Attacking that power problem CT225

[CT230 Fan]

thought about getting rid of my 225 cause it cannot go up a slight incline in mid range when running the belly mower and on High you all are correct, its a highway gear only but I do need to run at 2500 rpm to get her to go

Yea, I'd say there is something causing this. I generally run at 2500 RPMS for mowing and have no problems. While plowing snow, I've even run it up closer to 3000. Either way, the tractor goes to where I put it. It stays there unless I really get into something rough, then it will drop rpms, but as soon as I let up in the throttle, it jumps right back up there.

 

[Gittyup]

If the tractor is working fine in mid range, then it is probably functioning as it was designed. You might be expecting too much.

 

[bbse]

If the tractor is working fine in mid range, then it is probably functioning as it was designed. You might be expecting too much.

I may be, how steep a hill should I be able to climb in mid range with the loader and scraper attached? The thing that bugs me is that if I stop(or come to a stop is more like it) on a hill in mid range, I can apply light pedal pressure and keep the RPM's up but I cannot get the tractor to move. I can push down on the hydro pedal and start to stall it, by feathering I can get down on the pedal pretty good and keep my RPM's up to but I cannot get moving. Likewise, on solid grass covered ground in low range, 3000 rpm, barely pushing the pedal with the loader into a pile, I cannot break the tires loose. I can push the pedal on down and stall it but I cannot get my engine power to the tires. My Kioti will dig to the axles at a lot lower rpm.

 

[CT230 Fan]

That is not the norm. In mid range you should be able to drive that thing up a mountain. I would start with my dealer and give them a chance to make it right, whether that be fixing your tractor or replacing it. If that gets you nowhere, then I'd get w. the Regional sales manager and lean on him. I would also point out that there are already a few dissatisfied customer that are stating their opinions on large internet forums such as these, and it would be benificial for Bobcat to make these customers happy. I know that I did a lot of research before I jumped in feet first and bought a tractor, and I'd say most people are using the internet to do this. If that doesn't work, I guess you will have to work your way up the chain of command. Eventually you will find someone that doesn't want to deal with the situation, and they are high enough up to just make it go away. In that case, you win. Good luck.

 

[devildog1]

I may be, how steep a hill should I be able to climb in mid range with the loader and scraper attached? The thing that bugs me is that if I stop(or come to a stop is more like it) on a hill in mid range, I can apply light pedal pressure and keep the RPM's up but I cannot get the tractor to move. I can push down on the hydro pedal and start to stall it, by feathering I can get down on the pedal pretty good and keep my RPM's up to but I cannot get moving. Likewise, on solid grass covered ground in low range, 3000 rpm, barely pushing the pedal with the loader into a pile, I cannot break the tires loose. I can push the pedal on down and stall it but I cannot get my engine power to the tires. My Kioti will dig to the axles at a lot lower rpm.

bbse,
There is a issue with your Bobcat tractor, and you should have dealer come out to see first hand what you are talking about. No brand bashing here just the for comparing my Kubota B3200 with 60" FEL and 72" BB on about same degree of slope. I plow or pushed 24" snow up grade with BB down and scraping snow all the way in M range. Did the same with my BX23, you should be able to do same and if anything spin or loose traction before tractor stall out. Don't take no for an answer, follow the chain of command and pursue till you are satisfied, It's your right as a good faith buyer. Good Luck to you, DevilDog

 

[bbse]

bbse,
There is a issue with your Bobcat tractor, and you should have dealer come out to see first hand what you are talking about. No brand bashing here just the for comparing my Kubota B3200 with 60" FEL and 72" BB on about same degree of slope. I plow or pushed 24" snow up grade with BB down and scraping snow all the way in M range. Did the same with my BX23, you should be able to do same and if anything spin or loose traction before tractor stall out. Don't take no for an answer, follow the chain of command and pursue till you are satisfied, It's your right as a good faith buyer. Good Luck to you, DevilDog

Spoke with the branch manager today. They keep claiming that they have tested everything and it meets spec. So I told him that

1. That means all CT225's have no power and it is a brand wide issue, in which case it is something that they are going to have to prove to me before I accept that reason as an answer/excuse. Of course then I would really dog them out.

