AZ ranch

[mjncad]

Ranger Rick beat me to the punch with the suggestion of a mobile batch truck.

I used one for a small job and it was worth it to me. Whether they have them big enough to minimize cold joint possibilities is unknown to me.

 

[R_Walter]

I don't think it will waste any lumber as none of the inside of the 4 walls will have any lumber. Only interior walls, and they will be based on standard sizes, more or less. As far as the shell, nothing gives you more square feet than a square. Perimeter; 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 = 140 ft ; 35 X 35 = 1,225 sq feet
Same perimeter 30 + 30 + 40 + 40 = 140 ft; but 30 X 40 = 1,200 sq feet
but the biggest reason is that I only need one pile of logs; about 60 logs at 40 feet; instead of 30 logs at 35 feet and 30 logs at 45 feet. So I have more options on the next log each time.
And the inside dimensions will be somewhat up-in-the-air depending on the diameter of the logs. I can plan on 16 inch, but if I get 22 inch logs delivered, then my overall internal dimensions just shrank by 6 inches. I know that would drive a lot of stick builders nuts, but I'm actually looking forward to it.

So you did decide to use even dimensions (32' x 32' per your post no. 170) in spite of your above justification!

When I read that post of yours talking about how a 35' x 35' was what you were planning, I just sat here scratching my head and trying to figure out your reasoning. And then you rebutted my suggestion to go dimensional, i.e. even dimensions (my post no. 118) per the above and I was wondering what you knew that everyone else didn't. Well, a 32' x 32' two-story should work out nicely.

 

[BoFuller]

I down-sized from the 35 X 35 because it is way more expensive to get logs that long. I was gong to go with the plans I had for 30 X 30 but decided to "stretch" it for two reasons. First was so that I would have at least a 30 X 30 inside because my logs are in fact 20-21 inches in diameter. The second reason is so that the roof comes out even without wasting materials. A 32 X 32 home has a roof with 48 X 24 on each half. Easily divisible by 3, 4, 6, or 8. The interior walls are still up in the air, depending on how big my Ridge Pole Support Logs are as well as my girder logs. So I'm taking dimensional lumber into account for the roof, but that's all. I won't know the length of the interior walls until I build them.

 

[BoFuller]

Thursday I picked up my plans from the county and am I bummed.
There's not a square inch on the 6 or 7 pages that is not marked up with their red ink. I thought I had more than enough detail, but they want WAY more. Half the stuff they are asking for is none of their business in my mind, but what choice do you have? These were put together and stamped by an engineer, but they still want to see more, more, MORE.
Is this somewhat typical or did I just get someone bored and set on ruining my day?
Insulation value of my stem wall? Come on. I was going to make my own front door, but I need to list the manufacturer, the R value of the door, the R value of the door seal. :confused2:

 

[bindian]

Thursday I picked up my plans from the county and am I bummed.
There's not a square inch on the 6 or 7 pages that is not marked up with their red ink. I thought I had more than enough detail, but they want WAY more. Half the stuff they are asking for is none of their business in my mind, but what choice do you have? These were put together and stamped by an engineer, but they still want to see more, more, MORE.
Is this somewhat typical or did I just get someone bored and set on ruining my day?
Insulation value of my stem wall? Come on. I was going to make my own front door, but I need to list the manufacturer, the R value of the door, the R value of the door seal. :confused2:

Bo,
That is so messed up. R value of the door seal?
hugs, Brandi

 

[MotorSeven]

Bo, it's sad, but it is reality. On my thread we just went through a page or so of Code discussion.....more of a rant on my part Anyway, a big part of my moving here was because we had NO CODES. We now have a "building code", but it is very innocuous for now, but I fear it is the beginning of the end.

Sorry, this does not help you, but it should not be anyone's business what structure I choose to build and live in....period. I am truly sorry that our rights are so trampled these days and we have to tippy toe around county inspectors for fear of pissing them off, which in turn they can make our life more miserable.

 

[mjncad]

You can thank California for pioneering all this intrusion into a our private lives.

 

[handirifle]

Well I will be the first to blame this state, for a LOT of things, but building codes have been around for a LONG time, and California wasn't the first.

Here's a little quote to inform those who wonder about the truth.

"The first building codes in the United States where established in 1625 by addressing fire safety and specified materials for roof coverings. In 1630, Boston outlawed chimneys made of wood and thatch roof coverings."


Here's another excerpt from the same article,
"History tells us that both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson encouraged the development of building regulations in order to help provide minimum standards that would ensure health and safety for building occupants. If there is one consistent building regulation throughout our country’s history of building regulations it’s the one dealing with our fear of fire. With respect to the early requirements for exterior and party walls of brick and stone it’s also interesting to note that early changes incorporated wood-frame structures be not more than 12 feet high and not over 328 square feet in area. However, as our population grew this code was soon abandoned and much larger wooden structures where build and the loss of human life and property by fire grew with it."

I am sure the cities and states across the country have played leap frog with them ever since. California probably has some of the tightest codes going, but houses here built later stand up to earthquakes FAR better than older homes.

