Automatic VS Manual Transmission

[Johnp33]

I worked for a transport company for a while and they could give you the cost of every truck per ton mile and every part on that truck per ton mile.
We had a group of 6V92's with 740 Alison's, a lot of other trucks with standards, these were the Pick-up and delivery units. The operating costs of the Alison equipped units was quit a bit lower than the manuals and they could get into a difficult spot a lot easier. The trucks with the automatics were in a lot less acidents, the safety officer said it was because the trucks with the automatics did not have the one extra thing to do, and could just watch and drive.
I was there for 3.5 years and I reset one valve body that was never set properly, that was the only time I had the pan off. or any work on them.
I have a duramax and the Alison is great I live in the mountains and very rarely use any brakes, even when towing, I just down shift. If I would have bought the Dodge I would have bought the standard, not their automatic.

 

[tcartwri]

From a fleet owners point of view, the auto can be driven by less qualified drivers, all you have to do to go is step on the loud pedal.

This is plainly evident in the quality of the transport drivers we see today. It really is shocking how poorly some of them drive.

 

[JDgreen227]

You almost never use the clutch in a heavy truck, so they last a lot longer than you would think. A good driver would never need a clutch replaced over the lifetime of the truck.

"Good drivers" were hard to find in our delivery operation, many were temps or short termers who didn't give a bleep about taking care of equipment. We did a lot of in-town, door to door delivery work day long and day after day. (office supplies and paper and stationary items) and many of drivers were too lazy to shift so they would leave the transmission in third gear and ride the clutch on top of that.

 

[tcartwri]

"Good drivers" were hard to find in our delivery operation, many were temps or short termers who didn't give a bleep about taking care of equipment. We did a lot of in-town, door to door delivery work day long and day after day. (office supplies and paper and stationary items) and many of drivers were too lazy to shift so they would leave the transmission in third gear and ride the clutch on top of that.

I hear ya. I wasn't meaning to sound critical of your post btw.

 

[powerpace]

From a fleet owners point of view, the auto can be driven by less qualified drivers, all you have to do to go is step on the loud pedal. As mentioned, there is less lugging and less driveline stress. Autos can be better at starting out on hills and for backing, if the gearing is right.

But a manual is golden once rolling and especially in the mountains. They are more efficient and never hunt for gears. So you can back off the throttle and not have it upshift, then downshift when you step on it a bit. You can hold back and pull, and hold back and pull, without the trans over thinking and over responding.

In my Dodge Cummins with an auto, I installed a mystery switch that manually locks the torque converter. I can hold it in 2nd, 3rd or 4th where it cannot shift. This "simulates" (somewhat) a stick in the mountains and works reasonably well. The tranny becomes more efficient and the engine is directly connected to the ground.

I live in a hilly area of Oregon. Years ago it was common to see a truck pulling a trailer pulled off to the side of the road. Starting over after missing a gear and getting themselves in trouble.

 

[sld]

I love automatics most when on boat ramps. Heavy boat and steep ramp I will use 4 low. But even an easy ramp with a manual is more of a headache.

Years ago, as a teenager my buddy had a brand new Dodge 1/2 ton with the slant six and 3sp manual. I backed the trailer down and he got the boat on and hooked the strap and gave me the thumbs up. Well...I was still in reverse (1st and reverse were side by side), revved it up and let out the clutch. I was able to stop it when the water was even with the top of the tailgate. Put it in first and pulled out. This truck had less than 1k miles on it!

Needless to say I usually put the boat on the trailer after that.

 

[strum456]

Allison automatic transmissions seem to get rave reviews. What sets them apart from the others?

It seems that there are plenty of advantages to automatic transmissions when the driver is incompitent, lazy or careless. I am having a hard time understanding other advantages.

I am planning to swap the engine and trans in my 1977 ford pickup. My first choice would be a cummis with a 6 speed. Automatics are a lot easier to find. Should I comprimize? In all my years of driving and towing, I can not think of a single time that I wished I had an automatic. Well, there was the time I plulled my left LCL skiing, but none other than that. Have autimatics improved so much that manufacturers see no need for manual transmissions any more? Or is the recent shift (pun intended) toward automatics just due to consumer demand rather than technological improvement?

