B3030 and B26

[The Gardener]

Do any of you have experience cutting with a rear mount mower?

Kubota offers a 72" rear mount mower for the B3030 and other tractors. I gather they are more challenging to stay on line. I also suspect that they are difficult to follow a curved edge.

Thoughts on the pros and cons when comparing the MMM to the rear mount mower. I am trying to explore every possible solution having never used any of them. I still use a riding mower, but that has to stop. It's way too slow, and I am getting fried by the sun and heat.

Thanks!
The Gardener

 

[hazmat]

5 years ago when I bought my New Holland I had to wait for the MMM. The dealer lent me a rear finish mower (land pride).

The subject of RFM vs. MMM is almost as hotley debated as Hydrostatic vs. Gear.

RFM

Pros:
less expensive - look at woods or landpride vs. the Kubota (less $$ good quality)
able to back it under low branches
Marginally easier to hook up

Cons:
not as manuverable - when you turn left it swings right etc.
no way to collect clippings if desired - (bagger trac vac etc.)
On smaller tractors may require front weight for transport

MMM

Pros:
easier to manuver
Able to collect clippings

Cons:
more expensive
interferes with backhoe on some brands (New Holland) - not an issue on the B3030

Having run both - I'm firmly in the MMM camp if you have any trees, fences etc. to mow around. For a wide open field - save the $$ and get the RFM

 

[The Gardener]

I'm firmly in the MMM camp if you have any trees, fences etc. to mow around. For a wide open field - save the $$ and get the RFM.

We have just about every mowing scenario to deal with from hills, to woods lines, to gardens, to trees, to exposed boulders, to a manicured lawn and rougher terrain away from the house and barn. It all points to the MMM.

My two reservations about the B3030HSDC becoming our all-in-one tractor [TLB and MMM] are:

[1] the need to remove and re-attach the backhoe and the FEL every week. I worry about injury when doing repetitive tasks that can lead to this type of disaster. I also lack a perfectly level floor. It would need to be done on the relatively flat dirt or lawn.

[2] the lack of a hydraulic thumb on the Woods BH80-X backhoe.

Not having used a fixed thumb and only having minimum experience using a hydraulic thumb, I am unsure just how significant the difference is.

Aside from these two concerns, I am very impressed with the B3030HSDC. I won't be using our tractor in the winter for snow removal. Our door yard is quite small. I clear it with a walk behind snow blower. I only want the cab for A/C to cut the lawn during the warmer months.

 

[witel]

I thought the whole line of Kubota TLBs (B21, B26, L39, L48) had integrated FELs that could not be removed ... or are not intended to be removed. The buckets can drop-off and be replaced. I know the L39 is that way. I do not know much about the B21.

 

[_RaT_]

5 years ago when I bought my New Holland I had to wait for the MMM. The dealer lent me a rear finish mower (land pride).

The subject of RFM vs. MMM is almost as hotley debated as Hydrostatic vs. Gear.

RFM

Pros:
less expensive - look at woods or landpride vs. the Kubota (less $$ good quality)
able to back it under low branches
Marginally easier to hook up

Cons:
not as manuverable - when you turn left it swings right etc.
no way to collect clippings if desired - (bagger trac vac etc.)
On smaller tractors may require front weight for transport

MMM

Pros:
easier to manuver
Able to collect clippings

Cons:
more expensive
interferes with backhoe on some brands (New Holland) - not an issue on the B3030

Having run both - I'm firmly in the MMM camp if you have any trees, fences etc. to mow around. For a wide open field - save the $$ and get the RFM

I'd agree with those thoughts. I did not know that we had folks firmly ensconced in MMM or RFM camps.

