Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket

/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #1  

rScotty

Super Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2001
Messages
9,903
Location
Rural mountains - Colorado
Tractor
Kubota M59, JD530, JD310SG. Restoring Yanmar YM165D
On another thread, mike69440 wrote about upgrading his FEL hydraulics, regeneration in the bucket curl circuit, and also made a brief reference to being careful while backdragging. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...zed-hydraulic-clyinders-loaders-new-post.html

Well, The L39 is finally back together.
One thing I found out the at the bucket dump circuit is always in regeneration mode. This is why the dump cycle is so fast.
The good thing about this is that regen discourages back dragging with the front edge of the bucket. Back dragging with the front edge of a bucket beats the crap out of your loaded. Don't ask how I know.

The bad part is if your stuck in mud, etc. the bucket does not have a lot of force to roll back and move you forward.

Mike, I'm still trying to figure out if my own tractor has regeneration in the curl circuit, but it occurs to me that whether it does or not, the whole subject of back dragging could do with some discussion.

It is possible to backdrag without hurting the tractor, and it's a handy technique. Over the last 40 years we've done nearly as as much work backdragging as using the bucket going forwards. And no problems doing it so far.

Our land is mostly an old meandering stream bed, so it's actually got more rock than sand or dirt. That's no exaggeration; digging a hole always produces a larger pile of rocks than dirt. We end up stacking a lot of rocks and cherish the little bit of dirt. Rocks are mostly granite ranging from small to landscape size with something the size of a basketball or briefcase being the most common.


Anyway, we end up doing a lot of back dragging with the FEL bucket to smooth things out....it's just part of what we've always done. It's just about impossible to push a bucket forwards anyway when there are lots of rocks, so back-dragging is the main trick we have to use any time we want to get a bucket full of material.. Depending on the shape of the bucket and the angle the lip makes with the ground, back dragging can be used to bury the small stuff or to expose and loosen the "soil". Back dragging can even be used to roll the larger rocks up out of the ground. With all the back dragging we do, we've never had a problem with beating up the loader. The trick is to keep the angle of the bucket as shallow as the work will allow and go slow allowing the weight of the front of the tractor to do the work. Sometimes for final smoothing we backdrag with a loaded bucket. The shape of the back edge and bottom of the bucket makes a difference too.

My own next project is to adapt a SSQA to the front loader so that we can back drag using an angling grader blade or use a rock rake in place of the bucket. That ought to be real interesting. Who knows, we might even end up plowing in reverse!
enjoy,
rScotty
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #2  
My own next project is to adapt a SSQA to the front loader so that we can back drag using an angling grader blade or use a rock rake in place of the bucket. That ought to be real interesting. Who knows, we might even end up plowing in reverse!

A box blade on the front is very useful. :thumbsup:

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/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #3  

Xfaxman

I've been impressed by that red what ever it is, since I've seen your posts.
Larger tires up front and having the front axle not on a pivot lend stability.
I bet that little thing can outwork most shiny expensive tractors of similar size.

I assume if you really wanted a regular tractor you could afford one, as that Toolcat in the background was not free.

I'm surprised at how well my little ballasted Mahindra Max 28 handles the 6' Landpride box blade I originally got for my L39. A 5' ft blade would be better, but the Little Max pulls a load of stone down driveways to spread just fine.
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #4  
It is possible to backdrag without hurting the tractor, and it's a handy technique.

I agree, but you have to be careful, esp if your loader has small bkt cyl rods, like the 420
FEL on JD4300s. At full extension, they are easy to buckle, at only 25mm.

Now your M59 is a very robust industrial machine (as is the L39), and the FEL is built
to take a lot of abuse. 4-in-1 buckets are commonly seen on these units, and back-dragging
is one of the things they do best.

XFAXMAN's box blade on the FEL is a way to have great back-drag abilities without the
expense of a 4-in-1.

I have back-dragged many many tons of rocks and dirt before I got my 4-in-1.
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #5  
Xfaxman

I've been impressed by that red what ever it is, since I've seen your posts.
Larger tires up front and having the front axle not on a pivot lend stability.
I bet that little thing can outwork most shiny expensive tractors of similar size.

Yep, it will lift 800 pounds, click the link in my signature for the Put Together details.

I assume if you really wanted a regular tractor you could afford one, as that Toolcat in the background was not free.
I have owned more tractors than I can remember, but I sold my MF240D soon after I bought the first compact telehandler. My wife bought the Toolcat to do the brush hogging right after we moved here.

I'm surprised at how well my little ballasted Mahindra Max 28 handles the 6' Landpride box blade I originally got for my L39. A 5' ft blade would be better, but the Little Max pulls a load of stone down driveways to spread just fine.

The Toolcat with a 6' box blade on a SSQA to 3 point adapter, in dry red clay:

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Dozer mode :thumbsup:

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/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #6  
I to have been an avid back dragger for the past 12 years with BXs and Bs and one L. Never had any issues with back dragging but I've used a RatchetRake for most of those years. RR is a fantastic attachment for the front bucket.
Skidsteer and tractor aren't in the same class of equipment nor is a dozer. I tried the SS route for a short time and got back to a Kubota tractor pretty quick. SS is construction equipment machine while tractors can do tractor work. Most attachments for SSs are twice the price and triple heavier duty.
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #7  
I back drag all the time.

I think the implication to be careful.....dont dump the bucket all the way (or near all the way) and put alot of downward force on the bucket and start backing up.

Best case scenario, you blow a hydraulic hose. Worst case is bending a rod.
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #8  
Ok, I decided my next neat thing is to be able to hang all my 3PT stuff off the loader, just like my Fisher Plow.