 

[Diamondpilot]

I guess its personal preference. I grew up on the farm, had motor cycles, driven semi's, ect but would not own a manual anything other then my tractor. I don't see the benefits. Yes, I have owned a few but these new 5,6,7,8 speed autos with manual shift modes are the best thing going.

Chris

 

[frischtr]

I owned an automatic car once. I was pissed off every time I drove it. Sold it soon after I got it. Every other vehicle my wife or I have ever owned was/is a stick and I don't plan on changing any time soon. I just prefer a manual.:thumbsup:

 

[Diamondpilot]

I owned an automatic car once. I was pissed off every time I drove it. Sold it soon after I got it. Every other vehicle my wife or I have ever owned was/is a stick and I don't plan on changing any time soon. I just prefer a manual.:thumbsup:

Good luck finding them. Not many are even offered with a manual anymore such as most trucks.

Chris

 

[Marveltone]

Allison automatic transmissions seem to get rave reviews. What sets them apart from the others?

It seems that there are plenty of advantages to automatic transmissions when the driver is incompitent, lazy or careless. I am having a hard time understanding other advantages.

I am planning to swap the engine and trans in my 1977 ford pickup. My first choice would be a cummis with a 6 speed. Automatics are a lot easier to find. Should I comprimize? In all my years of driving and towing, I can not think of a single time that I wished I had an automatic. Well, there was the time I plulled my left LCL skiing, but none other than that. Have autimatics improved so much that manufacturers see no need for manual transmissions any more? Or is the recent shift (pun intended) toward automatics just due to consumer demand rather than technological improvement?

These are questions I have asked over the years. Towing seems to beg for additional questions. Typical conversations have usually gone like so:
"I plan on lots of heavy towing. Should I get a manual or automatic?"
"Get an auto... They multiply torque and help you start better."
"Don't they burn out easier?"
"Only if you plan on working them hard. Towing kills automatics."
"I said I plan on heavy towing."
"Get a transmission cooler."
"My current rig has one. It still runs hot."
"Put in another one... and a fan.... and synthetic fluid."
"Shouldn't I just get a manual? They don't seem to have such overheating issues."
"No. Automatics are heavier duty."
"I thought we just established that they run too hot and can burn out.??"
"Only if you tow with them."
:mur:

Joe

 

[frischtr]

Good luck finding them. Not many are even offered with a manual anymore such as most trucks.

Chris

I'm aware, if necessary I'll swap it... I enjoy fabrication:thumbsup:... The medium duty Eaton-Fullers go smashingly in our HD trucks

 

[strum456]

These are questions I have asked over the years. Towing seems to beg for additional questions. Typical conversations have usually gone like so:
"I plan on lots of heavy towing. Should I get a manual or automatic?"
"Get an auto... They multiply torque and help you start better."
"Don't they burn out easier?"
"Only if you plan on working them hard. Towing kills automatics."
"I said I plan on heavy towing."
"Get a transmission cooler."
"My current rig has one. It still runs hot."
"Put in another one... and a fan.... and synthetic fluid."
"Shouldn't I just get a manual? They don't seem to have such overheating issues."
"No. Automatics are heavier duty."
"I thought we just established that they run too hot and can burn out.??"
"Only if you tow with them."
:mur:

Joe

:laughing:

That is funny right there, I dont care who you are!

 

[farmboy12]

I learned to drive on a clutch. I feel so much more control over what I'm doing. Don't mind automatics every now and then, but ultimately, 95% of the time I would prefer a manual. I am just 16, and I have been driving tractors since 6, dirt bikes since 8, learned in-car manuals at age 9 in a jeep. Got my 85 5 speed s10 when I was 11. It's just what I was raised around and feel comfortable with because I learned that way and it's all personal preference.


Kyle

 

[JDgreen227]

I was driving my dad's '53 Chevy and his 8N around our farm at the age of 12 so I could drive a manual shift at an early age, and when I began riding dirt bikes clutching was second nature to me by then. When I got my first truck driving job I ended up having to teach a number of guys how to drive a stick-shift IHC Loadstar although they were my age...CITY KIDS. :laughing:

What I enjoyed most about shifting was feeling more in control of the vehicle because I chose the gear I wanted, not the one the transmission chose for me.