 

[jrock]

I had a MMM on my B2400. It really sucked to install & remove. You cant get as close to trees & such with the RFM but, you can back up underneath a lot of low hanging Branches,Bushes etc... For me i would rather hook up the RFM twice than that MMM aborted set up...
I will say, the MMM once attatched did a excellent job of mowing.
jrock

 

[The Gardener]

I thought the whole line of Kubota TLBs (B21, B26, L39, L48) had integrated FELs that could not be removed ... or are not intended to be removed. The buckets can drop-off and be replaced. I know the L39 is that way. I do not know much about the B21.


You are correct. They are not truly designed for mowing although you could use a rear mounted mower off the PTO. Manueverability with the FEL in place and a rear mounted mower would be limited to open field cutting.

If I should choose the B26, I'll need to find a different mowing option.

I am not too enthusiastic about the BH removal effort from any tractor. I am also leaning away from the all-in-one solution [TLB and MMM] because it ties up the tractor for hours where the TLB could be getting use on other projects at the same time. My other concern are the hours and the wear and tear that the lawn cutting introduces to any tractor. Used strictly as a TLB, I think we can milk a B26 for 20 years. If we add mowing to the equation [i.e. a B3030 TLB and MMM solution or B26 and a RFM], we'll definitely beat up either tractor long before year 20 arrives. The fields are rough, hilly, they have pot holes, and they have ruts. The wear and tear from mowing is unavoidable.

A *used* zero-turn run at 3/4 speed may be a solution.

It might be better to sacrafice something less valuable for the mowing duties, and forfeit the enjoyment of an A/C cab. Ouch, that thought hurts ... :-\

 

[hazmat]

A 60" ZTR will out-mow the B3030 w/ 72" deck. It's all about manuverability.

Considering that the 72" deck is north of $3K, you've got a decent downpayment on a ZTR. Be aware there are commercial grade and homeowner grade ZTRs - A commercial grade will last much longer. Some are avialable with diesel engines (Kubota for example).

In the interest of marital harmony, I have one machine that does it all. If you have deep pockets and/or an understanding spouse, the easiest (aside from storage issues) solution is a dedicated mowing machine. It also affords you the opportunity to go larger on the TLB - L39 or L48 for example. You don't need to worry about weight or manuverability as much if you aren't going to cut the grass with it. If you have that much backhoe work that you are concerned about swapping out the hoe every week, you may want to consider somthing bigger than the B26. It's real easy to spend other people's money...

That said, I wouldn't go for 2 units just because you are worried about wear and tear on the tractor. They are built to work & most of us homeowners don't have enough spare time to rack up the hours on them.

While I'd enjoy AC while I mow, It only takes me 45 minutes to cut my 1 acre of lawn - There is enough shade in the "back 40" that I don't get overheated. I actually get hotter on other projects where I'm confined to full sun. A canopy might help (but I've got height issues in my garage).

 

[yekrut]

Hazmat makes some good points. Have to agree with him if you can swing it. I have about 14 acres. Yard is full of mature trees. I mow about 2.5 acres around the house. Across the creek I have about 4 acres of tree farm with 30 yr old hard woods (Red & White Oaks, and Black Walnuts) they are evenly spaced in perfect rows. So I mow about 6-7 acres. I have a 4x4 21hp tractor with 60" BH and a commerial 54" zero turn. The ZT is made to mow and cuts the time in half if not more. I occasional run the BH through their if I have a lot of big limbs but even if I let it go a while the ZT can still cut very high grass. Just have to slow down a little. I use the BH for clearing mostly. I am going the L39 route matter of it should be here in a couple hrs. Hopefully these 3 will make a nice combination. The B26 may be a good choice for you if you could find another mowing options. I may of gone that route if I didn't have another tractor.

 

[witel]

I struggled with the cab vs backhoe choice for a while.

Factors that weighed into my decision for a BH over a cab:

• It's not EXTREMELY hot here in the foothills ... despite today's expected high of 98. There's no/low humidity here, so it's not totally miserable. It's more of getting away from the direct sun and the cold/snow in the winter. Is it managable? Yes. I'm a big boy, and can wear a hat, long-sleeves, and a coat for the brief times that I may be using the machine during adverse weather conditions. So, I decided I didn't ABSOLUTELY NEED a cab due to weather.
• Then, I posted this thread regarding the long-term use of a BH.

The absence of a cab allowed me to look at the TLBs (where a factory-cab is not even an option, but third-party cabs still are) where I have locked-in on the powerful L39 ... which has a FOPS ... which will help with the weather a bit. So, in a round-about way, I win!

 

[witel]

Regarding hydraulics ... this is another source of power on a machine other than the PTO, weight, and pulling power. For me (my disclaimer), I personally won't use the PTO the vast majority of the time, so I like the idea of having more umph in the hydraulics ... for the FEL, BH, and hydraulic implements (i.e. Hydraulic PHD and thumb, et. al.). Also, the more pumps the better. The PTO-based implements that I would use would tend to be smaller, so PTO HP is not of the essence for me.

Regarding 3 vs 4 cylinders ... there are numerous threads regarding 3 vs 4 cyclinders and perceived pros and cons of each. I have no intention of poking a hornet's nest by discussing this; however, for me (again my disclaimer), as an engineer/physicist, I believe that 3 cylinders makes for a better engine ... generically speaking. That said, once you start crossing the 30HP range into the 40HP range, I believe (and, I'd have to re-research this in my copious spare-time) the efficiencies of 3-cylinders starts to drop off and 4-cylinders becomes more efficient.

 

[The Gardener]

Many Thanks to all of you for some very insightful posts.

Buying two machines with two years between the purchases is something we could probably afford. It just seems like a two machine solution [a dedicated mower and a TLB] is the way we should go.

Our acreage is quite diverse: some manicured lawn, some open field, and a fair amount is wooded. The B26 seems like the right fit for our needs, for our experience level, and for our list of realistic goals on this property. Goals involving gardens, a small pond, and some steady rock and tree work.

As for mowing, I presently cut about 4 acres of lawn and open field and most of the time I am without the comfort of shade. We're clearing another 3 acres of woods to create additional open field. The B26 is a max purchase for us. It is slated for May 2008. After two years of payments, something like a zero-turn would be feasible - especially if I found a nice used one.

 

[bandit67]

I was going to put a response together for you yesterday, but got sidetracked, so here goes.

Years back, my dad and I bought a Yanmar with a 48" RFM. I did a lot of mowing on a 2 acre Connecticut lot, with boulders, trees, dips, slopes, flat areas, and all sorts of typical New England obstacles. I wasn't a big fan of the rear finish mower - lots of stops, backing, turning, and other time consuming maneuvers - it did shine backing up to mow under trees, but as far as I was concerned, it was a cumbersome mowing setup.

My most recent machine had a 60" MMM, and it was a much easier machine to mow with. One of the big improvements was that with a MMM, only the front wheels ride ahead of the mower - 4 wheels, especially the larger rears rolling over the grass ahead of the RFM, trample a lot of grass and leave a lesser quality cut on the lawn.

Between both of those machines, and with my last couple of years doing some major landscaping, I decided that when I purchase a larger machine , I will not purchase a mower deck for the tractor. Instead, I would opt for a nice walk behind 36"-48" dedicated mower (you can get seat or platform trailers so that the machine is pulling you around, instead of you running behind it), or a zero turn riding unit.

It just got to be a bit of a pain having to remove all the dirt working attachments and put the mower on just to do an hour or two mowing job, then go back and switch everything out again. I had a lot of landscaping tasks for a 2 year period, and it would have been nice to not have had to do the mowing with the tractor. Another issue is that even a 5' wide finish mower can be a pain if you are not on a completely level lot - it did a beautiful job, but on the rolling ground, even a 48" walk-behind can have difficulty doing a nice even cut. For something the size of a B3030, you'd want the 72" MMM so that you can get in close to trees, shrubs, edges, etc., and assuming you've got some rolling land up there, you'll be doing touch-up with a walk behind.

