Backfilling pole barn, need advice

[Juiced06GTO]

Looks good, pretty similar to what I did. Are you going to do a vapor barrier under the slab? I used stego wrap under mine, taped all the seams and then put foam on top of that.

 

[deezler]

Nice. So... your rat wall is about 7 or 8 inches tall, underneath the slab height? I hope that is enough to accomplish your goal. I went 24" deep on my rat wall, below the slab bottom.

So now you need a sh!tload of fill brought inside the building to get leveled up to the top of your rat wall sections, right? fun!

 

[DrewStyduhar]

Juiced - Yes I plan on a vapor barrier but thinking about what I should do with the extra flap of plastic at each bay. Leave it flat and put stone on it? fold up and try to integrate into the "main" vapor barrier?

Deezler - Thats correct about it being 7-8 inches and underneath the slab. I have 100 tons of crusher sitting right out in front of the barn just waiting to be brought in. Would have had to do the same thing before, only difference is now these rat walls are here. Just need to finish a few more things and coordinate with this local guy. He will run the skid steer and ill run the rented twin drum compactor and plate. My goal was not necessarily to prevent groundhogs but doing something to help contain the fill. The only problematic area groundhogs could dig in is behind the barn but I have a plan for that. Talked to some concrete folks about doing a thickened edge slab but wasn't happy with the responses I got so pouring these myself was the only somewhat sane option left.

I have thought a lot about putting 2" foam under the ENTIRE slab but I just dont think that's the best option for me. I went over to a local guy's house who has a slightly smaller barn with full radiant heat and he was showing me the ins and outs. I think its neat but I just dont know about radiant under the ENTIRE thing. One gable end of my barn was setup with scissor trusses to accommodate my plans for framing in an office/clean area with storage above since I have 14' sidewalls. I am thinking about pouring this building slab in two sections, one would be approx 12x40 and the rest would be 36x40. My thinking is I can edge insulate the 12x40 and run the tubing just in that. My neighbor does commercial concrete finishing for large warehouses and him and one of his coworkers do side jobs during the spring. He said pouring 40x50 with just us 3 is too much to handle but he would make me a smokin deal on the labor for the 12x40 office area. Guy owes me a few favors so who knows. Still thinking though.

Thanks,

Drew

 

[deezler]

Gotcha. Well definitely don't pay for the high-psi foam board if you aren't going to heat the whole building.... it's expensive!!

I would ignore your current bits of vapor barrier, just do it all correctly on top when it's time for the main slab pour. Just 2c.

 

[jyoutz]

Hi guys,

Just finished a 40x48 pole barn. There is ~12" gap below the bottom of the skirt (2x8) that I need to do something with. This was intentional as the barn is on a slight grade and I wanted to raise it up a bit due to the crazy rain we get here in NC. Due to complications with the county, the building pad was built up just enough to create a level area for the builders to do their thing. Even then, this resulted in ~2.5' of fill in the back. Yes, I understand it would have made more sense to build pad up to

I have ~14" that needs filled up INSIDE the barn. I figure 4" concrete + 4" #57 and ~8" of compacted sandrock would do the trick. The outside we will blend off using cheap fill dirt. Should I double skirt this building with a 2x10 below the existing 2x8?

Just curious if anyone has been down this road before...the builder said they typically put the skirt right on grade but that wasn't going to work in this situation.

View attachment 702570

thanks for any advice!!

Drew

Form it up and pour a concrete skirt

 

[ovrszd]

The mistake was made when the pad wasn't leveled. Then it has just compounded.

By the comments and pics posted it's obvious many guys have made this mistake.

A building requires much thought and determination. Never move to the next step before the previous step is completed properly.

Entertaining posts!!!

 

[DrewStyduhar]

Form it up and pour a concrete skirt

What do you mean? Something different than what I have already been doing?

Drew

 

[DrewStyduhar]

The mistake was made when the pad wasn't leveled. Then it has just compounded.

By the comments and pics posted it's obvious many guys have made this mistake.

A building requires much thought and determination. Never move to the next step before the previous step is completed properly.

Entertaining posts!!!

I dont understand, is this directed towards me? The pad was leveled.

Drew

 

[ovrszd]

I dont understand, is this directed towards me? The pad was leveled.

Drew

If the pad was leveled and the building placed accordingly why would there be a need to "fill" anything?

Maybe I missed something in the original picture? It appears the skirt of the building is a foot or so off the ground?

Sorry if I missed something.

