Automatic VS Manual Transmission

[Diamondpilot]

I've got the DSG transmission in my Jetta TDI. It is an automated manual. Two sets of clutches and two sets of gears, odd and even. When it gets ready to shift, the other set of clutches/gears are already doing their thing waiting for a more "seamless" shift.

Maintenance is expensive on it. It is a Porsche/Audi design, too. I like it, but as I said, it is fairly expensive to maintain for a transmission.

Yes, this is one of the trannys I was talking about. My neighbor just got a VW Passat Diesel with one. Like you said, $800 fluid changes ever 40,000 miles or so is steep.

Chris

 

[RobertBrown]

To summarize:

Manual Transmissions:
1. Are more efficient at transferring torque to the ground, which produces more power at the wheels and increases fuel efficiency.
2. Provide better engine braking, due to a direct connection between the engine and transmission
3. Are more reliable and are cheaper to maintain.
4. Do not search for gears on hills.
5. Can be used to start the engine in the case of starting system failure.
6. Keep drivers more in tune to what is going on.


Automatic Transmissions:
1. Multiply torque for starting out
2. Prevent lugging
3. Reduce driveline shock
4. Require less skill to operate


Did I miss anything?

I think you'll find the recomended towing capacity is considerably more with an automatic then it is with a manual, regardless of how the vehicle is equipped.
If your thinking of buying a vehicle for towing, you should probably check those parameters before you purchase.

 

[schoolsout]

I think you'll find the recomended towing capacity is considerably more with an automatic then it is with a manual, regardless of how the vehicle is equipped.
If your thinking of buying a vehicle for towing, you should probably check those parameters before you purchase.

I sell Isuzu commercial trucks and the manual option has reduced horsepower, torque and GCWR. Never really asked why, but you do bring up a good point.

 

[JDgreen227]

I did a lot of towing with our travel trailer from '95 through '02, and read a lot of information about new tow vehicles during that time. Without exception, the tow ratings for pickups and SUV's equipped with automatic transmissions were far higher than for the same truck using a manual shift. It wasn't so much the transmission itself that limited the tow rating, but the clutch itself was the weak spot.

 

[HHR]

The 6 speed auto in the new Ford Fusion sport package allows you to put it in manual mode and start out in 3rd gear if you want. It will hold any gear you put it in.

 

[Raspy]

The new Dodge trucks with manual trannies have lower torque than the ones with the autos because the trans they have been using for some time (G56 german made manual 6 speed) are not rated for the current output from the 6.7 Cummins.

 

[frischtr]

The new Dodge trucks with manual trannies have lower torque than the ones with the autos because the trans they have been using for some time (G56 german made manual 6 speed) are not rated for the current output from the 6.7 Cummins.

There are plenty of guys running the g56 with way higher hp/torque than the factory ratings with nothing but an upgraded clutch. I'm talking 1k hp / 2k torque type numbers. It's a cop-out by Dodge to try to lessen manual sales even more.

 

[Diamondpilot]

There are plenty of guys running the g56 with way higher hp/torque than the factory ratings with nothing but an upgraded clutch. I'm talking 1k hp / 2k torque type numbers. It's a cop-out by Dodge to try to lessen manual sales even more.

I am surprised that Dodge has not canned the manual like Ford did years ago and GM did with a few years back.

Chris

 

[Patches]

I would opt for a manual as there is nothing more aggrevating(to me)than climbing a hill with a trailer that you know you could make without a downshift, "IF" you could only open the throttle just a "little" without the D--- transmission downshifting. I would think it to be more fuel efficient to boot:thumbsup:

 

[firedog]

I would like to have a technical conversation about modern automatic transmissions and why more and more heavy duty trucks are only available with automatics.

I know, there are lots of people who do not know how to drive a manual, or just dont feel like shifting gears becasue it interferes with their cell phone use, smoking, eating, or whatever else they do while driving. Manufactures offer what people want.

My question is: What technical advantage do automatic transmissions offer for heavy towing?

We just upgraded our KW's last year. The new ones have the Eaton ultrashift 12 speed auto, which is quite a change from the 8 speed manual I was used to. I'll admit it's a lot nicer in heavy traffic, but I was a little ansy the first time I pulled thru the Rockies. The autos have a variable exhaust brake instead of an engine brake (aka jake).
I talked to a guy driving an auto Volvo some years ago, he stated the demand for automatics came as a result of the retiring husband & wife teams the were hitting the OTR industry.(?)

Anyway, we got what we got.
pros: easy in traffic

cons: suffers a bit on fuel mileage

IMHO: I'd rather have a manual (16 speed road ranger to be exact) especially in the hills.