Sounds like with the limited amount of manicured lawn, a mower deck for a tractor of that size might be a bit overkill, plus you don't want to beat on a finish mower deck mowing field grasses. If you have more field grasses than manicured turf, a 3pt mounted rough mower will do fine, even attached to a B26, and if you wanted to lighten the front a tad, you can drop the bucket off the QA.

Since I sold my tractor, although I miss that nice 60" MMM, I've had the use of a 37" walk behind mower, and I must say I'm really impressed with the cut, and I am getting my exercise. Once we've chosen our next property, which will be larger than the current one, if there is enough manicured lawn to justify a decent mower, I will be getting a tractor for the landscape work, and a separate dedicated mower to deal with the lawn. If I didn't have a need for so much landscaping work, I might have a different opinion regarding the tractor mounted mower. But I like my landscaping projects, and with a tractor, I find myself planning new projects every year.

 

[The Gardener]

if there is enough manicured lawn to justify a decent mower, I will be getting a tractor for the landscape work, and a separate dedicated mower to deal with the lawn. If I didn't have a need for so much landscaping work, I might have a different opinion regarding the tractor mounted mower. But I like my landscaping projects, and with a tractor, I find myself planning new projects every year.

I think you have summed up our scenario perfectly in these lines above.

We definitely have enough manicured lawn to justify a dedicated mower. Likewise, it seems that every time we walk around the property, we generate a new landscape idea. Many of these ideas have been placed on the back burner while we build up funds to purchase a B26 next May. We need a backhoe to tackle these ideas.

Like you, I just do not want to go through the task of disconnecting and reconnecting tractor implements each time I am faced with cutting the lawn. Injury potential is one reason. That worries me. I'd much rather delay my long term mowing solution and save toward a two machine solution for our landscaping projects and mowing. I can continue cutting the grass with our 48" riding mower for a few more years. A zero-turn looks like a very sound choice, and we could probably afford one by May 2010 - finding a used one at that time would be even better.

 

[DiezNutz]

The B3030 has more than enough HP to run the 72" deck. Flat out in M range up hill and as fast as you want to go in H on the flats.

Good to know. Now, we'll both take off mowing 10" of spring grass and I'll bet you a B26 that your 72" bogs down before my 60" will. Care to wager, friend?

I never had an issue with my 60" NH 914 deck scalping - because the rear casters were towards the middle - There was only ~24" span between the wheels - vs the 5' on the Kubota 72.

The Kub 60" MMM also has the rear guage wheels in the center, several inches apart, with anti-scalps at the left & right edges. It seems to be an ideal setup, I even have a few small embankments I go up & down, and it just will not scalp no matter what.

 

[Sully2]

I finally got to go over a B26 last week at the dealer. What I cant figure out..is why its even MADE? Its a B2630 that comes with the BH; FEL and that hard canopy and nothing more??

Buy the B3030 ( if you need more HP..and thats up to you) add on a Wood BH ( much stronger and less $$ than Kubota's)....install a Woods FEL ( again..less $ than Kubota's and more lifting power) and if ya want..get a cab for the AC.

Kubota in their infinite wisdom......didnt design MANY of their tractors for a cab AND a BH..! ( real smart Kubota)..but the Woods BH fits and works perfectly. ( All that had to be done was make the frame mount a little longer to clear everything...DUHHHHH!! )

 

[DiezNutz]

[1] Thanks for the picture. Have you found that one hole position typically handles most tasks?

Yes. There is not a need to constantly change it.

[2] Do you feel that there are advantages to having a separate seat with the backhoe vs a shared seat?