2. If it is just mine that is bad, they need to fix it

3. If they cannot fix it then they need to replace it.

So far they are playing dumb. He keeps asking me the same questions like I am going to start doubting my answer or something. Looks like I am in for a long struggle as they don't seem to want to do anything. I am going to go out there Monday and see if they will let me on one of their other CT225's to see how it performs in comparison. But as I told him, you are trying to get me to believe that Bobcat put out a tractor that cannot even pull itself up a hill in mid range, let alone do some work on the way. We shall see.

 

[crusty 1]

All I can say is my 235 today pulled a 7 ft. back blade of mud thru a soup hole and never had a power issue,something has got to be wrong with yours. The dealer makes a big difference in trying to figure these things out,best of luck!

 

[CT230 Fan]

Just a suggestion here, but I would try and schedule a meeting at your place with both the branch manager and a representative from bobcat. Demonstrate to them the issues you are having, and then ask them if that is the product they are selling! You have to be willing to put pressure on them and if that means the threat of a lawsuit, then that may be the route you have to take.

Here is a little story that is similar to your situation. My parents are at retirement age. They purchased a brand new RV(brand to remain unnamed). They had it for about a year or so, and had a few small issues with it, but nothing huge. Well, something else went wrong and my dad took it in to have it worked on. The technician mentioned that there was a lot of rust on the underside of the unit, and that it was too new for that. After that, my dad got curious and crawled under and realized that it was litterally rusting out. So much so that the straps for the gas tank were nearly gone, and many of the bots used were rusted off. My dad started w. the dealer, and he accepted no responsibility and gave him the run around. Back and forth they went till he finally got ahold of someone w. the RV mfg. They go back and forth. Here's the deal, these units were mfg down south, but nowhere near the ocean, and we are nowhere near the ocean, but this unit had to have been exposed to saltwater, and a lot of it. Every dealer was supposed to wash the units upon receiving them as well, but our best guess is that this RV was caught up in a tropical storm or hurricane and got coated in salt water which cause the problems. Long story short, after months of fighting back and forth the RV mfg. gave in and replaced the RV with a brand new model. Part of the reason the gave in was the threat of a lawsuit, and also the threat of smearing their name across the internet and by word of mouth. One of the conditions of the resolution, was that my dad could not publically smear them. Any way, I hope you don't have to work as hard as he did and everything works out for your benifit.

 

[bbse]

I agree CT230, I am taking this one step at a time. If they do not fix it now my next step is to have them come to my place for a demonstration. I am going to try to have them bring another of their tractors. After that there will be the consumer agencies, also calls to corporate including Daedong USA, copies and links to the internet forum posts, this one and several others I will have had by that time. I will not stop...one thing I can be is relentless. I am good at righteous indignation.

 

[Gittyup]

There was a Kioti a year or two ago that had these same symptoms. They ended up replacing the HST, as I recall, and all was well after that. Stay after them. Good luck.

 

[crusty 1]

bbse,at the time my dealer was installing my new snowblower,the mech. told me they had to install a new trans. in a tractor which souned about like yours.They say no reason for the failure but the new one fixed it.Nothing was seen to be the cause for it to not work.I agree that if your dealer isn,t going to help you go over his head to the big guys.Only thing is I hope you have a different dealer for future things cuz the old one probably won,t be of much help after being called out! Best of luck.These really are very good tractors,I,v used many brands in my life and bobcat is the best I,v used.As i said in a past post,if my grand dad had equip. this sweet he,d have never died.

 

[bbse]

There was a Kioti a year or two ago that had these same symptoms. They ended up replacing the HST, as I recall, and all was well after that. Stay after them. Good luck.

I remember reading this thread but I cannot find it now. If anybody remembers the key words and can find it I would appreciate a link. I am afraid it may be gone, wasn't there a crash a while back and some threads were lost?

 

[TBDonnelly]

I remember reading this thread but I cannot find it now.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/645136-post14.html

Don

 

[qed-cat225]

well here is what my local bobcat dealer told me about using the mid mower and not having enough umpf to go up a small incline in HST Medium

"We tend to think you are overloading the engine. Running in low range will help provide the drive torque needed for the terrain, and still reserve enough horsepower for the PTO. You should be using low range, to reserve engine horsepower for the PTO.
Hope this helps."

yeah lots of help!

 

[CT230 Fan]

That's a cop out if you ask me. The tractor should be able to do almost all functions in Mid range, as that is how mine works and I only have a couple extra HP to the PTO, plus, I think people are having this problem even when the PTO is not engaged right?

 

[bbse]

well here is what my local bobcat dealer told me about using the mid mower and not having enough umpf to go up a small incline in HST Medium

"We tend to think you are overloading the engine. Running in low range will help provide the drive torque needed for the terrain, and still reserve enough horsepower for the PTO. You should be using low range, to reserve engine horsepower for the PTO.
Hope this helps."

yeah lots of help!

Mine will almost stall out going up a medium size hill with just the FEL on, no PTO engage. It won't stall out on a slight incline but it will slow down some. To bush hog up those hill I have to use low and even then let off the pedal pretty good on the thicker stuff. I'm not too surprised about that. It is the running unloaded performance and the fact it can't even spin the tires out on good solid dirt that to me indicates a real problem. Going to swing by the dealer in just a bit to check progress.

 

[bbse]

Just to make it clearer, I took my angle gauge today and a 2x4, went to my hill side and laid the board down on the steepest part of the hill I have tried in mid range it is just shy of 20 degrees. That is with 0 being level and 90 being vertical. Some parts were 15-18 degrees. Is this too steep to expect the CT225 to climb in mid range? My LK3054 will go up it in 6th gear(out of 8) with a loader, 5ft KK brush cutter, loaded tires and all. In 5th I can accelerate going up it. As I stated with the CT225 if I stop in the middle, around 18 degrees, I can't take back off again with the loader, a 6ft lightweight box blade and loaded tires. Seems real puny to me.

Went by the dealer today, their still saying it meets spec and they cannot see anything wrong. I am going to bring it back tomorrow. I if I still can't spin the tires or climb the hill, I am inviting them out with another CT225.

 

[Josh61513]

I posted this in your owning/operating thread as well:

1) When you have the tractor in lowest range, be it a gear tractor or HST, and you demand maximum forward power but prevent movement (against a large tree, or tied to something) one of two things will happen, right? The tractor will either A) spin one or more tires, or B)if your traction exceeds your power output the tractor will stall. If you are able to stall the tractor than your traction exceeds your power output. This will happen with both an HST and gear tractor, and I don't see this as a problem at all.

Many of the higher horsepower per pound tractors (JD, Kubota, etc.) have more power than traction in low range so they will instead spin the tires in the same condition.

If you had said the tractor will not spin its tires and the engine will not stall, then that would mean the relief valve in the HST has met its maximum power output. That could be normal operation or potentially point to a relief valve out-of-spec. But since the tractor stalls this does not point to a problem with the transmission. It is possible that the engine is not making it's rated power, the best way to test would be to find a tractor dynomometer. The higher output (CT 230, CT 235) may spin its tires in this same condition, but then again it could exceed the power rating of the HST and engage the relief valve.

2) What does the engine do in this condition? Does it (nearly) maintain RPM or does it stall? If it stalls, again you have more traction than power. If the engine maintains RPM the HST relief valve has engaged which may or may not be as designed. Although, 16-20 degrees is significant. You may simply need to use low range in this condition. It's possible that a gear tractor may be better suited for this condition because it will likely have at least one range between "low" and "mid" so you could travel a bit faster, though it still wouldn't be easy to begin from a stop while using the clutch...

 

[bbse]

Since you posted here also so will I.

I just brought the tractor home from Bobcat and it is still the same if not even a little worse. As to stalling. I can start at a touch of pedal to about 2/3rds before it starts to stall, applied slowly of course. The same on the hill side except on the hill as I give it just a little more than a touch it will shudder a bit but won't move. I just tried the tractor against a tree again and my fields are pretty soft right now. It has rained the last 2 days. I nearly stuck my truck and I left some bad ruts getting out. But the tractor will not spin a tire even on that soft ground. Either it is super weak or I have some super traction on near mud!

As to my Kioti being gear on that same hill, I have gone up it in 5th and 6th many times over the past 5 years and I agree I wouldn't want to drop the clutch in the middle but I have started at the bottom many times at idle and just drove right up that rise with no problems. That is what I meant by accelerate easily in fifth gear. I always line up straight first before I go up it if I have a lot of weight on the small Kioti.

 

[sparkyaber]

This may be a really stupid idea, but if the dealer has a 225, could you not do a side by side right there at the dealership? I mean you could even hook them tail to tail with a logging chain, and you should be able to tell if there is something wrong right away.