Backhoe- Build or Buy?

[wmgeorge]

I've got the plans ordered for a 608 CADDigger for my tractor, a 3 point attachment at perhaps 500 - 600 lbs. My total cost without the Hydraulic outriggers is about $2500 - $2600. With outriggers $3,800 or so. Plus my time to build, I figure about 50 hours.

I can get a Wallenstein GX500 for about $4700. This one has the outriggers and is professionally built. About the same weight and digging capacity.

I am concerned about resale or getting a decent price out of either when I'm ready to sell. I have no idea about used prices for these smaller ones, I know I can't find one to buy!!

I'm open to suggestions...??

I know a 3 point is not the mount of choice for those folks with new tractors. But mine is a older model JD 650, only 16 HP, but a cast iron transmission and rear axle housing.
BG in Iowa

 

[bx24]

Tough choice .... I love to build things, but for $900 more, I would consider buying the built one.

If the price difference were larger, I would go the other way, but when it comes to sell it, unless all of your work is really clean, regardless of how it works, people may shy away from a "contraption"

 

[MrJimi]

$900 difference, Thats $18 per hour based on your 50 hour build time PLUS materials, rods, grinding disc, paint and primer and all the little things that will nickel and dime you to pieces and cylinders, fluid, fittings Yeeesh
I would go with the built one
Jim

 

[RonMar]

There is a lot of detail work to properly fit up all the bushings. I have too many projects and was going to build one, but once I totaled up all the parts plus the time, my wife suggested that it might be better to buy one(Sure do love that woman)

 

[john_bud]

Let's see. 900 bucks - 50 hours - lots of shop supplies - $50-200 in paint depending on quality. Hmmm then for resale the Wallenstein will have a resale that is probably $2000 higher than the cad-digger. Hmmmm

I vote store bought.

Or look for a used one. I bought a tractor loader with a 14' hoe for $1500 total. Hoe did need about 10 hours of hugs & kisses, but works great.

jb

 

[2manyrocks]

You might find a Terramite, JCB or similar utility loader/backhoe tractor for $5000-7,500 used.

A 16 hp tractor may be low on horsepower and frame strength for a backhoe. One dealer advised me against putting a backhoe on my 22hp yanmar saying it could break my axles.

 

[wmgeorge]

You might find a Terramite, JCB or similar utility loader/backhoe tractor for $5000-7,500 used.

A 16 hp tractor may be low on horsepower and frame strength for a backhoe. One dealer advised me against putting a backhoe on my 22hp yanmar saying it could break my axles.

Thanks guys... BTW my old John Deere is cast iron (manual) transmission and rear axle housing. The one BH I'm looking at is 560 lbs... and with 16 HP I think I can safely say its not going to tear itself apart. I think with the losses in a hydrostatic drive vs manual transmission this is equal to a 20 HP tractor.

It does have enough gpm and pressure to operate the #67 loader, so I think it can handle the backhoe, not at the same time of course.

My concerns were you like most of you pointed out... when I get done building it, I would not find a buyer at any price.
Had that happen on a bucket and blade I built for my old JD 318, got nothing out of it when I sold it. BG in Iowa

 

[EddieWalker]

Plus my time to build, I figure about 50 hours.

Since I've never done anything like build a backhoe, I wonder where you came up with 50 hours to build one? Is that what they said it will take in the instructions? I'd imagine it taking twice that long. If you can do it in 50 hours, it might be worthwhile.

I wouldn't worry about resale, nobody knows one brand from another when buying used. All they care about is if it works, does it leak and what you want for it.

Name five backhoe brands and tell me what one is better then the others and why?

Eddie

 

[jeff_jeff]

you might want to check with Coldwatertractors.com he builds a 3 point backhoe, and as of a few years ago was selling it for $2500 - even with shipping it might be a good deal. I bought one of his FELs and was very pleased with it.

 

[Ductape]

I bought a Woods BH6000 used but in new condition for $2800. Look at the condition. I guarantee i can get $2800 for it next summer. Look around, they are out there...... new and used. Its a no brainer !

 

[Mith]

BG, I'm wondering how you came up with the costings? I just got done building a backhoe, it came in at about $2500 (has hydraulic stabilisers), and the prices over here are often inflated over what you guys pay.

I wouldnt consider anything but a subframe mounted backhoe. My tractor is 12HP, and even so the forces from the hoe are incredible!

If you;ve got only a little work to do (you are considering resale value very highly) then think about renting a tracked hoe, you can have one for an awful long time for $2500, and it'll outwork a small BH being a dedicated machine.

 

[wmgeorge]

BG, I'm wondering how you came up with the costings? I just got done building a backhoe, it came in at about $2500 (has hydraulic stabilisers), and the prices over here are often inflated over what you guys pay.

I wouldnt consider anything but a subframe mounted backhoe. My tractor is 12HP, and even so the forces from the hoe are incredible!

If you;ve got only a little work to do (you are considering resale value very highly) then think about renting a tracked hoe, you can have one for an awful long time for $2500, and it'll outwork a small BH being a dedicated machine.

The $2500 was buying the kit from MetKit and includes a little extra for paint and welding rod. If I get steel locally I could cut the costs, but could add more time. Add I don't need the hydraulic outrigger with the 3 point mount but I was comparing item to item.

I'd love to be able to rent, but this place is a 2.5 hour drive from here, so I'd need it for a 3 day or week long rental and that would make it about $750. There is a chance I could pick up some side work down there at the lake.