Advantages? Not particularly... sometimes, if I'm just using the BH & thumb to pick up trees/brush, I'll take the BH seat off so that I can reach the controls from the tractor seat

My two reservations about the B3030HSDC becoming our all-in-one tractor [TLB and MMM] are:
[1] the need to remove and re-attach the backhoe and the FEL every week. I worry about injury when doing repetitive tasks that can lead to this type of disaster. I also lack a perfectly level floor. It would need to be done on the relatively flat dirt or lawn.
[2] the lack of a hydraulic thumb on the Woods BH80-X backhoe.

I'll grant you #1. #2 is fairly insignificant. I equate it to the need for a hydraulic deck lift on a ZTR... it's nice but not necessary or $$-justified.

 

[hazmat]

Good to know. Now, we'll both take off mowing 10" of spring grass and I'll bet you a B26 that your 72" bogs down before my 60" will. Care to wager, friend? ....

Well - Yeah of course it will.

More importantly, your wife will let the lawn get to 10"??? Have her talk to my wife.

 

[hazmat]

I finally got to go over a B26 last week at the dealer. What I cant figure out..is why its even MADE? Its a B2630 that comes with the BH; FEL and that hard canopy and nothing more??

Buy the B3030 ( if you need more HP..and thats up to you) add on a Wood BH ( much stronger and less $$ than Kubota's)....install a Woods FEL ( again..less $ than Kubota's and more lifting power) and if ya want..get a cab for the AC.

Kubota in their infinite wisdom......didnt design MANY of their tractors for a cab AND a BH..! ( real smart Kubota)..but the Woods BH fits and works perfectly. ( All that had to be done was make the frame mount a little longer to clear everything...DUHHHHH!! )

The B26 has a stronger FEL - self leveling too IIRC and a larger hydraulic pump to power the FEL & backhoe. THe B26 hoe is slightly larger & more powerful than the Woods BH80-X. It is really designed to shine as a small TLB. For other work, it is a comprimise as the FEL doesn't come off.

Compact TLBs are really too small to have a cab - you wouldn't have enough room to swing the seat around & still be in the cab. When I did my pool demo last fall, we rented a 15,000# Volvo Hoe - it was sure nice to sit in the air conditioned cab while running the hoe.

 

[DiezNutz]

It might be better to sacrafice something less valuable for the mowing duties, and forfeit the enjoyment of an A/C cab. Ouch, that thought hurts ... :-\

Oh c'mon, ya big Sissy. Waaah. You live in New Hampshire!! Like it's that friggin hot up there? Come south of the Mason-Dixon once when it's 98F and 95% humidity. (j/k) Besides cost - and the fact that I'm a manly-man who can avail himself of plentiful sweat pores and excess body fat against the hot and cold elements (respectively) - a cab just wouldn't work for me... I have enough fun keeping the dang ROPS out of the branches, folded even.

Like you, I just do not want to go through the task of disconnecting and reconnecting tractor implements each time I am faced with cutting the lawn... save toward a two machine solution for our landscaping projects and mowing. I can continue cutting the grass with our 48" riding mower for a few more years. A zero-turn looks like a very sound choice...

Well I have to admit, these are the same reasons that pushed me to buy a ZTR this month. In fact, I was going to suggest to you that when that 48" rider craps out, you get yourself a nice ZTR - none of that Homey Depot or Blowes junk either, go light commercial at least. The thinking was that most of the time, the wife and I can tag-team the mowing chores - her on the ZTR for the lawn, me on the B3030 & 60" for the pasture. For those times when I've got the tractor tied up as a TLB, the ZTR can mow it all. Another benefit: with the hours both machines will actually see vs. the useful life they're designed for, they'll probably outlast me.

In the interest of marital harmony, I have one machine that does it all. If you have deep pockets and/or an understanding spouse, the easiest (aside from storage issues) solution is a dedicated mowing machine.

If I may offer you, Sir, the scheme that worked so well for me: the ZTR is hers. Involve her in all aspects of the research/demo/selection process. To seal the deal, I even bought her a custom laser-cut rear bumper for it with her name on it: "SWEETIE"