b2650 almost rolled need front wheel spacers
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CalG
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Same question as post 61.
How are you making these evaluations and comparisons.
A "world of difference" suggests a very great improvement. Is that quantifiable?
ning
Elite Member
You can do some pretty simple math to see what extending the track width does side angles.
For example, if you had a 5' track width and your CoM was 2.5' up off the ground, you can draw a right triangle from the tire to the center of the track and then up to the CoM, and you'll find that's a 45° angle from the tire to the CoM.
To keep the numbers whole, let's say you extend the track by an entire foot so you've got a 6' track width. Now the triangle has a 3' base, and still has a 2.5' height, so that's now a 40° angle, so you'd be good for an extra 5° of hill.
Whether or not it's a great improvement is up to the reader; the numbers are going to be different for different tractors, and the effective angle of a hill will vary with every clod of dirt or grass or gopher hole that you drive over.
CalG
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For all practical purposes, math is useless for any stability or traction comparison.
There are WAY TOO MANY VARIABLES!
The CG of all the tractors I have, is just about at floor level under the steering column.
Depending////////;-)
There are WAY TOO MANY VARIABLES!
The CG of all the tractors I have, is just about at floor level under the steering column.
Depending////////;-)
5030
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After 7 pages, I'm glad both my rear wheels and front wheels are adjustable for track and the rears have cast centers so no ballast needed either.
ning
Elite Member
Cal: "How are you making these evaluations and comparisons"
me: Math shows the direct effect
Cal: "MATH HARD OWWWWWWWWWW MY HEAD"
Math clearly shows that widening the track, via spacers or flipping wheels or adding duals, will reduce the effect of the hill's grade.
What you do with that knowledge, like burying your head in the sand, is up to you.
scootr
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ning > "What you do with that knowledge, like burying your head in the sand, is up to you." 
Some good advice in this thread
Some good advice in this thread
CalG
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You know the comments made were not based upon math. I have done the math, it doesn't provide one bit of reassurance that the tractor will not roll.
Oh, And I have spacers on the rear axle of the B2601. And the Hurlimann is a "low" tractor often termed as an orchard tractor, with many wheel settings that would suffice to keep the mathematical evaluators busy for days.
What does a 7% improvement feel like JUST as the tractor rolls over?
CalG
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I like the way you chime in for the question posed to others.
Good going....
Please show me that sloping hillside without dip or rise, no grassy bunches , no rocks, and certainly no wet spots. And always carrying the bucket at exactly 3.5 inches above the soil surface. right?
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scootr
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I think I can answer this one. I feels like you had your chance. You ignored your margin of error and you F'ed up. Here's your sign.
CalG
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Nothing to do but throw a rag in the run away engine inlet, pull the tractor upright again and immediately try to start it.
And then post a question on TBN as to why the tractor engine has developed a hard knock after being tipped.
If you REALLY want to engage the front axle for rollover stability, you can add a front roll stabilizer bar from a small FWD car. Attach the car's original 'body mounts' to the bottom of the tractor frame and the F/A links to the front axle somehow. Otherwise, there is no practical reason for front wheel track width increases. By the time you hit the front axle's maximum roll stop, it's generally too late and the contact from the axle beam's roll angle constraint constraint will contribute a 'jerk' to any roll momentum. Jerk being the rate of change of roll acceleration. That's the Vehicle Dynamics.
Even if the front axle were solidly mounted (no axle roll freedom, the total C.G. height (tractor + loader + belly mower + weight box, plus fuel load, plus driver's bellymore) is the most important single parameter. Actually, partially loaded rear tires help, too, because the liquid ballast level kept low will bring down the C.G. a bit.
Tires are important, too, because sliding sideways is the goal if you are on a hill sideways. Good lateral grip is bad for rollover.
Even if the front axle were solidly mounted (no axle roll freedom, the total C.G. height (tractor + loader + belly mower + weight box, plus fuel load, plus driver's bellymore) is the most important single parameter. Actually, partially loaded rear tires help, too, because the liquid ballast level kept low will bring down the C.G. a bit.
Tires are important, too, because sliding sideways is the goal if you are on a hill sideways. Good lateral grip is bad for rollover.
ning
Elite Member
Someone seems triggered I guess so. Going straight ahead, the bar is not in-action, In turns on all surfaces, the outer tire will give up grip (that's good for rollover) and you'll need a bit more steer angle to keep on a turn radius. In turning and tilting in a plowing situation, I can see a loss.
But if you are upside down or on your side, you have zero traction.
I'd propose a coupler or detachable link on one of the bar's axle mounts to let you disengage it when you feel it's safe to do so. Somebody could probably even come up with a dashboard switch labeled "Tilt Reduction" that engages a magnetic coupler. Equipped with an electric pendulum, maybe come on automatically.
Smokeydog
Elite Member
60years of operating tractors and trucks in Tennessee hills you learn quick what works and what doesn’t. Widening the rears and proper ballast helps. Operator is the biggest variable. What one can do safely can kill another. No chart or pencil whipping math can cover all the dynamics to keep you safe. Can’t always predict the winner of a horse race. Can feel the stability differences. It’s good to be scared. Scared keeps you safe. While FEL are very useful they are probably the most hazardous attachment.
