Anyone with Tree Farming Experience?

[AceDeuce]

Well, my wife and I have finally decided to move forward with starting a hardwood plantation on our property in WNY. I've done the research, bought the seedlings and planned a weekend in late April to hopefully put 250 trees in the ground as a "test". I have an L2250 w/ loader, bushhog, box blade, and disc at my disposal to assist with the prep work. There's also a snowblower but if I need that, well, I don't think I'll be planting that weekend!

I was thinking about just bushogging the field (overgrown pasture) to knock down the weeds but more recently have considered using a disc or even a box blade instead. I don't want to do more prep work than is necessary or disturb the ground if I don't have to but I also want to give the trees as good of a start as possible within the time available to do the work (2-3 days total).

Does anyone out there have any advice to share that might save me trouble?

 

[dangerdoc]

Well, my wife and I have finally decided to move forward with starting a hardwood plantation on our property in WNY. I've done the research, bought the seedlings and planned a weekend in late April to hopefully put 250 trees in the ground as a "test". I have an L2250 w/ loader, bushhog, box blade, and disc at my disposal to assist with the prep work. There's also a snowblower but if I need that, well, I don't think I'll be planting that weekend!

I was thinking about just bushogging the field (overgrown pasture) to knock down the weeds but more recently have considered using a disc or even a box blade instead. I don't want to do more prep work than is necessary or disturb the ground if I don't have to but I also want to give the trees as good of a start as possible within the time available to do the work (2-3 days total).

Does anyone out there have any advice to share that might save me trouble?

Make sure you have a good deer proof fence.

 

[MarkV]

I’d get a soil test done to see what amendments may be needed for the soil.

MarkV

 

[Kubota 2007]

I have a tree farm in NE PA I've tried fruit trees,don't do well acid in soil, coal regon. I have mostly red oak,Cherry and Hard Maple.The deer are hard on everything. What grows best is evergreen trees. They thrive on acid, seedlings are mostly covered by snow and deer can't feed on them. I plant many different types and they add color to the dead woods in winter.

 

[Ranger Rick]

You might want to consider putting tree shelter tubes over your tree seedlings. They protect the tree from the deer and provide extra warmth and moisture to the tree. I would just bush hog the field and tube the trees. They will do fine.
Ranger Rick

 

[AceDeuce]

I'm glad to see others with similar thoughts.

We'll be planting Black Walnut, Black Cherry and Sugar [Hard] Maple. All indigenous to the area. No fruit trees. (Black cherry is not really a "fruit" tree). We may look at putting in some Red Oak next season if the "test" goes well.

Ironically, there are already lots of pines on the property from an old Christmas tree farm. The plan is to leave them alone for the time being but we aren't going to plant any more - even though they do well in the soil up there. Since hardwoods fetch many times the lumber price of pine, the whole idea is to pass on something of value to my kids and someday theirs.

Ranger Rick, I think I'm right on target with your suggestion. I had already planned on using 5' tree shelters specifically to combat the deer. I've noticed heavy browsing in the area and it was a big concern.

Kubota 2007, do you plant your own trees? How many trees could I expect to plant per hour using a planting bar in a two-man operation? I have my own estimate, which I used to curtail the number of trees I ordered, but I can find any metrics published anywhere.

 

[RobJ]

We have a lot of pine forest around here. First as you have done make sure it's a tree that will grow in that area. Pines are the big cash crop around east texas. I'm gonna guess bringing in a black walnut or red oak to the market will take 20-30 years? In 30 years you can plant, harvest, plant pines about 3-4 times. Which might bring more cash in the long run.

I think you can plant at least a tree a minute. The big farms around here use this big roller with spikes on it, then about 50 guys with seedlings on their hips. Drop on in the hole and kick it to cover it up. You can probably speed up the growing by putting out some fertilizer every now and then, even water if you need to. I would also only mow, you probably are not going to see those trees for several years anyway until the shoot up. The pine seedlings can't be more than 10" tall.

Sounds fun!

 

[ampsucker]

i think something like this might be helpful ;-)

they recommend significantly more site prep than you are planning for. i would also think you might need some type of irrigation plan and deer fencing or deterrent. search this site and google to find lots of info on deer deterrent. single strand electric fence may be your easiest bet depending on your configuration.

without any site prep, water, or predator control, i would expect about a 15-35% survival rate and very slow growth the first few years. that number could go way down if summer drought catches them or up a bit if you have a particularly good year and the deer can find something tastier to munch on.

i would think keeping the deer out, keeping the already established weed and grass competitors down and irrigating would be your largest concerns.

good luck!

