eternal controversy!

 

[IslandTractor]

Pretty amazing! Most of the guys on here will argue all day about the engine oil to be used or the hydraulic oil, or the use of aftermarket filters and come to an almost unanimous agreement that the tractor manufacturer's recommendations are probably safest. Yet when it come to filled tires, the same guys ignore the fact that the Kubota manual says Calcium Chloride is approved and is approved by all tire makers. At least in my manual, nothing else is mentioned as acceptable.

Several things will no doubt work but why bother? Cheap, readily available, heavier than other solutions, freeze protection way below where I'm going out, no tubes needed, no corrosion on sealed wheels, won't poison the dog....What's not to like? Used it 35 years, aint changin' now!

Now feel free to ignore this tidbit and continue the eternal controversy!

Fair points. I do think that the corrosion worry is grossly overstated and as we spread tons of calcium chloride on the roads each year it's hard to get too upset about another hundred pounds rolling around inside a tractor tire. Before methanol shot up in price WWF seemed to have some subtle advantages but at a cost of over $150 for materials vs $20-30 for CaCl2 ya gotta reconsider. I was quoted something north of $700 by a local tractor dealer to take my tractor, load the wheels with beet juice and return it. I still think RimGuard is the optimal product but it is hard to justify the price.

 

[wolc123]

Good point about the gross exaggeration of the corrosion problem on this forum. I did lose one set of rear rims on my JD M, but it took over 50 years. That sure did not stop me from loading the JD 4120 I got a couple years ago. My kids might have to worry about them rims rusting out some day but I certainly will not. By far the cheapest way to add ballast in the most effective place. It is really nice to be able to move heaping full buckets of material with no lifting of the rear even with nothing on the 3pt.

 

[putt_putt_green]

It was $250 here in MI to put RimGuard in all 4 tires (outsourced by dealer). Amazing how the price changes from one part of the country to another. I'm not sure how many gallons it was though, but I'd guess 60-70.

 

[MAYOR8020]

I have a tc40 new holland and i went to my lumber yard that i do business w/ and told them to work up best price for alot of washer fluid . got a good deal like about a buck /gal. went home w/ it got the wood stove going in shop took tires off laid them down flat took out valve put a pice of clear tubing on valve and put it in gal. let them rip drank some beer and did a bunch of other stuff while they filled. it was fun took almost 5 hours to do all
4 tires/. i filled them till they wouldnt take anymore laying flat. just right
needless to say by the time i was done fillin i was full of beer as well !!!!
wife wasnt to happy but i was cause i got 2 things done @ once
all in all i liked fillin them my self cause i know its done right
total cost 125-150 buck plus 20 buck for beer
tahts pretty cheap and now i can eat steak instead hot dogs

tc40 16 la fel, bush hog squelar 72" , furgeson 2btm plow, 120" disc 2row,
12' drags , horst pallet fork, homemade 600lb ballast, fami log winch ,
84" stone rake hydro

 

[RexB]

Harry c good points! and thanks for the morning chuckle

(WWF was my choice, 80cents/gal then, dealer installed free)

Now let's get back to arguing about hyd oil, gear oil, filters and what the best yard beer is

 

[beersngars]

Good thread. I have read all 5 pages at least twice (among other threads)and have still not decided which, if any ballast material I will use. I still have one nagging question. What if any of the mentioned materails are used and a flat occurs? Could the tire still be plugged? Patched? And if patched, could the ballast fluid be saved and reused? I would assume Slime and the like products would be out of the question. In my mind, the ultimate ballast would be a sealant/antifreeze/inert semi-fluid. Not tring to throw a wrench in the works after the whole thing has been "figured out", but I just like to have all my concerns/questions in a row so to speak before spending the money.

 

[IslandTractor]

Leaks are always a concern with fluid filled tires. I haven't had any trouble in the past with R4s which are pretty tough to puncture with thorns etc. I am sure it is easier than we'd like to poke a hole with an unseen chunk of metal however.

With a small leak you could simply drive the tractor home and leave the leak in the 12 o'clock position while you fixed it. Unless you ripped out a chunk of sideway I doubt you'd lose that much fluid.

