B2650 stopped and won’t start

   / B2650 stopped and won’t start #41  
Oh, OK, so 911 is an additive. Did you really mean you achieved 50% 911 in the fluid? That is just curiosity but if I heard right, then 50% seems awfully high. Maybe too much ? Being unfamiliar with it is that what the manfr recommends? Great to know such a product exists for that specific problem.
I've no idea what you guys on your side of the pond have, but here diesel at the pump comes with an additive to prevent gelling by frost and I never add any additive. Years ago, truck drivers used to add parraffin [kerosine], but then you guys might get a lot colder than us.
 
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start #42  
This sure does seem like a strange one.

From the Messik's Website I downloaded a PDF of the fuel system. The B2650 comes with a cab and without and their fuel system seems the same. Attached is the PDF for a B2650 without a cab. You just might want to confirm everything is routed correctly if you had any of the hoses off.
 

Attachments

  • ku-90284-229497-457202.pdf
    256.6 KB · Views: 120
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start #43  
Some have a electric shutoff that stops the fuel to stop the engine. Could be bad and not letting fuel through. What year is it? This is why I like the older tractors without all the computerized junk.
 
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start #44  
Some have a electric shutoff that stops the fuel to stop the engine. Could be bad and not letting fuel through. What year is it? This is why I like the older tractors without all the computerized junk.
Here is a link to the Messicks site, I know for some tractors they a look up based upon serial number, this one didn't seem to offer that option:

It may be worth searching on your model and fuel solenoid?

I hope you can find your issue.

 
  • Good Post
Reactions: JWR
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start #45  
I've no idea what you guys on your side of the pond have, but here diesel at the pump comes with an additive to prevent gelling by frost and I never add any additive. Years ago, truck drivers used to add parraffin [kerosine], but then you guys might get a lot colder than us.
Over here (USA) many northern states and regions "winterize" diesel fuel that we purchase at the pumps just like you. The problem is that I am never SURE which ones are and are not "winterized," especially in places that are on the edges of very cold zones, source of the fuel is not known, etc. Just cannot count on it. In some places kerosene is also called paraffin but not commonly among diesel users in the US. Here #1 fuel oil is kerosene and can accurately be referred to as #1 diesel or as "lamp oil." Using a 50/50 mix of #2 diesel with kerosene is (or was) common practice in our northern states in heavy equipment where temps often went below zero F or below around minus 8 C.
 
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start #46  
Some have a electric shutoff that stops the fuel to stop the engine. Could be bad and not letting fuel through. What year is it? This is why I like the older tractors without all the computerized junk.
Anything is possible but it seems awfully unlikely that some complicated mechanism or gizmo failed right in the middle of his working and running the tractor. Seems more likely to me that the fuel gelled (and the sputtering partial restarts are typical of that problem.) I'm thinking various other issues were fallout from taking the fuel plumbing apart.
 
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start
  • Thread Starter
#47  
If it’s gelled fuel, how would I get past this? Warming the whole tractor? I know it’s winterized diesel, I’m in NW Colorado and it’s labeled at the pump.

I’m going to drain the fuel again so I remove any 911. Is it a bad idea to use my mityvac to apply vacuum to the exit hose past the bleed screw?

We still have weeks of low temps. I can rig a tarp surround, but a little concerned about running an electric heater.
 
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start #48  
1,000 mile Dx: I'm pretty sure it gelled up, since it was so cold at the time. A good load of winterized fuel has been added, be sure to add extra PS additive. "911" is an emergency option and calls for a 50/50 mix into the filter jar, and (something? - I don't have a bottle handy) when added to the tank. The other Power System diesel additive (white bottle) is what I use year round. Mixture rate is like 1 oz per 3 gallons of fuel (doubled if REAL cold), and says it will NOT un-gel the fuel - only keep it FROM gelling.

Mity-vac won't help. Heated tent MIGHT.

Is there ice on/in the fuel filter, still?

After it died from no fuel, it now also has air in the system, which needs to get bled out. Keep toying with that bleeder valve - it seems to be responding to that (put the hose back on). IMHO
 
Last edited:
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start #49  
If it’s gelled fuel, how would I get past this? Warming the whole tractor? I know it’s winterized diesel, I’m in NW Colorado and it’s labeled at the pump.