I just finished a new house here in 2010, and there are a LOT of hoops to jump through, including there being only 5 approved wood burning fireplaces for the county I live in. As real PITA but let me tell ya. I spent the last two days making trips to beach (30 min drive) and coming home, to sit in sunny 70-80 deg weather.

There are many things about this state I do not like, many things I do like, and like I said, I will be the first to hold them to the fire for a lot of things, but this isn't one of them.

Building codes were in effect in this country long before CA was a state.

While I feel for the OP (I did the plans for my own 24 x 30 workshop) and I understand his frustrations, the codes are not always to tell us how we will live in OUR homes, but to protect someone that may buy the home after we leave it.

Some on this board may not, but trust me, there are a lot of people that when the state allows them to build a home in a certain place, and to a certain standard, then disaster strikes (ie New Orleans) they want to blame the state or feds for it. For them it's called CYA. I cannot blame them a lot for that.

 

[BoFuller]

Handrifle, I agree with the basis of your argument. They do want to cover their XXX and there is merit in the next owner having some assurance that the place won't fall down, but there is also a lot of overkill, minute detail on little things that don't really mean anything, except someone's power trip. :thumbsup:

And though codes were started before CA existed, CA has taken them to extreme. I know, I lived there 20 years and did a room addition to my house. They made me put a concrete footer in that would hold a skyscraper!

 

[tnmike]

.........OFF TOPIC>>>>>


I talked to a friend of mine who is a builder in rural Mitchell County NC a week or so ago. He used to build a lot of really upscale houses a lot of which were for summer residents. He said there were two (2) building permits issued in the county during the past twelve months. I have been wondering what the inspectors have been doing with their time?

A lot of the inspectors I ever dealt with were former tradesmen that couldn't make it in the real world. Many had no idea what they were talking about and were basically on a power trip as stated above.

Any county inspection department that red lines a set of plans on a residence which has been stamped by a professional engineer is way out of control. Most of them have no one in any professional capacity on staff and are not qualified to do so. It would be interesting to see what the state board of registration for PE's had to say about that.

 

[BoFuller]

Yeah, I was under the impression that an engineer's stamp meant something. Apparently not. :confused2:

 

[crash325]

Yeah, I was under the impression that an engineer's stamp meant something. Apparently not. :confused2:

Building codes were meant to insure that a home was built safely and stay together. AZ use to be one of the best.

Now it has nothing to do with safety, just a way to make money and keep some jerks employed.

The way things are going soon we will need a permit to pee.

 

[Ken]

Mr. Fuller Don't give up. I remember when working Seligman at the airport a 25 watt light was needed to light the front of a airplane in the hanger so those walking in didn't hit the prop. a 10 foot stick of conduct attached to wall out of metal switch box 90 deg. bend so 24 inches away from wall and base attached.
Wired by Master Electrician of many years. The city inspector wasn't happy . Needed 2 little hicky bends to get conduit aligned with hole in box. And charged for both trips to inspect.

But it was O'k to let the garbage truck to drive across the runway dropping sacks of trash or tires on the landing area.
Building the compressor sta. at Flagstaff The special piping bends and flange bolt to compressor was pre welded in El Paso shipped by train to the compressor sta. The union welders refused to work until removed and welds ground out reloaded on train and dumped at the sta. Then with there modified cracker box welders tried to weld the 15/16X36 inch pipe. couldn't get enough heat to get a starter bead.
months later agreed it above there experance so again returned junked and new bends and flanges were welded and sent to Flagstaff. installed with out comment.
New equipment arrived another location and the company man opened the door to get the paper work out to show location to be installed. Union walked off the job. This man could of injured a worker by opening the door.

Maybe return to engineer and thru his connections this could be satisfied.
Used stack of green in envolope at botton of resubmitted papers.
Arizona is a union work State.

 

[Ken]

Building codes were meant to insure that a home was built safely and stay together. AZ use to be one of the best.

Now it has nothing to do with safety, just a way to make money and keep some jerks employed.

The way things are going soon we will need a permit to pee.

Jim it is now in designed area isn't it.
ken

 

[crash325]

Jim it is now in designed area isn't it.
ken

Flood Control Zone. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

AZ is now a right to work state. But unions have a lot of muscle.

 

[handirifle]

Handrifle, I agree with the basis of your argument. They do want to cover their XXX and there is merit in the next owner having some assurance that the place won't fall down, but there is also a lot of overkill, minute detail on little things that don't really mean anything, except someone's power trip. :thumbsup:

And though codes were started before CA existed, CA has taken them to extreme. I know, I lived there 20 years and did a room addition to my house. They made me put a concrete footer in that would hold a skyscraper!

No argument there, but I was merely addressing the fact that it's not the FAULT of CA that other states adopt moronic codes. They are quite adept at doing moronic things all on their own.

