Backhoe Backhoe decision

[brentj]

I've been looking for a backhoe for my Kubota 5040 (50 hp tractor). Finding used hoes is almost impossible but I've located one that I'm mulling. Hoe came off a Komatsu skid steer I believe. A 3 pt mount was welded to the mounting bracket an external pump/reservoir was added. I can get this setup for what I think is a good price $2000-2500. Some work does need to be finalized however such as incorporating the pump / reservoir in a more permanent setup and making a seat assembly. Any suggestions? I attached some pics.

 

[charlz]

From everything I have read on here about BH's it has two strikes against it. 3pt hoes can damage your tractor, you would be better off building a subframe and a way to attach it to your subframe. Those straight down feet have little clearance and can be a big pain when moving over uneven ground.

 

[jenkinsph]

From everything I have read on here about BH's it has two strikes against it. 3pt hoes can damage your tractor, you would be better off building a subframe and a way to attach it to your subframe. Those straight down feet have little clearance and can be a big pain when moving over uneven ground.

Very important points IMO.

If I were considering it I would have to envision a fix for these problems before I made the purchase. Be careful though depending on what it takes to fix everything up it may be a wash.

 

[Egon]

It seems like a large hoe for a three point hitch??

 

[McGeesEquip]

Usually, most Backhoes when sold on a tractor unit, have the subframe units. Units sold individually generally have the rigid 3 pt system and no top link is ever used. That looks like a bad accident ready to happen. When you go and start adding the costs for sub frame work where will you be?

Just my 2 cents, but I would give that a lot of thought before braking your unit in half. I've seen it done.

 

[Mousefield]

Very important points IMO.

If I were considering it I would have to envision a fix for these problems before I made the purchase. Be careful though depending on what it takes to fix everything up it may be a wash.

I agree that it could cost a fair bit to have this setup to fit your machine.
Do you have any idea on what all would be involved to make it fit properly on your tractor?

 

[brentj]

Thanks for the feedback. Not sure what it will take to make it work on my tractor. I hadn't thought about the clearance issue with the straight stabilizers. What is the rigid 3 pt system? I figured the 3 pt mount system that Rhino and Woods offered was like any other 3 pt attachment? Most o
manufacturers make 3 pt mounts so I'm hoping that unless I abuse the hoe I won't have issue.

 

[McGeesEquip]

On a rigid 3 point system on a backhoe, the center toplink is never used. If you use a toplink then the unit will bounce up and down just like other implements. Also, when you let the out rigers down then you will be sending a lot more upward pressure to the lift housing unit. I have attached a picture of a Great Bend backhoe, and you will notice there is a long bar coming from the center. That is used instead of the top link. Once it is adjusted to fit your tractor, then the backhoe will not go up and down and it will cause the backhoe to be locked in position and the 3 Point lift can not go up and down.

 

[brentj]

Great info. So where does the rigid bar mount to? Do you replace the top link with the bar or does it mount to another fixed point?

 

[McGeesEquip]

Yes, that center bar is to go where the toplink goes. You are suppose to remove the center toplink from the tractor to attach the backhoe.

With that type of rigid 3 point system, when you let the out rigers down, it will actually pick up the backend of the tractor without even moving the 3 point system and liftarms. You can not do that if a normal center top link is used. That is why the center bar on that GB backhoe is adjustable to fit different size tractors.

 

[irwin]

If your tractor doesn't have a loader...I'll be in the "don't do it" camp... but if it does.. then why not.
A backhoe that will fit the size and power of your tractor will cost many thousands of $... Having said that I'd be careful about using the 3pt for a backhoe mount...

There are several "built my own subframe" threads on here. If you have any fabrication talent ?... here's a project that can save you some money...or frustrate the heck outa ya. A couple years ago I did just that, took a 3pt backhoe and made a functional subframe for it... no it wasn't pretty like some of the more talented members have made.. but it was strong and I never had a concern about damaging my tractor while using it.

Do a search of TBN's archives on " subframe", "3pt backhoes" and then decide if this is for you.