I’m going to drain the fuel again so I remove any 911. Is it a bad idea to use my mityvac to apply vacuum to the exit hose past the bleed screw?

We still have weeks of low temps. I can rig a tarp surround, but a little concerned about running an electric heater.
I sure understand what you are saying ! My thoughts in post #46 are that while you were working in the snow that day when it quit on you that the fuel probably gelled at that point. The symptoms match what I have had when fuel gelled on me twice in the past. If you were running winterized fuel at that point (and it must be from being labeled so at the pump) then I must be wrong and it must be something else. You have the experience in your NW CO environs with that and you probably have reason to trust the winterized label. Down here in "marginal" parts of the country where it very rarely gets cold enough to gel diesel fuel the winterization label cannot be trusted and is often a verbal claim by the gas station with no labels.

The gel effect probably varies quite a bit with how cold the outside air temp (OAT) was/is. Do you know how cold it was when the tractor quit on you? Would have had to be below 15 deg F for gel. My 2 data points where the diesel chugged sputtered & quit on me (and would then restart only for a few seconds) were in one case crossing a mountain ridge (in WV) where the OAT went from about 20 deg down to ~ 11 degrees. The other was an overnight case in northern VT where it went to 10 below zero, I had an engine heater in place and it started right up with ease next morn but then chugged sputtered & quit about 1/4 mile down the road and 10 minutes later. These were both in a VW 4 cyl diesel. The WV fuel was probably NOT winterized and the VT fuel certainly should have been.

Back closer to your situation, I have been struggling to think what I would do. If you are confident that the fuel winterization in your area is adequate (not just marked but adequate) then I'm barking up the wrong tree and it must not have been gel issues. With the severe cold you have mentioned surely others around you there would have gel issues and if not then the winterization must be adequate. For sure I'd ask around in your neck of the woods -- be it tractors, diesel sedans or heavy equipment. People must know.

When thinking "low temp and gel" like you I could not figure out how I would get past it other than to warm up the whole machine somehow (which was why I asked about using another tractor to tow it into a warm work area.) Then the idea of installing an in-line coolant heater in one of the radiator hoses. Understand being concerned about putting an electric heater under a tarp -- if done that would need careful installation and just might not work anyway. I have no opinions about using the mityvac.

Why would you drain the fuel again if it has 911 in it and was almost certainly winterized anyway?

As I mentioned in post #34 the guy named gstrom99 seemed to be right that we saw enough fuel squirting in your video that it ought to run the engine. His idea of opening the injector lines one at a time on the output side of the injection pump should prove once and for all whether you have fuel being injected or not and also serves to flush anything out of the injection pump if it will move the fluid. Nothing much is more picky about moving fluid than an injection pump so if it moves the fuel that says a lot. I would think also that gstrom99's suggestion -- about bleeding each high pressure injection line -- would vindicate the controls and solenoids and whatever that might be stopping flow. Either works or it don't.

In my already-too-long-comment... one last thing, I'd be careful not to do damage to your starter motor. Rest it when you can because this whole incident is putting some abnormal strain on the starter and related.
 
Last edited:
   / B2650 stopped and won’t start
  • Thread Starter
#50  
I'll change the fuel again because I need to remove the variable. There's more 911 in there than half a filter reservoir. I tried that amount and nothing changed so it was recommended to add more. Probably has a total of 3-4 oz.
I'm sold on the gelling and now to figure out a way to heat it. My truck with the winch is snowed in which is why I need the tractor. Ha!
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2025 K3325 UNUSED Double Garage Steel Barn (A50860)
2025 K3325 UNUSED...
2008 MACK GRANITE HOT OIL (A50854)
2008 MACK GRANITE...
19008 (A48082)
19008 (A48082)
Landoll (A50657)
Landoll (A50657)
2017 Ford Explorer AWD SUV (A48082)
2017 Ford Explorer...
Pallet Fees (A50775)
Pallet Fees (A50775)
 
Top