 

[RoyJackson]

I do prefer a manual...unless I'm stuck in stop-go traffic...
What I really like about a manual transmission is holding the tranny in one gear (3rd is alway a good gear) during inclement weather (snow, icy conditions, etc.). I have never seen an automatic that could be held in one gear...closest I've seen could be shifted down to second...but it could still shift (automatically) between first and second. A down shift or upshift on an icy road can cause problems.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have never seen an automatic that could be held in one gear...closest I've seen could be shifted down to second...but it could still shift (automatically) between first and second. A down shift or upshift on an icy road can cause problems.

Almost all the new stuff built in the last 4 or so years have a manual mode that works great. Even some of the new stuff like the VW Passat have a dual stage manual with no clutch. Its a manual tranny but the computer does the shifting and working the clutch. When I mean manual I do not mean you shift gears in the case of the VW, I mean no torque converter. It still has clutches and such but you no longer do the sifting. Kind of the best of both worlds.

Chris

 

[Raspy]

Allison automatic transmissions seem to get rave reviews. What sets them apart from the others?

The Allison proved itself in medium sized trucks for a long time. Then Chevy put a smaller one behind their Diesel and it was way better than any other auto in a pickup at that time. It was better because it had more gears, a spin on filter and a low first gear. It has proven to be a reliable tranny too. I think they were five speeds at first and then went to six speeds. Unlike Ford and Dodge who simply put their biggest in house trannies behind their diesels, with limited success, Chevy started out with an Allison model that had an excellent name and was strong enough for the job.

Dodge has always been very proud of their Cummins engine, and rightly so. But their trannies weren't up to the task of heavy towing. Chevy decided to play up the tranny issue and advertise Allison. Dodge has the proven engine name and Chevy has the proven tranny name. These days both engines are good and both trannies are good.

Now Dodge has a couple of equally good autos. Their in house 68RFE for the Cummins in a pickup and their Aisin tranny in the Chassis Cab with the Cummins. The Aisin can have a PTO installed for winches.

These new trannies are shifted and controlled by the trucks computer, so you get an appropriate shift in both RPM and how hard it engages. But you start having trouble if you add a lot of power to the engine. The older ones had an internal governor system, were more simple and could be built up for different engines or different torque levels more easily.

At least with Dodge and Chevy, the trannies have finally come of age and are ready for real work behind a modern diesel. Don't know what Ford is doing with their trannies.

 

[schoolsout]

Almost all the new stuff built in the last 4 or so years have a manual mode that works great. Even some of the new stuff like the VW Passat have a dual stage manual with no clutch. Its a manual tranny but the computer does the shifting and working the clutch. When I mean manual I do not mean you shift gears in the case of the VW, I mean no torque converter. It still has clutches and such but you no longer do the sifting. Kind of the best of both worlds.

Chris

I've got the DSG transmission in my Jetta TDI. It is an automated manual. Two sets of clutches and two sets of gears, odd and even. When it gets ready to shift, the other set of clutches/gears are already doing their thing waiting for a more "seamless" shift.

Maintenance is expensive on it. It is a Porsche/Audi design, too. I like it, but as I said, it is fairly expensive to maintain for a transmission.

 

[Diamondpilot]

At least with Dodge and Chevy, the trannies have finally come of age and are ready for real work behind a modern diesel. Don't know what Ford is doing with their trannies.

Most of what you say is true but remember the Dmax is not GM's first rodeo. They had the 5.7L diesel, the 6.2L, and the 6.5L and the trannys behind the later ones were a issue also. The earlier ones not so much of issue because of the lack of power.

As for Ford the Torque Shift is a 7 speed tranny that if you read up on uses 6 gears at anyone time depending on tow/haul mode and temp. Its been seen as the best tranny in the marked for the last 2 years over the Allison 1000 that is found in the GM Dmax trucks. This is not my opinion, this is the opinion of many magazines such as Diesel Power, ect. Granted, it took GM putting in a Isuzu engine and a Allison tranny to get Ford to step up.

Chris