I could do this myself but I am lazy, smart and time limited, so who can post 3D CAD models of a sweet QA Plate to 3 Pt Hitch adapter with material list, so I don't have to design it myself or can have a starting point to work with if i want to tweak it some?
I haven't searched the Sites like 3D Cad Central etc. yet. I work Solidworks so native vs .step is even better.
After the time I put into my QA 3pt hitch mods, I.m looking for the "Easy button". I love the way it turned out, but too much work and $$.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/327912-custom-3-point-attachment-2-a.html?highlight=
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #9  
Yep, it will lift 800 pounds, click the link in my signature for the Put Together details.

I have owned more tractors than I can remember, but I sold my MF240D soon after I bought the first compact telehandler. My wife bought the Toolcat to do the brush hogging right after we moved here. QUOTE]

Our RTV900 (stepson's toy) is really handy, but a too small to plow snow with. The ToolCat (Ah, a Cab!), would be really nice to I bet to hang a big Snow Plow off the front and would be a great vehicle to have on a farm.
I'd really have to get lucky with our meager investments to swing one however.
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #10  
Ok, I decided my next neat thing is to be able to hang all my 3PT stuff off the loader, just like my Fisher Plow.

I could do this myself but I am lazy, smart and time limited, so who can post 3D CAD models of a sweet QA Plate to 3 Pt Hitch adapter with material list, so I don't have to design it myself or can have a starting point to work with if i want to tweak it some?
----------------------
Can't help with the 3D CAD stuff, but be sure to add extra rollback to the adapter.

For build ideas here is my Cat2, from: Skid steer Bobcat 3 point implement hitch adapter Heavy Duty

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/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #11  
Xfaxman

Ah Ha!

I see said the blind man.

Think I'll be ordering another Skid Steer Plate!
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #12  
There are a variety of reasons the mfrs tell you not to do backdragging. Almost all those reasons are covering their butts as the easy answer. The truth is "just watch what you are doing and realize there are risks." Many think backdragging is just an angled downward bucket smoothing out rough soil while in reverse. To others it means pointing the bucket tip back toward the tractor and using it to dig while in reverse. If you do that in hard clay and have plenty of tractor power and plenty of traction ... see attached photo ... yes, you can wreak some havoc. This steel line you see kinked away from the loader arm used to be straight. Here it has exploded. I was leveling a building lot in hard clay and back cutting with the bucket which was the WRONG tool. Laziness -- failing to go put on the scraper box. Since it was just a section of hydraulic line ( and the dealer had it in stock) I was very lucky for a do-it-myself fix. Lesson learned.

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/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #13  
Over the 34 years I've had a tractor - I back drag with the bucket quite often. I put the bucket flat on the ground - put the system in float - and back up. I VERY SELDOM need to put any downforce into the system to obtain satisfactory results. Likewise - I've never had any damage to any part of the system.
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #14  
Is this what you are looking for?
 

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/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #15  
Over the 34 years I've had a tractor - I back drag with the bucket quite often. I put the bucket flat on the ground - put the system in float - and back up. I VERY SELDOM need to put any downforce into the system to obtain satisfactory results. Likewise - I've never had any damage to any part of the system.

I do the same, but with the bucket at an angle:

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/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #16  
Over the 34 years I've had a tractor - I back drag with the bucket quite often. I put the bucket flat on the ground - put the system in float - and back up. I VERY SELDOM need to put any downforce into the system to obtain satisfactory results. Likewise - I've never had any damage to any part of the system.
I backdrag with the front wheels in the air often. Bucket variable up to almost vertical. Only problem so far [1500hrs] has been steering.
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #17  
Is this what you are looking for?
Titan 5/16 Quick Attach Attachment Mount Plate Skid steer bobcat kubota 516MP | eBay
That's the part you buy, the you start adding metal, time and a lot more dollars.

Amazon.com: Skid Steer Loader Quick Attach Mount Plate to Category 1 3 Point Adapter Attachment: Patio, Lawn & Garden

On second thought. Harbor Freight
3-Point Quick Hitch for Tractors - 27-3/16" Clearance

and some cut plate to add extra roll back angle should not be to bad to Fab up.

Thanks
 
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/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #18  
I have a SSQA plate with attachment points for 3 ph and 2" reese hitch built on the front of it. I bought it to use boxblade on the front of a skid steer but now have it attached to a 72" snow plow. Not sure where I bought it but was around the $100 price range.
I also have a front mount backhoe on my B2650 with 25 hours and two new fel cylinder arms that replaced the bent ones.:confused3:
I have been a back dragger with bucket edge at every angle on all dirt/clay surfaces but will be more attentive in the future. Glad my replacement cylinder arms were under warranty.:thumbsup:
PS The front mount backhoe is now for sale for $1500 in like new condition and my front bucket mount Landpride HD25 post hole digger is on order with Barlows in Somerset, Ky.
 
/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #19  
Titan 5/16 Quick Attach Attachment Mount Plate Skid steer bobcat kubota 516MP | eBay
That's the part you buy, the you start adding metal, time and a lot more dollars.

Amazon.com: Skid Steer Loader Quick Attach Mount Plate to Category 1 3 Point Adapter Attachment: Patio, Lawn & Garden

On second thought. Harbor Freight
3-Point Quick Hitch for Tractors - 27-3/16" Clearance

and some cut plate to add extra roll back angle should not be to bad to Fab up.

Thanks

Several TBN folk have welded a Titan plate to the back of a HF quick hitch.
 

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/ Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket #20  
Several TBN folk have welded a Titan plate to the back of a HF quick hitch.

And later, some of them said that they should have put more rollback into it.
 
 
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