ATV tires on a Zero Turn?

[Notforhire]

I have a Ferris 2200 also, love it. I had the dealer install Michelin Tweel rear tires on it, no flats in the front also. The tire has a flatter footprint than the pneumatic tire, and I have found it to be more aggressive as far a slipping on loose terrain. I cut around a number of ponds, and have never slid like I did with the other tires.
I also don't have to worry about flats once a week anymore.

Flats once a week???
Where do you mow, at the local sheet rock screw factory??

 

[Vigo327]

I have been using ATV tires rated for 'low' weight and pressure on the front of my B6100 w/fel for a year or so. The B6100 is tiny as tractors go but still WAAAY over the weight rating of the ATV tires when the loader is in use. I know we're not talking about tractors here but i'm just using my example to illustrate that the weight rating is.. not a hard limit, and not even close to what it would take to pop the tire.

I recently typed a LOT about that on a different forum, so I'll copy it here. There was talk of using car/truck tires as well, thus all the car analogies:

As far as ATV tires holding up to FEL use... apparently! I had those concerns when i was deciding what front tire to put on my 6100. It had 20.5" trailer tires on the front when i got it, which was basically making it 2wd in terms of how useless they were for traction. I considered the more mainstream options but decided the absolute biggest factor i was after, was the least tread touching the ground. However much weight is on a tire, divided by how much rubber is actually touching the ground, gives you your 'surface pressure'. The more surface pressure, the more traction (at least on a hard surface). It also means more leaving marks aka 'turf damage' but i don't have turf and the ground here is extremely hard. The ATV tires i picked actually had less tread touching the ground at a time than R1s, which i figured would give the best shot of traction. So far I've been pleased with that aspect. As far as their weight capacity... I was 50/50 on whether it was going to work or not. But im constantly maxing out the stock hydraulics of my loader and have had no issues whatsoever. The worst things I've done to them was pull ridiculously heavy things uphill, in reverse, while trying to turn. Like a loaded 18ft trailer, and a John Deere 720. Both times the tractor was pushing backwards with the front tires hard enough to start lifting the rear end, so all ~1500 lbs of the tractor plus whatever weight was on the loader, and attempting to turn was having the tire flex sideways under the rim a good 2-3 inches. I thought for sure they were going to pop at that point, but they didn't and I haven't worried about it since.

I hate to write too many essays in one thread but weight capacity of tires mostly has to do with heat buildup. Tires usually have max amounts of weight, pressure, and speed written on them, but not together in such a way that the relationship between them is explained. Weight causes sidewall flex, which only happens under the wheel. So as a tire rolls the sidewall is flexing back and forth as it passes under the wheel. That internal friction, plus whatever friction is being created between the tire and the ground, causes heat buildup in the tire. The 'proper' air pressure in a car is mostly derived from the amount of pressure that will keep the sidewall in a 'happy' amount of flex, while not ballooning the tread outward such that it wears unevenly and making it ride rough from excessive pressure. So you run the pressure that lifts the weight enough that the sidewall doesn't flex too much. There are videos online of people popping tires with sheer air pressure, and even the flimsy lawn tractor tires get up near 100psi before popping, and car/truck tires can get well over 200psi. In a car, speed can cause the heat to accumulate faster than it dissipates, eventually leading to tire failure. On a tractor, speed is not a factor. The only way you'll overheat a tractor tire is by rolling on it nearly flat for a long time (too much flexing, and since tractor tires can be REALLY old they'll often split at the sidewalls at this point) , or spinning it on the ground for a long time. Both rare. So even if we're over the 'weight capacity' we're not spinning it fast enough to overheat it from internal friction, and we're not putting enough pressure in it to pop it, and we're not doing tractor burnouts.. so it's fine! The limits on tires are basically 'this is the max weight the tire can hold at the max speed and pressure listed elsewhere on the tire'. If you go slower, you can get away with more weight and less pressure.

 

[Notforhire]

I have been using ATV tires rated for 'low' weight and pressure on the front of my B6100 w/fel for a year or so. The B6100 is tiny as tractors go but still WAAAY over the weight rating of the ATV tires when the loader is in use. I know we're not talking about tractors here but i'm just using my example to illustrate that the weight rating is.. not a hard limit, and not even close to what it would take to pop the tire.