Oh yeah, the newer ultrashift plus has an anti rollback setup for starting out on inclines, so you don't have to pull down on the trailer brakes. :thumbsup:

 

[frischtr]

I am surprised that Dodge has not canned the manual like Ford did years ago and GM did with a few years back.

Chris

Ford only quit with the manual in 2011, GM in '07... Needless to say, there were/are a lot of unhappy people on the enthusiast forums. Obviously the autos are far more popular, but there are still plenty of guys that want manuals.

 

[jeffsw6]

"Good drivers" were hard to find in our delivery operation, many were temps or short termers who didn't give a bleep about taking care of equipment.

I think this is a pay issue, plain and simple. If a company can pay for good, hard-working employees, they won't have a hard time hiring and keeping them. It wasn't that long ago that a guy could support his family driving a truck, without his wife having to work, and be home most weekends. Ain't like that anymore...

Allison automatic transmissions seem to get rave reviews. What sets them apart from the others?

GM made a smart move, and for many years, had a hugely superior transmission to the other light truck makers. The Allison is hard to tear up and with the computerization, it is almost impossible to tear up.

Now if you also realize that GM's various 4L60 and 4L80 automatic transmissions through the 90s were pretty UNreliable, they really benefit from improving so much from where they were just a few years prior, to when they introduced the Allison transmission.

 

[Reg]

Allison automatic transmissions seem to get rave reviews. What sets them apart from the others?

It seems that there are plenty of advantages to automatic transmissions when the driver is incompitent, lazy or careless. I am having a hard time understanding other advantages.

I am planning to swap the engine and trans in my 1977 ford pickup. My first choice would be a cummis with a 6 speed. Automatics are a lot easier to find. Should I comprimize? In all my years of driving and towing, I can not think of a single time that I wished I had an automatic. Well, there was the time I plulled my left LCL skiing, but none other than that. Have autimatics improved so much that manufacturers see no need for manual transmissions any more? Or is the recent shift (pun intended) toward automatics just due to consumer demand rather than technological improvement?

Not sure that it is the Allison trans itself as much as it is the (presumably "adaptive") algorithms in the smart box (-:

It just seems to do all the right things at the right times, e.g. put it in tow/haul mode on the highway at 65 and nothing much happens.
When you back off for the off ramp it will shift down at just the right speed, then shift down again - all just about how a better than me driver would do it on a manual if they were driving a manual, but SMOOTH and yet not slushy. I am fairly sure that it adjusts to load as well.

The engine braking doesn't always please me though.
There are times when I will dab the brakes just slightly to avoid an increase in speed on a downgrade, it senses that there wasn't enough deceleration and shifts down. If I do that again it will shift down again. It can become a real pain on long gentle down grades because it won't shift up again until I have been on the GO pedal for 1/2 second plus.
It isn't that I ride the brakes, it is that I should be able to use the brakes to avoid speed build up, not just to reduce speed.
It doesn't seem to "understand" that (-:

 

[Dmace]

I am surprised that Dodge has not canned the manual like Ford did years ago and GM did with a few years back.

That's what happens when a company builds trucks the customers want instead of what the bean counters want. We get manual transmissions, you get a "man step" and lighted vanity mirrors.

Ford only quit with the manual in 2011, GM in '07...

That's because they both used the same exact ZF S6-650 manual transmission.

 

[Ford tractor]

It's really quite simple. The bean counters won. The company gets dramatically more profit for the automatic than for the manual. Plus, the supply chain is simplified as is the assembly operations.

 

[Raspy]

It's really quite simple. The bean counters won. The company gets dramatically more profit for the automatic than for the manual. Plus, the supply chain is simplified as is the assembly operations.

Well, OK, but the manual stresses the drivetrain and the engine more with lugging or dropping the clutch. I can't help but think the manufacturers are trying to give their overstressed engines the best chance to survive. Especially Ford and Chevy.

The autos are a lot more popular too. When I bought my new Cummins in 2004 there was a huge charge for the auto over the stick. No way that trans should have cost so much more. Seems like they just charge more for what's popular.

 

[jeffsw6]

The engine braking doesn't always please me though.
There are times when I will dab the brakes just slightly to avoid an increase in speed on a downgrade, it senses that there wasn't enough deceleration and shifts down. If I do that again it will shift down again. It can become a real pain on long gentle down grades because it won't shift up again until I have been on the GO pedal for 1/2 second plus.
It isn't that I ride the brakes, it is that I should be able to use the brakes to avoid speed build up, not just to reduce speed.
It doesn't seem to "understand" that (-:

If you use cruise control it should pretty much do the right thing.

 

[frischtr]

That's because they both used the same exact ZF S6-650 manual transmission.

I am aware they used the same manual trans. I actually prefer that one to the NV5600 in my Dodge, but not much difference. If my 5600 ever does kick the bucket, I'll be replacing it with and Eaton-Fuller medium duty transmission.