The subframe is mounted to the loader mounts, then the frame is secured to the rear of the tractor on or near the rear axle, then the frame is securely mounted to the backhoe...
Ideally, make the hoe and subframe a solid unit that is securely mounted to the tractor.

 

[magicheater]

I would not do it. Don't like the stabilizers, where are you going to mount the tank?, What is the swing on it?, from the pics not sure how that would work. My opinion is you would be better off waiting for a more user friendly unit, I sold a 3PT back hoe last year for $2500 that was a "turn key" unit. Better deals out there unless you are dying for a project.

 

[brentj]

So I do have a buddy that is a great welder. I'll be pulling hard on the sub frame / rigid mounts if it comes home. I'm going to see it work first as far as the hydraulics. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Egon]

Look at how some of the Kubota dedicated backhoe tractors have the hoe mounted.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Are you planning on using the PTO pump or are you going to use the tractor hyd. I would use the tractor hyd. if possible. How wide are the out riggers? Will they be wider than your rear tires and how far down will thet extend. I went through this when I was looking for a hoe and found several setups like you are looking at and finally decided to wait and find exactly what I wanted.It saved a lot of headaches. If you look closely at the pics McGeesEquip posted the TPH mount is very rigid yet adjustable so you can have the hoe mounted at the proper angle. Also check your seat clearance.
Bill

 

[brentj]

I went and looked at the hoe today and it was just as advertised. Basically a brand new hoe that has been sitting a couple of years. All cylinders function as they should with no leakage and they were stored retracted so no rust or pitting at all. The hoe was not as big as it appeared in the pics. I measured total reach and it looks to be less than a Bradco 509 but similar to a Rhino 85. This is not the biggest hoe my 50 hp tractor could handle but with the skid steer mount extra weight it probably is a good thing it is a smaller hoe. The unit came with a separate PTO pump and reservoir but these are loose and will need to be incorporated into the unit in a permanent manner. Also no rigid 3 pt mounting or subframe so I'll need to remedy that. I gave $2,675 for the hoe which gives me some room to get it right and still have a nice hoe at a good total investment.

I would appreciate any additional thoughts on how to design a rigid 3 pt mount or some clever ideas to make a removable sub frame that wouldn't require pulling the 3 pt arms. I'm normally using a big tiller so the thought of pulling the arms isn't good. The tractor also has hydraulic cylinders on the top link and one of the arms so I really want to come up with a way to not disturb the 3 pt mounts. Please share any thoughts or pictures of your modifications in this regard. It really feels good to be in the hoe club.....

 

[dfkrug]

I have attached a picture of a Great Bend backhoe, and you will notice there is a long bar coming from the center. That is used instead of the top link. Once it is adjusted to fit your tractor, then the backhoe will not go up and down and it will cause the backhoe to be locked in position and the 3 Point lift can not go up and down.

Pretty much all of the 3rd party backhoe attachments that offer 3-pt
hookups do it that way. They provide what I call an "enhanced" toplink
to use instead of the standard cat 1 toplink one gets with their tractor.
The enhanced toplink is rigidly braced in the middle. Using a hoe
on the regular 3-pt hitch is dangerous as pushing down with the boom can
lift the hoe on the hitch and pinch the operator.

Here is a photo of the toplink and brace that you get with a Woods hoe.

I am no fan of using the proper 3-pt hitch setup (even with brace) over
a properly designed subframe.

 

[dfkrug]

I would appreciate any additional thoughts on how to design a rigid 3 pt mount or some clever ideas to make a removable sub frame that wouldn't require pulling the 3 pt arms.

The 5040 has plenty of room in the rear to install a subframe that
encircles the axle housings. Look at the "4-point" subframes from Kubota
(for the BH90), and Woods for ideas. It is easy to avoid the lower
3-pt arm pivots, as any good subframe design should, IMO. You can see
the Woods subframe in their installation manual on the Woods website.

More here:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/171760-how-build-your-own-custom.html

 

[Egon]

http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OMM135891_19/

This manual for John Deere backhoes will show how they are attached to the tractor. Of course yours will be different but there may be a few ideas here.