 

[coog]

Great link,Ampsucker.I have a place in Chautauqua County.I am currently using my M7040 to undo what nature has wrought over the last 20 years...cedar,hedge,plum, etc. Some of the ground is tillable, but the majority is better suited to forestry.Do you farm down here?

 

[ampsucker]

hey, nice to meet cha, neighbor!

i don't think anyone would call what i do "farming" by any stretch! we have about four acres and i'm trying to undue what man has done to my nature! our little subdivision (sounds fancy but it's not) used to be pasture. the previous owners lived here 27 years (first owners of the house) so the oldest trees are about that old. i'm trying to get some natural kansas trees back in, start some windbreaks, get in some fruit trees and a little garden. that's about it.

i was very close to ordering about 250 trees/shrubs from k-state this past winter, but good thing i didn't as getting the garden in and keeping up with a 6 month old is about all this old man could handle. maybe next year??? i might scale back and try something smaller that i can manage to keep the deer away from. plus, it'll give me a chance to do better site prep this year and try to actually kill off some of the bermuda and weeds that infest around these parts.

how bout you? farming and living the good life over by Sedan? i could use some hedge apples to get a little grove started. plum and cedar were some of the saplings i was planning to order from k-state! sounds like we should swap!

k-state has a lot of info on their website for guys like us. depending on your location, you might want to leave some evergreens and plum for wild life and snow fence/wind break to protect your crops or herds. i never noticed it until i started looking for it, but lots of the big pastures in kansas have a large row of trees for windbreak service and to keep the snow drifted up outside of the feed lots. helps lower your utility bills too if you have a house or barn!

amp

 

[coog]

Amp,
I've got all the hedge apples you could want.I've got 160 acres, about half woods (should say, would like to get down to half woods) I've got White,Blackjack,Post and Burr Oaks, Hickory, Walnut ,Hedge and lots and lots of Cedar.The Hedge rows are great, but they do spread into places that you don't want them.One, maybe two Cedars are plenty; they are terrible water thieves (one acre Cedar infestation uses 55,000 gallons of water/year)Drive around KS and OK; it should be a prairie, not a hedge/cedar wasteland.I'm not sure how to transplant the Plum.I like it, but it invariably choose the middle of a field to plant itself.Let me know if you'd like to visit (with your spade and some buckets)and we'll set it up.

 

[roger 4400]

If I can help.....2 years ago, I planted 2,100 trees. I had an old clearance that was farmed 40 years ago. I use my finishing mower to Cut everything as low a s I could. Then BY HAND with a showel for each plant I made a hole and put every 2,100 plants in earth taking care to cover all the roots, spread them as well as I could.
600 yellow birch that were 8 in to 12 in high ( most of them survived) spaced them 10ft by 10 ft.
500 Tamaracks or larch, 18 in. to 24 in. high nude roots 7ft apart ( some of those trees are up to 7 feet now and I live in Quebec).
1000 norwegian spruce ( like white spruce but grows 30% faster) were 18 in. tall nude roots 7 ft apart ( over 90 to 95% alive).
So I guess that in less than 2 days you can easily plant 250 plants....but your back might be soared. I did it in 10 days and only had help of my wife 3 days (she works elsewere). Look in the woods around for NATUREL growth of the species you want to plant, the best way to see if they will adapted.
For your infos, I have also a 8 years white spruce plantation, over 800 and they are 7 to 12 feet high.
And on a land I bought a few years ago, +- 3,500 red pines that are use for telephone posts, those are 6 to 10 in,DBH and over 45 ft tall. It,s a very nice project , keep on. ( sorry for the english mistakes, I was raised in French). Roger

 

[roger 4400]

Sorry forgot to tell you.....
Black cherry DO NOT TOLERATE SHADE, they have to be in the open, plant them together, this way other growing faster specie will not cover them....theyre only competition will be from other cherry so equal...
For your hard maple ....no problem they tolerate shade it,s why in Quebec we have some mountains almost pure maple( I have 145 acres of sugar maple forest) they *killed** all the non tolerant to shade trees. But they need a well drained soil, if your soil is badly drained go with red maple, less value but it grows fast and like humid soil.
For walnut.....I,m JEALOUS....they do not grow overhere, too cold ( all my kitchen cabinets are black walnut that I made myself)........Good luck . Roger