In fact, when I built by workshop, a few months after my house finaled, I was able to refer to soils tests done for my house, to support my NOT having to over-excavate the ground for my workshop. As I mentioned earlier, I hand drew the plans myself, on 8 1/2 x 14" art paper, the plans were NOT engineered or looked at by engineers, with the exception, that the trusses, did require an engineer cert with the associated paperwork. That was no problem as the truss company I bought them from provided all that free.

My workshop is 24 x 30 x 10 with 6-12 pitch (cause it matches my house, not for snow load ) with 2x6 wall studs and hardi board siding. I ran all electrical myself. Everything was permitted and checked according to code. The county folks were very easy to work with. If I didn't understand something they were very helpful in explaining it to me. Not bad for a state with such a bad rep.

By the way, based on personal experience, for the OP, just because an engineer stamps something, does NOT mean it is right or if it is according to the local codes. If it were me, and the engineer is supposed to be up on the codes in YOUR area, I'd take the plans back to him and say it needs to be done correctly, and at his cost.

It's THEIR responsibility to know the codes for areas they draw plans for.

 

[mjncad]

Well I will be the first to blame this state, for a LOT of things, but building codes have been around for a LONG time, and California wasn't the first.

I am sure the cities and states across the country have played leap frog with them ever since. California probably has some of the tightest codes going, but houses here built later stand up to earthquakes FAR better than older homes.

There are many things about this state I do not like, many things I do like, and like I said, I will be the first to hold them to the fire for a lot of things, but this isn't one of them.

CA wasn't the first state to adopt building codes; but they sure have become the pioneering state when it comes to over regulating anything and everything.

As an example of opposite extremes, a guy named Saltman (IIRC) on TBN spent close to $20k in various permitting fees for his 1,800 square foot home in the desert way east of Sandy Eggo. While a guy in Oklahoma named Sam Walton on TBN built an earth sheltered concrete house, and the only permit he needed was for his septic system.

In both cases, the permitting system is flawed as one nitpicks everything while another authority system is essentially non-existent. Fortunately Sam built a quality house with attention to detail.

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/04/22/us/20120423hoffman.html

This is what you get when a third world lifestyle collides with an over-zealous regulatory bureaucracy.

Watching these two butt heads is probably almost as much fun as watching a matter-antimatter explosion, or a supernova, or two planets colliding.

Somewhere there has to be a happy medium of common sense; but I don't expect it from either party.

Handrifle, I agree with the basis of your argument. They do want to cover their XXX and there is merit in the next owner having some assurance that the place won't fall down, but there is also a lot of overkill, minute detail on little things that don't really mean anything, except someone's power trip. :thumbsup:

My opinion of building inspectors is that there are good ones and bad ones out there like anything; but I suspect most inspectors are over worked, under paid, and under staffed, which results in power trips by some of them.

As for plan reviewers...If you've ever worked in a facilities engineering department, it's boring compared to project engineering companies. Doing plan reviews with no creative aspect to the job has got to make facilities engineering look downright exciting.

.........OFF TOPIC>>>>>


A lot of the inspectors I ever dealt with were former tradesmen that couldn't make it in the real world. Many had no idea what they were talking about and were basically on a power trip as stated above.

I've had that feeling about building inspectors, and I suspect plan reviewers fall into a similar category in which they couldn't hack it in the real engineering world.

No argument there, but I was merely addressing the fact that it's not the FAULT of CA that other states adopt moronic codes. They are quite adept at doing moronic things all on their own.

By the way, based on personal experience, for the OP, just because an engineer stamps something, does NOT mean it is right or if it is according to the local codes. If it were me, and the engineer is supposed to be up on the codes in YOUR area, I'd take the plans back to him and say it needs to be done correctly, and at his cost.

It's THEIR responsibility to know the codes for areas they draw plans for.

I applaud CA for adopting codes specific to the state's seismic conditions; but if codes are modified for no real reason other than to generate revenue, then I have heartburn with that. Denver modifies the building codes for that reason...to generate revenue.

I agree, I'd ask the engineer who stamped the drawings what's going on if the red ink from the planning department is as bad as the O.P. has said it is.

 

[BoFuller]

So I'm still refining the plans, and winding down my bickering with the county, so I hope I have approved plans soon.

Meanwhile, last weekend we installed a solar system on the trailer so I don't have to use the generator so much when we're up there. I put 3 panels on the roof and then installed a charge controller and an inverter. We just finished it when it was time to pull out and head for home on Monday. So i'm headed back tonight for the weekend again. Partly to check on the system and see how it is doing, as well as for working on a zillion projects.

Last year we were burning the small stuff after taking down some trees, but I notice they have a "No Open Fires" in effect for the whole county. I don't want to be responsible for a fire, so I thought I would check out the possibility of renting a chipper and turning all those branches into mulch instead. It will probably take me a week at least.

Here's a picture of my most recent load of logs. The tele handler comes in real handy for these. The logger estimates they weigh between 2-3,000 lbs each.

 

[MotorSeven]

Thanks for the update...looking forward to your build!

 

[BoFuller]

Here's a shot of 2 of the 3 panels I put on the roof. No more generator!!! :thumbsup: