Attacking that power problem CT225

[lilranch2001]

I would suggest contacting the Bobcat National Sales Manager or Service Manager, and explain your issues or e mail ond have him look at this thread.
I spoke to my sales person yesterday about some of the issues that have been brought up on this forum and he spoke to the national guy right afterwards (who happens to be his father) and said there are few and far between issues with the Bobcat CUT's

 

[bbse]

This may be a really stupid idea, but if the dealer has a 225, could you not do a side by side right there at the dealership? I mean you could even hook them tail to tail with a logging chain, and you should be able to tell if there is something wrong right away.

That is exactly what we are doing. The salesman is supposed to bring a unit out here and let me duplicate my tests with a different machine. If it is weal also then we will all know. I will also let Bobcat know. These guys seem genuinely baffled. They have basically 0 experience with tractors and don't seem to understand what a CUT should do.

 

[DK35vince]

That is exactly what we are doing. The salesman is supposed to bring a unit out here and let me duplicate my tests with a different machine. If it is weal also then we will all know. I will also let Bobcat know. These guys seem genuinely baffled. They have basically 0 experience with tractors and don't seem to understand what a CUT should do.

Maybe you can also show him what your 3054 can do in the same situation with similar HP.

 

[captin_insano]

you cant compare a gear tractor to a HST. The HST eats up a lot of the power, no matter the brand of tractor, if it has an HST it will give up some power at the wheels to gain ease of operation. Having run that ct235 loaner for awhile here I am leaning towards thinking your tractor is working right. Its just a matter of alot of weight and a HST. You may have to get used to using lower gears than you did on your gear model. I do hope its something simple and insignificant wrong with yours and it can be made to perform up to your standards though.

 

[bbse]

you cant compare a gear tractor to a HST. The HST eats up a lot of the power, no matter the brand of tractor, if it has an HST it will give up some power at the wheels to gain ease of operation. Having run that ct235 loaner for awhile here I am leaning towards thinking your tractor is working right. Its just a matter of alot of weight and a HST. You may have to get used to using lower gears than you did on your gear model. I do hope its something simple and insignificant wrong with yours and it can be made to perform up to your standards though.

I don't think they would care what my 3054 can do because according to the service manager, these new tractors have a lot of power robbing emissions controls, plus it is gear drive. It is also in Lexington and I am in Nashville.

As to living with it, no way. I will sell it and go back to hauling the Kioti back and forth between here and west TN. I can't stomach something this bad. Also, if this turns out to be by design, I will be contacting Bobcat corporate with a suggestion that they paint these pink and add a flower holder next to the steering wheel, like those cute little gay/feminine VW Beetles.

 

[captin_insano]

according to the service manager, these new tractors have a lot of power robbing emissions controls

My bota L3400 has a sticker that says "extra power" and the engine hp is rated approx 2 hp higher than the older ones. The kubota rep who was looking at my 7800 when I bought the L told me that the emissions equipment eat that extra power up and I'm left with basically the same wheel hp as the older ones.

 

[Sprocket]

What does it take to turn a 225 into a 230 or 235? It could be pretty simple. The tractor itself is the same. Injectors and reflash of the ECM could make a huge difference. even larger cylinder liners and new piston shouldn't be a big deal on a 3 cylinder. could some of the 230/235 guys chime in with displacement #s, bore and stroke, injector pump and injector #s. It might be interesting.

 

[bbse]

What does it take to turn a 225 into a 230 or 235? It could be pretty simple. The tractor itself is the same. Injectors and reflash of the ECM could make a huge difference. even larger cylinder liners and new piston shouldn't be a big deal on a 3 cylinder. could some of the 230/235 guys chime in with displacement #s, bore and stroke, injector pump and injector #s. It might be interesting.

This is a new tractor with slightly less than 50 hours, I doubt B-C is going to want to mess with this as a warranty issue. Bumping that relief valve up so I could actually use the HP I have would be nice. I rebuilt the engine on my Kioti 3054 and though it was simple compared to most, it still was no "simple" task. It would be easier for them to just swap me for a CT235 than to go thru all that...which I doubt very seriously they will do anyways. I am supposed to be hearing from a sales person for a test of the tractor...that was 2 days ago. I think we have hit the ignore me stage which I am fixing to correct abruptly.

 

[devildog1]

bbse,
you are totally correct, you should not accept that answer, my Craftsman's Garden tractor will spin or loose traction before it will stall. If you can't resolve this issue with BC, you know what you have to do as I could see by reading through this thread. It is totally unacceptable for your size tractor to be operating the way is does, and if BC says so then they need to go back to the drawing board. Best of luck to you.
DevilDog

 

[SPYDERLK]

Just brought the tractor home from Bobcat and it is still the same if not even a little worse.

I am unfamiliar with your tractor models characteristic performance so pls bear with me.
1] About how fast will your tractor go on level ground in mid range. - As fast as you can possibly walk w/o breaking into a trot?- faster?? ... Im trying to get an idea of the gearing equivalent here to make a comparison to my BX.
2] When you speak of not being able to spin the wheels are you talking about low range or mid range?
3] Are your tires loaded?

My BX will not spin its Ags on good ground even in low range - it doesnt stall either since the hst goes into relief. The BX low range can go at a brisk walk and will climb 30degrees or more. Hi [2 ranges only] will make 8 or 9 mph and is very hard pressed to climb 18 degrees unladen except for mmm.

Has anyone checked your tractor for a parasitic hydraulic load from, perhaps a restriction in the fel valve? Does your fel valve or any of the remotes get hot w/i 30 minutes of starting. If so it could be suck a couple hp pumping thru a restriction. ... :confused2:
larry

 

[sparkyaber]

spyder, that is a good idea, made me think, well does this tractor go 13.1 mph? specs says it should, and if you or anybody you know has a gps, that will give you speed to the tenth of an mph. Should also be a sign if things are not correct.

 

[bbse]

In High i can't get past 2500 rpm so I will have to check the specs to see if the 13.1 MPH listed is for 2500 or 3000 rpm. In mid range it is a very fast walk I would say, not a run, maybe 4-5 mph wide open with the pedal down. I do stall out on the hills but if you don't go but a little to half way you can keep the RPM's up. On the tire spinning, low range and I now have loaded tires but it wouldn't do it before I loaded them either so I'm not cutting them any slack on that.

 

[dex3361]

In High i can't get past 2500 rpm so I will have to check the specs to see if the 13.1 MPH listed is for 2500 or 3000 rpm. In mid range it is a very fast walk I would say, not a run, maybe 4-5 mph wide open with the pedal down. I do stall out on the hills but if you don't go but a little to half way you can keep the RPM's up. On the tire spinning, low range and I now have loaded tires but it wouldn't do it before I loaded them either so I'm not cutting them any slack on that.

It may be a good idea to get a cheap photo sensor tach and check if the tractor tach is correct. This may help in dealing with the power issue.
Something like this.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search

 

[bbse]

I am not going to spend a dime on this. I have already been put out enough. I was finally contacted by a salesman after I called the third time today, he is supposed to bring another tractor out Monday and we can compare.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I may be, how steep a hill should I be able to climb in mid range with the loader and scraper attached? The thing that bugs me is that if I stop(or come to a stop is more like it) on a hill in mid range, I can apply light pedal pressure and keep the RPM's up but I cannot get the tractor to move. I can push down on the hydro pedal and start to stall it, by feathering I can get down on the pedal pretty good and keep my RPM's up to but I cannot get moving. Likewise, on solid grass covered ground in low range, 3000 rpm, barely pushing the pedal with the loader into a pile, I cannot break the tires loose. I can push the pedal on down and stall it but I cannot get my engine power to the tires. My Kioti will dig to the axles at a lot lower rpm.

This says the relief is set to low or something is mechanically wrong with the HST. If the latter it should show it by running HOT

Just to make it clearer, I took my angle gauge today and a 2x4, went to my hill side and laid the board down on the steepest part of the hill I have tried in mid range it is just shy of 20 degrees. That is with 0 being level and 90 being vertical. Some parts were 15-18 degrees. Is this too steep to expect the CT225 to climb in mid range? My LK3054 will go up it in 6th gear(out of 8) with a loader, 5ft KK brush cutter, loaded tires and all. In 5th I can accelerate going up it. As I stated with the CT225 if I stop in the middle, around 18 degrees, I can't take back off again with the loader, a 6ft lightweight box blade and loaded tires. Seems real puny to me.

I call 18-20 fairly steep, but in a walking speed gear you should be able to stop start and climb at partial pedal. Again - RV set too low or a real trans problem.

In High i can't get past 2500 rpm so I will have to check the specs to see if the 13.1 MPH listed is for 2500 or 3000 rpm. In mid range it is a very fast walk I would say, not a run, maybe 4-5 mph wide open with the pedal down. I do stall out on the hills but if you don't go but a little to half way you can keep the RPM's up. On the tire spinning, low range and I now have loaded tires but it wouldn't do it before I loaded them either so I'm not cutting them any slack on that.

I think its the RV set about 500psi too low. Wont help your top speed but will allow you to get more push than youre getting now in every gear by using partial pedal. Your engine should also get a little stonger as it breaks in. Cant wait to hear how the comparison to another 225 works out.
larry

 

[captin_insano]

If it stalls as it is now, I dont think turning the pressure up is going to solve anything. But I could be wrong, only way to know for sure is to do it.

 

[Sprocket]

I checked my driveway slope with a 100" board level it is 15-16" off the ground on the downhill side. (16% grade) My CT225 Loader and Box blade empty tires can climb it in mid range at 2000 rpm. The rpms drop some as I take off and I adjust them up with the throttle lever, then I can run the entire 800ft long driveway without lifting off the forward pedal. when I stop the rpms are closer to 2400 but I can stop and start again on the hill.

Hope this helps.

 

[SPYDERLK]

If it stalls as it is now, I dont think turning the pressure up is going to solve anything. But I could be wrong, only way to know for sure is to do it.

Yeah, I know it seems that way, but if you think of the pedal as like a continuous seamless gearshift it makes sense. When you just push down a little you ask for a very small flow. That flow bulids pressure on the hyd motor to turn the wheels. Even if the resistance is great, and pressure goes high trying to move, the HP required from the engine is small because you are asking for a small amt of flow. Say you dont move - perhaps the natural internal leakage of the pump and motor at the high pressure is leaking the small flow youre asking. Or maybe the relief has cracked. You have no way of knowing - you just know youre still and the engine isnt bogging. You push the pedal further...same - further.. its bogging down. At this point you can be sure you are bypassing thru the relief. Because output torque is not increasing its safe to deduce that pressure is not increasing even tho youve increased flow so much that the engine labors. In a tight hst the only thing that can bypass this much flow without sky hi pressure is the relief valve. -- You push the pedal to the floor. Maybe you move a few inches as the engine stalls. The pressure has gone up a little to force the extra flow thru the relief. Now suppose that unknown pressure [lets call it 3000] that just made you move was guaranteed to be reached before relief started. [The relief is reset to ~3100]. Now, when you push the pedal a little the pressure rises to 3K and you start to creep...alittle more a faster creep.. and so on until you reach a point where the flow and pressure [3000] become too much for the engine to sustain. It starts to bog and you back off the pedal a little and keep going.

If the system can sustain that pressure by design youre good to go for a long time. If not a more powerful system is needed.

From what others have said about the same tractor I think his relief is set on the low side of the spec or below.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

I checked my driveway slope with a 100" board level it is 15-16" off the ground on the downhill side. (16% grade) My CT225 Loader and Box blade empty tires can climb it in mid range at 2000 rpm. The rpms drop some as I take off and I adjust them up with the throttle lever, then I can run the entire 800ft long driveway without lifting off the forward pedal. when I stop the rpms are closer to 2400 but I can stop and start again on the hill.

Hope this helps.

Good info. Thats only about 9 degrees. Are you easing the pedal all the way to the metal and still pulling the hill or are you going up at partial pedal?

My impression is that yours and the OPs tractors react similarly in midrange.
larry

 

[bbse]

I checked my driveway slope with a 100" board level it is 15-16" off the ground on the downhill side. (16% grade) My CT225 Loader and Box blade empty tires can climb it in mid range at 2000 rpm. The rpms drop some as I take off and I adjust them up with the throttle lever, then I can run the entire 800ft long driveway without lifting off the forward pedal. when I stop the rpms are closer to 2400 but I can stop and start again on the hill.

Hope this helps.

One thing I would like you to try if you would, crank her up wide open to 2800-3000 and try it. It won't hurt anything. I am not trying anything at 2400 rpm, I have been trying this at full throttle.