 

[ovrszd]

I dont understand, is this directed towards me? The pad was leveled.

Drew

I went back and reread your original post and picture. Whether your pad is level or not isn't the issue. Pad elevation is. Again, should have been considered before construction. The bottom treated skirt board should be sitting on the ground. Or even dug in a couple inches.

I'm not picking on anyone. Just offering observations. When the building construction was done dirt would be brought in to raise the surrounding pad to the bottom of the metal which would create a slope away.

 

[DrewStyduhar]

I went back and reread your original post and picture. Whether your pad is level or not isn't the issue. Pad elevation is. Again, should have been considered before construction. The bottom treated skirt board should be sitting on the ground. Or even dug in a couple inches.

I'm not picking on anyone. Just offering observations. When the building construction was done dirt would be brought in to raise the surrounding pad to the bottom of the metal which would create a slope away.

Dude, literally in the first paragraph ""Due to complications with the county, the building pad was built up just enough to create a level area for the builders to do their thing."""

The county pulled some BS with me a week or so before the build was planned to start and AFTER the pad was already built and compacted and signed off by the soil engineer. What, am I supposed to pay thousands last minute to have some dirt company to reconstruct the the pad? or just raise the building up and work with what I have? I know what the plans call out and the skirt board's relation to grade, I'm not an idiot. Even if I had not raised the building up, I already had positive grade on three sides, it was only the front of the build where we had negative grade.

I'm just not sure what your point is though...sounds like you are simply poking fun at folks and making assumptions that every issue is the result of piss poor planning.

Mike Tyson - "everyone has a plan until they punched in the mouth"

 

[ovrszd]

Dude, literally in the first paragraph ""Due to complications with the county, the building pad was built up just enough to create a level area for the builders to do their thing."""

The county pulled some BS with me a week or so before the build was planned to start and AFTER the pad was already built and compacted and signed off by the soil engineer. What, am I supposed to pay thousands last minute to have some dirt company to reconstruct the the pad? or just raise the building up and work with what I have? I know what the plans call out and the skirt board's relation to grade, I'm not an idiot. Even if I had not raised the building up, I already had positive grade on three sides, it was only the front of the build where we had negative grade.

I'm just not sure what your point is though...sounds like you are simply poking fun at folks and making assumptions that every issue is the result of piss poor planning.

Mike Tyson - "everyone has a plan until they punched in the mouth"

First, I'm not a Dude.

You will spend the same money or more to elevate within the building that you would have spent to elevate before construction.

Second, my point was discussion in how to properly build a pad. Not pointing fingers at anyone. Not poling fun at anyone. Not claiming piss poor planning. Just discussing how to properly build a pad.

Third, PM me and I'll give you my address so you can come and execute your "Mike Tyson".

 

[DrewStyduhar]

To be frank, I don't care if you are male, female or identify as a broom handle...."dude".

Without you knowing what I paid to have my pad built, sandrock/rock prices around here, what the build crew planned to charge me if I set them back, and all the other costs you really don't know ANYTHING regarding the cost difference. And to be honest at this point, who even cares...I have what I have and I'm working with it.

As far as you discussing how to properly build a pad, you are FOS. And even if you WERE discussing pad building I did not ask how to properly build a pad. So why?

Not sure what to say about your last comment......if you are mistaking my Mike Tyson quote with threatening you harm then you aren't firing on all cylinders anyway.

Please, if you are just looking to get your post count up or something go elsewhere.

thanks,

Drew

 

[deezler]

Don't let him get you feeling defensive, Drew. Sure, accommodating the elevated building is taking some extra work now, but you're handling it. Keep forging ahead!

When I built my 30x36 pole barn, I had an oversized compacted dirt slab that had some drainage in all directions, so they put the bottom treated skirt board basically right onto my grade. Had to dig down an inch or two in one corner, and left a couple inches of gap on the other sides; no problem. The best part about this was indeed the minimal work require inside to get prepped for my slab afterwards. Just had to pull out a handful of loader buckets of surplus soil, then level, compact, 2" foam, 5" slab.

I think you will actually come to appreciate having your building somewhat elevated. Especially with that backside drainage issue you mentioned initially.

 

[ovrszd]

To be frank, I don't care if you are male, female or identify as a broom handle...."dude".

Without you knowing what I paid to have my pad built, sandrock/rock prices around here, what the build crew planned to charge me if I set them back, and all the other costs you really don't know ANYTHING regarding the cost difference. And to be honest at this point, who even cares...I have what I have and I'm working with it.