I have't seen any reference to difficulty patching a tire because of fluid ballast. Of course with an inner tube you'd need to remove the tire and drain all the ballast fluid before patching. That seems one good reason not to use an inner tube to me. If you just ran over a nail, you could use one of the standard "external" or in place repair kits to plug the hole on a tubeless mounted tire and then just keep going.

 

[dknarnd]

My tire place gets 55 gl drums of premixed washer fluid rated at -20. I'm only 5 miles away so I drove down and had my tires filled which saved me $90. Used about 90 gallon and cost me about $350 with tubes installed.

Checked into the Rim Guard and it was about $200 more plus I would have had to trailer my tractor to them which is about 45 miles away. Calcium would have saved me abut $100 and been heavier with a lower freeze point of -35 or more depending on the solution; but -20 is good for me so I went with WW fluid. So with the WW fluid I added about 400# each side plus I have 210# each side of metal weights, tractor is perfect now.

 

[patrick_g]

Propylene glycol ain't cheap even in bulk. $786/55gallon drum on one website and over $1000 on another. Even ethylene glycol, which is cheaper, is over $450 even in 55gallon drums.

Methanol at 275 dollars for 55 gallons starts to look like a bargin. Mixed 50/50 with water it would provide antifreeze to -30F or so. That works out to about $2.50/gallon mixed. Rimguard is about $3/gallon and has the advantage of being heavier but requires access to a dealer.

Plain vanilla WWF costs about $1.25/gallon at Home Depot in my area.

Despite all the problems with calcium chloride, it is by far the cheapest solution and would cost just pennies/gallon made up as a -30F antifreeze solution on site.

WOW! IT doesn't take a genius to see where the economy and performance meet to recommend a solution (pun, accidental.)

I will be staying with my weighting system which has served me fairly well most of the time for a bit over 5 years. It doesn't rust the rims, came frozen already, and is visible to the casual observer (painted Kubota orance.)

I have 3 each cast iron wheel weights bolted inside the dish of the rear wheels on each side. This is not as heavy OR effective as liquid fill but it helps and the manual proscribes liquid filled tires for my cab tractor. So, I typically have a super HD box blade or brush hog on behind to counter balance FEL work and it works just fine. When I drop the counterbalance I am not stuck with the extra weight whether I like it/need it or not. Eventually I will make a 3PH mounted weight that is less in the way than my other counterbalances.

In the mean time I try not to be too jealous of the guys who CAN use liquid fill.

Pat

 

[6sunset6]

My dealer put in something called CitraStar..Found the MSDS Looks like Calcium Cloride with corrosion inhibitors of some kind. Cannot find anyother info on it. Anybody know anything about it?

 

[IslandTractor]

Wheel weights, if available for your tractor, are not exactly cheap. They cost at least $1/lb these days. I still checked to see if Kioti made them and the answer is no.

So, I am back to the question of which liquid. WWF is least messy and therefore easiest but costs at least $1.30/gallon unless I can figure out how to buy bulk. I need about 100 gallons so maybe two 55 gallon drums would work. Buying -20F rated WWF by the gallon would cost $130 from Home Depot. The deicer version rated to about -35F would cost almost double.

RV antifreeze (propylene glycol, non toxic) would cost more than RimGuard at about $4-5 per gallon.

CaCl is time tested and most common but my inquiries into cost of doing it myself have been kinda disappointing. I'd need a 3.5lb/gallon solution for -35F and that means 350lbs of CaCl2 flake at between $25-40 per 50lb bag in this area retail. Maybe I can find it cheaper but no luck so far at local retail places. That would work out to between $175 and 280 for materials.

RimGuard installed by a local tractor shop is out of the question at over $700 including transport. Self installed RimGuard is possible but at $3/gallon is no bargain. It is the best stuff however.

Although I am still waffling one direction and then the next, WWF in gallons is starting to look like the least hassle especially if I can buy it on sale. I won't need to manhandle 55gallon drums and lacking a pickup would also avoid a trailer.

 

[patrick_g]

Beach sand is cheap and essentially inert. Mix with sufficient anti-freeze or WWF to make a lose slury. You won't ever see rust inside the rims either!

Pat

 

[IslandTractor]

Beach sand is cheap and essentially inert. Mix with sufficient anti-freeze or WWF to make a lose slury. You won't ever see rust inside the rims either!