I recently typed a LOT about that on a different forum, so I'll copy it here. There was talk of using car/truck tires as well, thus all the car analogies:

I would agree that manufacturers build in a "safety factor" in most all of their products and usually will withstand more load than they are designed for. If given some tires I might be tempted to give them a try even if they were slightly overloaded.

However, "just because you can doesn't mean you should", applies here.

I'm looking to replace my current tires with others that will provide better traction.
There are lots of tires to choose from that will do what I want and have the correct weight rating for my application.

If forced to make due, I will make do, but in this case properly rated tires can be had at the same price/ availability as underrated ones.
I see no logic in risking a blowout for no reason.

 

[Vigo327]

I understand your position. As a professional automotive tech I've done so many things by the book that I turn all my personal projects into science experiments to keep things interesting. I've done things like triple the horsepower of a chrysler minivan and gone 100+ mph on 'flat tires' (drag slicks @10psi etc). I teach automotive classes at a community college, and in one of my classes we spend 3 weeks talking about and working on tires. Because i know how to run a tire machine and have free access to them I can try whatever I want, even if it's something a regular shop would refuse to attempt or accept any liability for, and it doesn't cost me anything.

I enjoy spreading the results of my experiments, but it's up to anyone else whether it appeals to them or not.

 

[Notforhire]

Well I got my tires today. They are a big improvement over the turf tires supplied by Ferris. I've run this style of tire for about 18 years without issues so I thought another set would be a safe bet. Judging by the responses to this thread others have had good luck too. I mowed today right after a heavy rain, only place I had some turf damage was pulling a hill. BTW they are rated at around 1,300 lbs ea.
I thank you all for your input!



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[BoylermanCT]

Switching to Carlisle AT101 bar tires was the best improvement I made to my zero turn. You should be happy with your new tires, similar design. The AT101's eliminated wheel spin but introduced whip lash because the zero turn just went when you threw the bars forward! Never going back to normal tires.

 

[Vigo327]

Can't argue with that style of tread, it definitely works. And usually on a tractor forum when people are concerned about leaving marks they're talking about MUCH heavier machines. I think most zero turns could drive all over the place with those tires not leaving any marks unless the ground is wet, or you're turning sharply. Glad you got what you wanted out of the upgrade!

 

[Richard001]

Well I got my tires today. They are a big improvement over the turf tires supplied by Ferris. I've run this style of tire for about 18 years without issues so I thought another set would be a safe bet. Judging by the responses to this thread others have had good luck too. I mowed today right after a heavy rain, only place I had some turf damage was pulling a hill. BTW they are rated at around 1,300 lbs ea.
I thank you all for your input!



View attachment 753218View attachment 753219View attachment 753220t

WOW, independent front suspension with shocks even. That is one mean machine.

Richard

 

[Notforhire]

WOW, independent front suspension with shocks even. That is one mean machine.

Richard

Take a look at photo #3 these new models have four wheel independent suspension. The seat has an adjustable suspension along with lumbar and tilt on the back.
The vanguard engine has a separate oil tank that holds 5 qts. of oil along with the filter and allows for 500 hr oil changes . This also allows the engine to run at 45 deg. tilt without issues. It's a lot more complex than my old 1000z rigid frame but it rides sooooo much better. It's a lot more mower than I need, but should be my last.

 

[Vigo327]

I was looking at the pics trying to figure out if the rear was independent.. figured it would be strange to lock them together since it's two different transaxles with two different sets of controls in the first place. 4 wheel independent suspension.. heck yeah man! That may be the kind of zero turn i'd actually appreciate. The ones without suspension i've used on my property (i fix mowers for a cousin occasionally) have been too rough-riding to take advantage of all their speed on my lumpy land.

Having a separate oil sump which is usually tall and narrow to provide a consistent oil feed regardless of tilt/bumps etc is called 'dry sump oil system' on cars and is usually reserved for expensive race-ready types of vehicles which slosh their oil up into the crank on hard turns, or dedicated off-road vehicles that tilt to extreme angles. To have that on a lawnmower is pretty dang cool.

Looks like a pretty sweet machine!