As far as you discussing how to properly build a pad, you are FOS. And even if you WERE discussing pad building I did not ask how to properly build a pad. So why?

Not sure what to say about your last comment......if you are mistaking my Mike Tyson quote with threatening you harm then you aren't firing on all cylinders anyway.

Please, if you are just looking to get your post count up or something go elsewhere.

thanks,

Drew

Got it.

 

[DrewStyduhar]

Hey guys,

First off Merry Xmas to everyone!,

So I haven't finished pouring the rest of the curbs/ratwalls because I want to make sure I'm set on my plan for which utilities I'm bringing to the barn. I wanted some thoughts on a few of my plans.

Water

- Will be a 200' run (slightly downhill) from the house in 1" 200psi blue poly buried 24" deep.

- This water feed to barn will only support a wash tub and an exterior spigot

- I already have ~300' feet of brand new 200psi 1" pipe that I would prefer to use. Im sure I could eek out another few psi with less friction loss from 1.25" but I dont think its worth the $$$

- I have decided where the water should come into the barn and my plan is to dig down and bury a large diameter gray electrical pvc large radius elbow so I can snake the poly pipe in AFTER concrete is poured.

- I already have a 3" diameter 24" radius gray PVC elbow from another project. I checked and the blue pipe has a lot of wiggle room to snake through that big elbow so I know it will work. Last night I picked up a 2" diameter 24" radius elbow from Lowes and I dont like how the blue pipe snakes through that. So yeah the 3" elbow is a little bigger than needed but I already have it in my possession so dont think its worth the money to go track down a 2.5" elbow. Other ideas? You guys think schedule 40 is ok?

- The elbow will poke through the future concrete floor inboard of the ratwall by about 6" and I think it makes good sense to bury this elbow BEFORE pouring that corresponding curb.

Any thoughts/advice?

thank you,

Drew

 

[JimRB]

When I built my barn I stubbed in water supply, roughed in a half bath and a wash rack. It took a few years to get around to hooking up the water which was 3/4" supply from the house. Barn is a bit more than 200 feet from house. The neighbor's son saw me build my barn all summer. Once our house was built he traded me barn building help for digging a ditch and running copper wire service in pvc conduit from the house panel to the barn. We dropped a conduit for a phone line and ran that 3/4" water line from the house. He owned an industrial electrical contracting company. 3/4" water supply works fine for watering up to 10 horses on the property.

 

[Randy Gann]

The elbow may hold ground water so you might want to put loose gravel under the elbow to help drainage

 

[Mpreston16]

Hi guys,

Just finished a 40x48 pole barn. There is ~12" gap below the bottom of the skirt (2x8) that I need to do something with. This was intentional as the barn is on a slight grade and I wanted to raise it up a bit due to the crazy rain we get here in NC. Due to complications with the county, the building pad was built up just enough to create a level area for the builders to do their thing. Even then, this resulted in ~2.5' of fill in the back. Yes, I understand it would have made more sense to build pad up to

I have ~14" that needs filled up INSIDE the barn. I figure 4" concrete + 4" #57 and ~8" of compacted sandrock would do the trick. The outside we will blend off using cheap fill dirt. Should I double skirt this building with a 2x10 below the existing 2x8?

Just curious if anyone has been down this road before...the builder said they typically put the skirt right on grade but that wasn't going to work in this situation.

View attachment 702570

thanks for any advice!!

Drew

I don’t understand why you didn’t go on down. Should have poured a concrete footer or cinder block at minimum just to prevent your band board from resting right on the ground and rotting out. Then took your metal down to the footer. The way it was done doesn’t really make a lot of sense.

 

[deezler]

I don’t understand why you didn’t go on down. Should have poured a concrete footer or cinder block at minimum just to prevent your band board from resting right on the ground and rotting out. Then took your metal down to the footer. The way it was done doesn’t really make a lot of sense.

Sounds like you would be pretty disappointed in a majority of pole barns here across the midwest then.

Putting the skirt or band boards right into the ground is how it's done. Mine were done with full ground-contact rated, tongue and groove 2x6s. Three courses of them, two are below grade, the top one is above.

Back-fill the building exterior, fill and compact inside as needed, then you pour the slab inside and it's already all formed up by your skirt boards. So what if they get a little rotten over the years, they aren't structural in any way.

As with any building, you need to make sure you have good drainage away on all sides. Then the ground-contact skirt boards ought to last 50+ years.