Pat

That seems like a great way to keep the inside of your tires well sanded. Slurry or not, there must be some friction with the sand particles rubbing against the tire. Has anyone actually done this?

 

[patrick_g]

That seems like a great way to keep the inside of your tires well sanded. Slurry or not, there must be some friction with the sand particles rubbing against the tire. Has anyone actually done this?

Not to my knowledge, I just made it up and out of concern for the environment I didn't mention filling tires with mercury.

Lead shot is round, rolls easy and not nearly as abrasive as sand. Depleted uranium, or other really heavy metals in small spheres would work.

Pat

 

[RexB]

... WWF in gallons is starting to look like the least hassle especially if I can buy it on sale. I won't need to manhandle 55gallon drums and lacking a pickup would also avoid a trailer.

A "what if"...this WWF concentrate cost 3$ and makes 4 gallons, or 75cents/gal. A further search might find a better deal, as long as the concentrate is an anti-freeze too, not just a soap.

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=TTV&MfrPartNumber=TT32&CategoryCode=3313

 

[IslandTractor]

A "what if"...this WWF concentrate cost 3$ and makes 4 gallons, or 75cents/gal. A further search might find a better deal, as long as the concentrate is an anti-freeze too, not just a soap.

Most of the concentrates are in fact largely soap. The expensive ingredient is the methanol which costs about $5/gallon these days in 55gallon drums. A 4 fold dilution of methanol would give you just 25% which is probably OK to -20F or so (I haven't looked it up) but that is essentially $1.25/gallon which is what WWF costs anyway.

 

[bobmisi]

When I bought my Branson a few months ago, the dealer filled the tires ( 17.5X24 ) with rim guard and it cost me 200 dollars total and they are full. I'll never understand putting in anything that will rust the rims. Been there, done that but those tires were loaded when I bought the tractors. This is my fiirst new tractor. Replacing the rims is expensive today and a real hassle, it just is a no brainer.

 

[IslandTractor]

When I bought my Branson a few months ago, the dealer filled the tires ( 17.5X24 ) with rim guard and it cost me 200 dollars total and they are full. I'll never understand putting in anything that will rust the rims. Been there, done that but those tires were loaded when I bought the tractors. This is my fiirst new tractor. Replacing the rims is expensive today and a real hassle, it just is a no brainer.

That is a very good deal. Wish I had not waffled when I bought mine.

Did you really have the dealer "fill" the tires? The tire companies recommend 75% of capacity so there is still some air to absorb shock loads etc.

 

[IslandTractor]

Just an update on my research into cost effective tire loading options.

First, CaCl2 is more expensive than I originally thought and would cost about $30-35 for a 50lb bag. Need 3.5lb per gallon for -35F so that means $250 for material.

Second, the methanol mixing is a bit trickier than I originally thought. You need to mix by mass (weight) not volume. Methanol weighs 6.6lbs/gallon while water weighs 8.3lbs/gal. That means that to get a 40% mix of methanol and water by mass, you need, by volume, 50% methanol and 50% water. A 40% by mass methanol/water mix freezes at -40F. If you dilute methanol even a little further, to a 30% by mass mix, your freezing point is only -15F.

Third, generic WWF is often rated at -20F freeze point but they don't really state the composition. Methanol is the expensive component so I wonder if these companies are scrimping. They don't need to add much additional water to leave you with a fluid that will freeze pretty easily.

Fourth, it is obvious that 75% tire fill with RimGuard or CaCl2 will add considerably more ballast weight than adding 40% methanol. I haven't calculated the difference exactly but it is about 30%.

Fifth, I have found methanol in 55 gallon drums for only $149. Shop around.

Conclusions to date: 1) best solution: have the dealer load with RimGuard before delivery, 2) CaCl ain't cheap but there is a good reason it is still the most popular Ag use ballast and the corrosion problem is often overstated. 3) Generic WWF is iffy for anyone in an area where -20F is a realistic possibility. 4) 50/50 methanol/water by volume looks like a pretty safe way to get a real -40F solution but the weight it adds is only about 7.5lbs/gallon which is less than water and much less than CaCl or RimGuard.

I'm leaning towards the 50/50 methanol/water solution but haven't done it yet.