B26 or L39 PHD

[The Gardener]

Hydraulic PHD ... the B26 offers a hydraulic thumb. The L39 can be outfitted with an after market hydraulic thumb as well.

[1] With the hydraulic thumb in place on either of these backhoes, does that mean that a hydraulic PHD would use the same hose connectors by removing and replacing the QA bucket with the PHD?

[2] If so, what lever(s) would operate this PHD to command forward and reverse?

With lots of fencing on our wish list, we would very much like to include a hydraulic PHD in the purchase. A reverse direction on the auger is essential given that the fence posts/holes would run along several hundred yards of woods. Results from recent excavating along segments of our woods line confirm that we have a lot of tree roots running underneath the lawn. Added to that snag potential is a wealth of rocks and boulders.

[3] Is a hydraulic PHD a simple add-on to the backhoe of either the B26 or the L39?

Many Thanks!
The Gardener

 

[witel]

I do not know a whole lot about the B26, so I cannot comment on it.

I have only been researching my needs for a tractor (which I have not purchased yet), and have been narrowing it down to a fully-loaded L39. One of my applications is to attach a hydraulic-thumb and hydraulic-post-hole-digger (HPHD) to the working end of the backhoe-dipperstick ... much like what you have described. Kubota provides a remote valve kit (BTB404 @ ~$1607.00) for backhoe-mounted attachments. It includes a right foot-operated valve, hoses, pipes, and brackets. I have been lead to believe, by the dealers, that you can use the BTB404 for controlling a hydraulic-thumb or a HPHD mounted on the end of the dipperstick. That said, it appears as though the BTB404 was specifically designed for a hydraulic-demolition-hammer (KXB400F) for construction. Not knowing what the hydraulic requirements are a demolition-hammer (if reverse is necessary), I am concerned about the valve for the BTB404, and if it will go in reverse.

Does anyone have the BTB404 kit, and can provide further details?

 

[The Gardener]

Thank you for this information.

It should be interesting to see how this might apply to the B26 given that it is designed to accept a hydraulic thumb as a purchase option. I would think [am hopeful] that the same open/close control for the hydraulic thumb would be used to control forward/reverse for a HPHD.

I have not yet discussed the B26 with a dealer since my purchase date is not until May 2008. I do want to find out if the hydraulic thumb is foot controlled or button controlled on a joy stick.

From all accounts, you will love the L39.

I have until next May to finally decide between our three TLB choices: the BX24, the B26, or the L39. Weight is a factor, cost may be the deciding factor, FEL lift and carrying capacity are important with ground clearance being yet another concern. All three tractors offer distinct advantages for use on our property, but I am leaning heavily toward the B26 as the best fit.

 

[witel]

You are right. I'll bet the B26 thumb hydraulics will support it.

Take a look at the hydraulic-flow capacity for the B26. It is significantly less than that of the L39. That means less digging power. That is one of the reasons that I'm going with the L39 and not the B26. Another is FEL lifting capacity. The L39 a ton + 10% which is a good engineering design, which is a good thing since most pallets are limited to a ton in weight. The B26 won't cut it there for me. It is, however, a sweet machine.

It looks like my purchase will be delayed a bit to the fall. I just bought 35+ acres, built a home on it, just moved into it, about to start a detached garage, and running out of dough. The purchase will have to be before winter; otherwise, I won't be able to get to the house when snow-fall strikes ... especially, if it's anything like what hit the northern Colorado area this past winter. The boss knows this, so it's penciled in on the schedule.

 

[MarkV]

You two are sure going to have nice tractors when you are done. I think Witel is going to have the first 50k L39 on the forum after he adds all that stuff.

MarkV

 

[_RaT_]

You two are sure going to have nice tractors when you are done. I think Witel is going to have the first 50k L39 on the forum after he adds all that stuff.

MarkV

You've got a pretty snazzy setup yourself Mark.

 

[Vaulter98c]

"you two are sure going to have nice tractors when you are done. I think Witel is going to have the first 50k L39 on the forum after he adds all that stuff."

UG!

Im glad Ive never ran into numbers that big on my pricing journey.

If weight is a crucial factor, along with capacity and clearance, I think the B26 might be calling your name. The L39 is strong, but you have to carry around a tona and a half more of "strength" whenever you move that baby. I think the BX24 is out of question here. Clearance on the 24 is like half that of the 26/39, and the Loader capacities are less than half the 26 ,pump output is near half the 26, 3PH is nearly a third the 26, and I think it is more pricey than powerful, for these applications. It has its place, but not on your property I think.

Don't let me change your mind, but don't think the B26 is "weak" by any stretch of the word. The L39 is a great unit too, as with the B26, and Im sure that both will serve your needs. Im just not recommending the BX24, that would be weak compared to these 2 units. However, if you read around, you will see people do great things with their BX24, imagine what you could do with 2x or 4x thatunit's power.