If I could find the like new used one as someone has posted here... I'd buy it in heartbeat. BG

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Be patient, with the building slowdown and the economy, you could probably find someone that needs money fast and will let one go cheap.

 

[wmgeorge]

In regards to a 3 point on my older tractor, I have a 650 rather than the 750 in this post copied from another Group, but the only difference between this guys 750 and my 650 is the size of the engine. The frame, transmission and rest is exactly the same as mine... from Tractorpoint.com >

Backhoes and breaking frames

Hmmmm. Well. I think I'd vote for the "Tempest in a Teapot" theory, based on my experience.

I have a 3 point hoe for my JD750. I've used it HARD, in rocky ground (coastal Maine) and at full extension. I don't intentionally abuse my equipment, but I need to get work done, so I don't baby it either.

In 8 years of this kind of work, I've cracked two castings ON THE HOE, and egged out the toplink pin holes in the bracket on the tractor. The toplink attachment point wear was obvious after the first year. I took the bracket off and had a machine shop bore it out and press in hardened bushings. Problem solved.

I have seen or experienced NO damage to the tractor itself.

Of course, now that I've said this, the dang thing will fold in half the next time I put the hoe on it...

BG in Iowa

 

[dfkrug]

BG:

First, let me say that I don't want to discourage any DIY person from
building a home built backhoe. It is a great learning experience, esp
in the areas of hydraulics, metal fab, machine tool use, welding, and
heat management.

My CADDigger 728 cost me maybe $3K in materials, and the few services
I needed to pay for. (cutting 2" holes in 1/2" plate is hard & that was
before I got a plasma cutter). Back when I did my hoe there were just a
few of the metal parts available pre-cut. Everything was cheaper then, too.
My engines were free.

My time in the project? Easily over 100hr; prob less than 200hr. I sold
it on Ebay for $3050 after I finished the projects I planned for it.

Does it make sense to build one, based solely on economics? No. There is
plenty of fab work involved in fixing up a trashed used hoe (ask JB!), and/or
there is plenty of fab work involved in building a subframe for your
tractor and a used or new hoe you buy. Not to mention customization,
such as a thumb or grapple.

 

[wmgeorge]

BG:

My CADDigger 728 cost me maybe $3K in materials, and the few services
I needed to pay for. (cutting 2" holes in 1/2" plate is hard & that was
before I got a plasma cutter). Back when I did my hoe there were just a
few of the metal parts available pre-cut. Everything was cheaper then, too.
My engines were free.

My time in the project? Easily over 100hr; prob less than 200hr. I sold
it on Ebay for $3050 after I finished the projects I planned for it.

Does it make sense to build one, based solely on economics? No. There is
plenty of fab work involved in fixing up a trashed used hoe (ask JB!), and/or
there is plenty of fab work involved in building a subframe for your
tractor and a used or new hoe you buy. N

Well I just got back from United Rental and it turns out I can rent the mini or compact excavator at $500 for a week.

(The other price I got was for a 3 day rental for a chain trencher.)

This little machine looks to be perfect for the jobs I had in mind and I can haul it on my tandem trailer.
It will involve a little more planning on my part to get all the work done in one week.

Yes I'd still like to build one, perhaps someday IF I can find the stuff used or buy one that needs some work, but I will look it more as a hobby thing than an investment. BG in Iowa
Thanks again to all the folks who took the time to read and answer this post!!

 

[john_bud]

Does it make sense to build one, based solely on economics? No. There is
plenty of fab work involved in fixing up a trashed used hoe (ask JB!), and/or
there is plenty of fab work involved in building a subframe for your
tractor and a used or new hoe you buy.

Not that anyone asked, but you have to enjoy fixing busted up junk to spend time fixing it up. The economics of the process are just not there. There are some benefits; Feeling of satisfaction - check. Feeling of empowerment - check. Feeling that you know a lot about that particular piece of equipment - check. Financial gain - uh .... no .... can't check that box!

I would guess that unless you have lots of tools, cheap access to metal, skills and time building your own tools are very similar to fixing busted up junk like my hoe project. Satisfying in its own right, but not going to save you heaps of money. If you want to as a project, I'm sure it would be a blast! Hope you eventually do it and share the process with us.

jb

 

[scgargoyle]

I'm surprised the components would cost that much- maybe you need to shop around. And as a machinist, I'd be amazed if you could actually build it in 50 hours. As close as your comparison prices are, it doesn't seem worth it to build one- unless you like that kind of thing. I would build one, but to me, the journey is at least as much fun as the destination, and I would spend a lot of time looking for deals on the components- ebay, surplus catalogues, auctions, etc.

 

[Kendrick]

Not that anyone asked, but you have to enjoy fixing busted up junk to spend time fixing it up. The economics of the process are just not there. There are some benefits; Feeling of satisfaction - check.
jb

You forgot 1 VERY important part my friend finding a reputable place to repair it for you... The sooner I get all the equipment needed to make any thing the happier I will be. no sending out to a machine shop only to have them make the mistakes for me. no disrespect intended towards your "fun" during your rebuild.

 

[wmgeorge]

You forgot 1 VERY important part my friend finding a reputable place to repair it for you... The sooner I get all the equipment needed to make any thing the happier I will be. no sending out to a machine shop only to have them make the mistakes for me. no disrespect intended towards your "fun" during your rebuild.

I'm a farm kid... learned to weld in my dads shop when I was 12 years old. I did commercial HVAC/R work for over 25 years, licensed master electrician, hobby machinist and semi pro metal fabricator. Not much I have to send out.
BG in Iowa