 

[davitk]

The snow has finally melted here in southern Wisconsin. Boy, winter was hard on our trees, we have white cedar, white pine, blue spruce, black spruce, quaking aspen, swamp white oak, red oak, silver maple and tamarack, about three thousand, which we have planted over the last four years. Many of the pines and cedars were bent flat to the ground by the snow , putting a 90 degree kink in the trunk (praying they bounce back), while the hardwoods turned into browse for the moles. That of course is my fault, for letting the grass grow up around the trees in order to hide them from the deer, not realizing I had created a perfect habitat for the moles. I am a proud undergraduate of the School of Hard Knocks

So this year, instead of planting more we will be focusing on what we have, and that means lots more spraying, mowing and watering (unless our summer turns out like our winter, in which case everything will likely drown and then we can start from scratch). Here's a pic of my new 300 gallon watering can:

 

[drtydeed]

I have a tree farm in NE PA I've tried fruit trees,don't do well acid in soil, coal regon. I have mostly red oak,Cherry and Hard Maple.The deer are hard on everything. What grows best is evergreen trees. They thrive on acid, seedlings are mostly covered by snow and deer can't feed on them. I plant many different types and they add color to the dead woods in winter.

K2007, where are you located? I'm always looking for suppliers (we do a lot of tree installs). Have any western Green Giants?

PM me if your near nazareth and if you sell to contractors. Thanks

 

[john_bud]

250 trees with two guys and two spuds - about 2-3 hours of work. Putting on tree shelters will be an all day chore.

You will want to get some 5 gal buckets to put the trees into with some water. Put about 30 trees in each bucket and let them suck up water for about 10-60 minutes before planting.

Mow the grass down tight and round it up. Later when the grass sprouts back to 2-3", get a grass killer like Poast or Poast plus (sethoxidim) and spot spray around the trees in a 3' circle. Use tree shelters to keep the deer out. If you do anything with the soil, weeds will sprout and choke the trees out.

By the way, the deer love to rub the shelters, rub the trees, eat the buds etc. I have 200 black walnut bushes that are 10 years old and 3' tall. Would have been trees, but the deer eat the buds about this time of year and they sprout into bushes. Naturally, in the fall the bucks rub the extra branches to death so in spring it's a 2' bush again. Oh, and they only do it after dark so I can't even return the favor and chow on them!

I know for planting 2+3 year old white pine one person can do 1000 trees in a weekend with 2 buckets & 1 shovel. (pass the ibuprofin)

Around here, deer kill more trees than anything else. 250 can be munched to death in an evening by 4-5 deer - no sweat.

jb

 

[AceDeuce]

Thanks for the advice. I only get a 1-2 chances a year to head up North and visit the property so anything I do will have to be fairly self-sustaining, hence all the careful planning. I know some species don't like their feet wet, so I've picked an area that is fairly well drained. The property gets a lot of lake-effect weather so even high spots should get plenty of water, unlike here in VA where everything died last year during the worst drought in decades.

I've been debating about tree spacing... I want the trees to grow straight and natrually prune themselves but I don't want too much competition. All I need room for is a 5' bushog. I've been thinking about 9' equidistant spacing in a "diamond" pattern [vs. a square grid] to maximize acreage utilization. Any thoughts?

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

great thread with lots of good info...

i'm hopint to settle up on this 40 acres...

we've beening thinking of planting some walnut, oak, maple and cherry (all for the kids)

maybe some ginseng, mushrooms and anthing else for us.....

keep the good info coming and post your findings.....

 

[AceDeuce]

I'll post some pictures afterwards.

 

[hayden]

You will need to pick your species carefully. If you are planting in an open field, only shade intollerant species will grow. These are typically refered to a Pioneer species sinc ethey are teh first to take hold in abandoned fields. Once you have an established forest, you can start to grow shade tollerant trees like sugar maple, but that will be 20-40 years from now.

There are two books that I highly recommend. The first is "Common Sense Forestry" by Hans Morsbach. It's very readable with lots of practical advise from a guy who's done just what you are planning to do. Little things like keeping the grass back long enough for the trees to out-grow the grass can prove very difficult.

Another is "Working with your Woodland" by Beattie, Thompson, and Levine. It more scientific and written by professional foresters, but is still very readable.