Also, I havent seen a BH mounted PHD on the Kubota page, could you point me that way? I have seen the 3PH version, but not BH.

 

[witel]

I think Witel is going to have the first 50k L39 on the forum after he adds all that stuff.

The fully-loaded L39 (see my wish-list below) has been quoted at ~$40k including the 4-n-1 bucket and hydraulic thumb mount welded on and thumb itself, wheel-weights instead of filled-tires ... and no other implements. I have been reading that it is cheaper to purchase with the options, and is more expensive to add them later. I know I'll need them, so I'm adding them upfront. I will really only need a rear-blade to start with, and can get all the other implements over time.

Also, I havent seen a BH mounted PHD on the Kubota page, could you point me that way? I have seen the 3PH version, but not BH.

There are definitely more 3PH PTO-driven PHD than hydraulic PHD. Most (and I use that term loosely), have an option for mounting on the backhoe coupler. I've been looking at Danuser, which seems a bit more expensive, but are supposed to be really good. I'm willing to get feedback on other opinions regarding that issue. Anyway, here is a spec-sheet that illustrates what I'm looking at. You'll note at the bottom of the page the Backhoe-Mount is available as well.

 

[Vaulter98c]

yes, adding on after you have the unit will be more expensive.

Wish I could see pics of the PHD on a Kubota Hoe, it would rise up my list of things to buy then... After a boxscrapper and maybe a tiller, and a homemade subsoiler and... ...

 

[The Gardener]

Wish I could see pics of the PHD on a Kubota Hoe...

I think you are correct that such pictures are not available. I have seen images of the hydraulic PHD used on the Kubota mini excavator. They were included in a color brochure but, oddly enough, not on their website. It would seem to me that this same PHD attachment could be used on a TLB backhoe.

All guesses at this time since I will wait until May 2008 to approach a sales person regarding a TLB purchase. The two features I want and will use extensively are a hydraulic thumb and a hydraulic PHD. If the B26 can accomodate the PHD, it'll have everything we desire for now and certainly into the future.

 

[gotcha]

Wish I could see pics of the PHD on a Kubota Hoe...

I think you are correct that such pictures are not available. I have seen images of the hydraulic PHD used on the Kubota mini excavator. They were included in a color brochure but, oddly enough, not on their website. It would seem to me that this same PHD attachment could be used on a TLB backhoe.

All guesses at this time since I will wait until May 2008 to approach a sales person regarding a TLB purchase. The two features I want and will use extensively are a hydraulic thumb and a hydraulic PHD. If the B26 can accommodate the PHD, it'll have everything we desire for now and certainly into the future.

When we purchased our B26 it was said that the PHD can be attached to the hoe the same as the excavators and yes the foot pedal does the operating of the thumb and would operate the PHD. Our thumb was back ordered as is everyone else's I believe. It is to be dropped shipped any day now in fact we should have had ours by now.
The Gotcha Man

 

[bandit67]

You may want to still consider an FEL mounted PHD (the QA type, not the bucket mounted type), as one of those will be much easier to come by. I can forsee pros and cons to both FEL and BH mounted PHD's - getting the FEL mounted PHD to each hole would be easier when moving the machine as you are sitting in the same position to move to each hole and to get the loader in position. The BH mounted PHD would probably be easier to get set directly over the spot you want to drill, but you've got to move the machine, then (most likely) get off and hop into the backhoe seat to drill the hole - that procedure may get old after a while.

At least with the B26, you could rig up something to hand operate the hydro pedal so you can stay in the BH seat while moving the machine into position. You'd probably be on your knees in the seat leaning over to reach the pedal and the steering wheel. I've done that with a BX22, but between the one hand on the hydro pedal and the other on the steering wheel, after a while, you may be ready to see the chiropractor.

It depends on how perfectly straight you need the holes to be, as the BH mounted PHD should allow for you to line everything up perfectly, but it will be more time consuming. I personally would go for the FEL mounted PHD, after using PHD's on a stand-on skid steer unit, a regular big skid steer, and a rear 3pt unit. I have not ever used a BH mounted unit, but for the perimeter fencing posts that I will need to install, an FEL mounted PHD would do the job just fine, and be faster and easier on me after a day of drilling holes.

 

[_RaT_]

You may want to still consider an FEL mounted PHD (the QA type, not the bucket mounted type), as one of those will be much easier to come by. I can forsee pros and cons to both FEL and BH mounted PHD's - getting the FEL mounted PHD to each hole would be easier when moving the machine as you are sitting in the same position to move to each hole and to get the loader in position. The BH mounted PHD would probably be easier to get set directly over the spot you want to drill, but you've got to move the machine, then (most likely) get off and hop into the backhoe seat to drill the hole - that procedure may get old after a while.

At least with the B26, you could rig up something to hand operate the hydro pedal so you can stay in the BH seat while moving the machine into position. You'd probably be on your knees in the seat leaning over to reach the pedal and the steering wheel. I've done that with a BX22, but between the one hand on the hydro pedal and the other on the steering wheel, after a while, you may be ready to see the chiropractor.

It depends on how perfectly straight you need the holes to be, as the BH mounted PHD should allow for you to line everything up perfectly, but it will be more time consuming. I personally would go for the FEL mounted PHD, after using PHD's on a stand-on skid steer unit, a regular big skid steer, and a rear 3pt unit. I have not ever used a BH mounted unit, but for the perimeter fencing posts that I will need to install, an FEL mounted PHD would do the job just fine, and be faster and easier on me after a day of drilling holes.

Good points. A hoe mounted motor/auger would be a slow way to drill many holes. One mounted to the loader would be faster, I see them that way around here quite a bit. For auger work, nothing makes positioning/plumbing up the auger both before and during drilling easier then HST. Its a snap.

 

[The Gardener]

FEL mounted presents another nice consideration. I agree that the time savings would be substantial over a long effort.

Of course, the upside to keeping the FEL free of the PHD duty is the potential to mix cement in the FEL which we did regularly with our last tractor. It sure beats a wheel barrel. It would allow us to complete each post [positioned, cemented, plumbed, and supported] before we moved onto the next.

If the B26 backhoe had its own seat [not a shared seat], that would allow two people to operate in tandem which would make for a very nice solution. I'll definitely look at both hydraulic PHD options: backhoe and FEL.

I am still leaning toward the backhoe approach because we also envision using the hydraulic PHD to create holes for planting trees, shrubs, etc. The FEL can then carry the necessary mix of soil enhancements to refill the hole before planting.

More to think about which is why tractors [the TLB especially] are so amazing. They offer many answers to landscaping jobs.

 

[bandit67]

I've only ever used a backhoe to dig holes for trees and shrubs, and I can't say that even with owning a PHD, I'd ever use one to do the holes - you'd have to do a lot more manual digging and dirt removal by hand. I don't know about you, but I get plenty of excercise getting the trees and shrubs out of the FEL bucket, into the hole, positioned just right, twisted around, etc.

I dig the hole with the hoe, and transport the tree or shrub and whatever planting mix in the FEL. That way works out well because I have the loader bucket available to mix up the ammendments with the stuff I dig out of the hole, and out here, it's rare to actually dig soil out of the hole. Because of our clay and nutrient sparse dirt, I often times over dig the hole by about 3 times, to add more ammendment and create a larger perimeter of softer soil for the roots to spread out to, so that's where a backhoe becomes much more efficient than using a PHD.

Now, being up in the northeast, you may not have to dig as much and add as much ammendment, especially if you are in the woods. Folks out here think I'm crazy when I tell them how good freshly dug, dark soil smells because the dirt out here is just that - dirt. Anyone want to mail me a ziploc full of fresh soil from the New England woods? Boy, I miss that smell.

Hey Gotcha, how 'bout some more action shots of that new machine?

 

[witel]

I was thinking more along the lines of setting the tractor between two posts, swing the boom right, drill, swing the boom left, and drill. Or, depending on the fence-rail length and the reach of the BH, planting the tractor at one post and drilling three holes from one spot.

For me, accuracy is important, and I'll take my time to get it right.

 

[_RaT_]

Usually the PHD is not on the bucket but attached to one side of the boom or the other. You continue to use the bucket but obviously without the auger/motor attached.


Using the PHD on the hoe would probably be a stretch (literally) to do 3 holes, maybe but two would be more like it.

 

[The Gardener]

I often times over dig the hole by about 3 times, to add more ammendment and create a larger perimeter of softer soil for the roots to spread out to

We often do the same as well. We'll commit a lot of added ingredients to the hole to increase our chances of a long term success. Our Zone 4 climate is a bear. We lose a few things every spring, and they can be trees or bushes that had survived several winters before succumbing to whatever.

 

[_RaT_]

I often times over dig the hole by about 3 times, to add more ammendment and create a larger perimeter of softer soil for the roots to spread out to

We often do the same as well. We'll commit a lot of added ingredients to the hole to increase our chances of a long term success. Our Zone 4 climate is a bear. We lose a few things every spring, and they can be trees or bushes that had survived several winters before succumbing to whatever.

Just saw one of these today. Going through some fairly tough stuff. Quite large auger.

Toro Dingo Compact Utility Loader Attachments – Mini Backhoe – Commercial Trencher – Earth Augers

 

[witel]

Some backhoe-mounted hydraulic post-hole-diggers (with augers) from Belltec Industries, Inc.: