Any Pilots On Here??

[Old Red]

Okay, so a friend (more of an acquaintance) of mine got his pilots license. He first started with a Cherokee 180 which he still owns. He also bought a Piper 6-300. He put instruments equipment on the 180 and is learning to get is instrument license.

Anyway, none of that matter except in speaking with him it has peaked my interest in getting my pilots license. Single Engine. Other than learning something new, my ultimate goal would be traveling with the wife and kid. For example. This weekend flying from Western KY up to St. Louis to watch the Cats play in the SEC basketball tourney. Of course the weather is going to be bad so that would be Trip #1 I couldn't do. And at this point in my life at age 43 where I am grinding day in and day out at work and vacation time.....the flexibility of a private single engine plane I don't have as much. That same friend went out to the Rodeo in Oklahoma and ended up having to rent a car to get back home, then fly commercially out the next weekend to retrieve his plane.

Anyway, those are just thoughts in my head I dumped out on this post. I would love to fly the wife and kid to the beach next weekend or to the smokey moutains. But maybe this isn't practical...maybe single engine aircraft is mostly just for getting up in the sky and flying around to get a 100 dollar cheeseburger in an airport an hour away or something.

So any pilots on here? What do you do? Please school me on anything you guys and gals know about situations like this. I know everyone on here probably knows at least one pilot.

Thanks! I hope to get some responses here from just regular joes like myself.

 

[Teachu2]

It's an expensive, demanding hobby. If you don't have a passion for flying, it's a poor investment. It requires lots of time and money for training, medical exams, and maintaining your license, and owning a plane is costly as well. If you are thinking of it as a flexible transportation option, it's about as practical as a sailboat.

I hung up my flying career long ago, after earning my license and owning a Cessna 210RG. When I decided to have a family, that put the final nail in my flying career. I'd spent enough time assisting in air searches and had enough lucky days that I decided the risks and costs involved were not compatible with family life.

Now that I'm approaching retirement, I sometimes get the itch to fly again. I run the numbers, look at the time commitment, sleep on it, and the itch goes away. If I were to fly again, it would be an aerobatic hotrod, strictly for fun, two seats in line.

 

[mjarrels]

Off shore power boat racing may be cheaper. Lots of hoops to jump threw to maintain a pilots license.

mark

 

[flingwing1969]

Off shore power boat racing may be cheaper. Lots of hoops to jump threw to maintain a pilots license.

mark

I second the other two comments. I hold a commercial rotorcraft and fixed wing license and was an instrument flight instructor in the army. I have not flown in years, largely because of a loss of interest in driving airplanes in the sky over non-combat zones is really not that entertaining (that passion thing) and also because the regulations are a PITA and the expense of owning a plane is high (you know the old saying about how to make a small fortune don't you, start with a large one and buy an airplane).

If you are looking at getting a license to fly occasionally on trips to watch games, etc. Why not get a license and make friends at a local FBO, get checked out in their birds and rent one when you want to take a trip.

 

[kcflhrc]

Always thought I wanted to do this also, but life got in the way. It cant be cheap, the training, the rental and on and on. Literally thousands of dollars I didn't have then or do I have now.

 

[Teachu2]

Occasional pilots tend to be occasionally bad pilots. Hard to stay at the top of your game unless you play often for several years. Ask JFK, Jr.

 

[plowhog]

You could go to a local airport and likely find a demo ride program for about $50 or less. It's designed to expose you to the many factors of flying, airplanes, and obtaining a pilot's license.

I've owned 5 airplanes-- two Cessna 172's, a Cessna 182RG, Piper Malibu and Beechcraft Baron (twin engine.) I flew the 182RG to the Arctic Circle and back just for fun.

It's a fun hobby and you might like it very much. Renting planes is much cheaper in the long run, but you have to watch out for something. If you take a rented plane on a trip, most rental places will have a "daily minimum" such as 3 hrs/day. So if you fly 3 hours to the beach on Saturday, stay a week, and 3 hours home the billing might be a *lot* more than 6 hours.

Most of my flying was done in connection with business-- traveling to make presentations and meet people and officials. After I retired from that I found I have few places I wanted to fly to, much preferring to take my motor home, etc. Having said that, if I owned a floatplane right now I would probably use it a lot. I am seaplane rated and it is a BLAST!!

There are also lower cost alternatives. If you look at the Sky Arrow (sort of an ultralight,) or light sport aircraft or lots of stuff like that. Cheapest plane I ever bought was $13,000 (1968 Cessna 172) and most expensive was $385,000 (1986 Piper Malibu.) btw I flew the Malibu coast to coast in just nine hours with only one stop for fuel. That's hustling for a single engine airplane.

 

[bunyip]

Let mine go about 20 years ago when eyesight was becoming a problem, had a twin engine unrestricted licence and flew a Piper Navajo.
They started to develop a reputation for falling out of the sky with quite a few crashes in a short space of time so that helped the cause a bit.
As stated it is an expensive pastime with lots of hoops to jump through every year and you get the potential to make a lot of friends who would love a free ride but never offer their services free.
I also have a yacht which is not as expensive but would rate a close second, I also had an ex wife who cost more than the two put together.

 

[RNeumann]

I was fortunate enough to fly private on a regular basis growing up. We used the company plane. One of the owners had his license and would also use the plane. The owner nearly killed himself (more than one occasion) and my dad (one occasion). After that we only used the professional pilot. While it added a bit to the cost we still enjoyed the independence of the plane.
I’m not talking you out of getting your license but getting a basic license is like getting a drivers license that only works on city streets. You are extremely limited and the temptation is to always push the limits with visibility etc. Plus aviation is something that requires constant practice- it’s not something you just hope in and do on a moment’s notice every so often.

 

[HillStreet]

I got my private pilot certificate 22 years ago at age 43. I bought a Cessna 172F 15 years ago.

It is expensive but I am an ordinary working-stiff that happened to be retired. You can justify it by saying that people own horses, play golf and sail boats. Notice that I did not mention jet skis, motorcycles, 4-wheelers and snowmobiles—-because they are cheap.

I will tell you that aviation offers a lot of friendship, fellowship, mentoring, learning, skills improvement. It is a positive environment that you could only wish your kids are able to have.

My airplane brings me almost everywhere I want to go. It isn’t fast but it is comfortable. When I fly I am in awe, every single time. Some things you see are breathtaking, you should fly along the coast to Florida at 3000 feet. I have regularly and routinely traveled from Maine to Florida, SC, NC, WV, OH IL, IN, GA, KY, MD, PA, AL, MI, WI, MN, DE, RI, MA, NH, VT, NY, CT with more to go.

Paperwork is no big deal. You can register your airplane on line for $5. You need a physical regularly from 6 months to 3 years depending on age and medical classification. The airplane needs an annual inspection every year. An annual can really determine your future in aviation—-you may go flying with no “squawks”, or have to take a partner to share costs, or selling the airplane at a potential loss, or just junking it. There are a lot of tough stories out there.

I hope to never give up flying, but I will relinquish my wings when the time comes. I suppose it’s about freedom, independence, thrills, challenge. It is all of those things and many more, it is hard to describe. This is the best thing I’ve done.

 

[MossRoad]

I never had a license. I grew up around airplanes. My best friend's father across the street was an aircraft salesman, and owned the local FBO at the airport. So I spent a lot of time in lots of different types of planes. Another good friend's father in grade school was also an aircraft salesman, and also owned an FBO in the next town north of here. And, our next door neighbors had no children, and owned their own plane. So I spent a LOT of time in small planes. I ended up working for both my friends' fathers for about 6 years. So I've spent a LOT of time around small planes, pilots, etc... until I was about 26. I loved to fly.

Here's what I'd suggest. As someone else mentioned, go take an introductory flight, and as mentioned, they are usually around $50. I just took my youngest daughter on one about 2 months ago. She loved it.

Here, we have a local flying club. They own two airplanes. And there are three active instructors. There are about 50 members of the club, I believe. You pay dues, pay your instructor, rent the plane(s) for instruction, etc... I think it's the least expensive way to learn to fly. And you can drop out anytime you decide it was just a fun fling, or you can continue. You can sign up to rent the planes and take them on local or cross-country flights.

It's something you may want to look into.

 

[Old Red]

This is fantastic guys. I have some more information to ad. At this point...for me anyway....would be that once I completed my training or while I was training and determined I really enjoyed flying...I would purchase my own airplane for just my wife, son and I. My intent would be to spend 50K - 100K on a plane....this is assuming I can get my investment back or a majority of it back...sort of like the used tractors I have been buying and use for a few years and get my $$ back out of them....If owning a plane is like buying a new pickup truck and it loses a lot of value then forget it....I seriously doubt this is the case since it appears I will be buying a 1970-1975 year model plane.

So anyway....I would own my own plane. Would like to purchase it during training so I could train on the plane I would own. I absolutely love the looks of the big 6 seater my buddy has over the 4 seater but he assures me that if it weren't for possibly taking his mom, dad, and his family he would have been perfectly happy and content with the 180. He said it is much more economical and gets him there just about as fast. A lot of people love the Cessna 172 it appears.

So my plan to fly from KY to Florida is totally doable and enjoyable to do? Correct? What is the ongoing costs of say a Piper 180? Can I get a really nice one for $50 grand that my family would be comfortable flying to Florida in? I do really enjoy speed and efficiency but if you don't gain a lot and it costs twice as much, then why do it.

The twin engines look cool but I am sure that is again a whole other category.

 

[PILOON]

I was a lucky one.
First plane was a Piper J3 and I earned my ticket on it. Upgraded to a Luscombe which I sold after one hr of flight time simply because I doubled my investment
Decided the ideal was a C170B on which I put many hours. I convinced my employers that I could cover my sales territory much more efficiently if I used my plane and they agreed.
That was back during expo in Montreal.
As I flew around my territory I probably introduced many dozens of clients to flying to the point that due to word of mouth I'd get requests for first flights from potential clients that I never could otherwise crack.
Sales were great.
A friend that was a aviation mechanic proposed to trade me even a C182 as he had a client that had his eye on my 170 as it took floats.
With that 182 I flew to Florida quite a few times and crossed Canada as well.
All in all I accumulated over 4000 hours and only crashed once, LOL as my crankshaft broke into 2 at 5000ft over a nice long farm field.
Being mechanically inclined I rebuilt that AC in my garage and hence earned my A&P ticket as I also had a RCAF trade in electricity as a 'summer job' and that combination qualified me for a ticket once I passed the tests.

If you have a somewhat flexible timetable and plan well, private aircraft is a practical transportation tool, or was so.
Purchase and ownership costs have however climbed dramatically since I stopped flying.
That C182 used 12 gals/hr of gas so it no longer a cheap hobby and todays regulations mandate all sorts of costly electronics that did not even exist back then.

With all my hours I only twice had to take a hotel due to weather, but as I said I selected my travel times carefully.

 

[feasant]

homebuilt/experimental

 

[rustyshakelford]

My fil is retired military and flys for a large commercial air carrier now. He bought a Cessna 210 with glass cockpit. Avionics were an easy 60k up grade. I’m wanting to get my private licesne and have been going with him every chance I get to get practice. FAA minimum is 40 hrs but nearly everyone goes over that. I’m hoping I’ll be comfortable enough that I’ll only need 40hrs since I’m already taking off and landing. He’s been working with me on instrument so that will be the next step once I get experience at the private level. I enjoy it but will say I don’t take my wife and son just yet. I have all the confidence in the world in my fil but would prefer to leave them on the ground

Brett

 

[plowhog]

My experience has been that a prudent, cautious pilot can mitigate almost all risks associated with flying except one. An engine failure shortly after liftoff in a single engine airplane means you will be contacting the ground soon and with few choices about where that contact will be. I always accepted that risk as very small, and it never happened to me. All other risks can be managed to some degree. I was instrument rated but still would cancel flights if I didn't like the weather. Risk management.

From Western KY to Pensacola, FL appears to be about 500 statute miles. Or about 425 nautical miles. I don't remember the exact specs, but that range, needing about 4 hours, I think is pushing beyond the useful range of a Cessna 172 without a stop for more fuel. Add a stop for fuel and that trip to the beach might require 5 hours.

My Cessna 182RG would be will suited to the task. 155 kts, 88 gals on board, and 13 gallons/hr means the trip would take under 3 hours, no fuel stop, and still have half a tank of fuel in case you wanted to divert to somewhere else due to weather. Beach locations are notorious for fog so a diversion is always possible.

I would check out the insurance angle as well. My insurance on the 182 was under $1,500 per year, the Malibu and Beech B55 twin were each $6,000 per year. That's a lot for purely hobby flying.

Finally, I would investigate a local flying club that owns an airplane. Planes need to be flown regularly as sitting on the ground for long periods causes things to break. It's counter-intuitive but true. I got to the point of dreading having to go to the airport to "warm up my engines" when I was quite busy doing other things and didn't really need to fly anywhere.

It is good you are asking questions and I would not be discouraged by the costs or alarmist responses here. Although expensive, there are many very wonderful opportunities with aviation, not to mention the mental challenges of learning something new with the pride of accomplishing it. You might visit aopa.org and look at membership.

I don't have an airplane now but still have a license and medical certificate. If I got back into aviation it might be with an Icon A5 or one of these:

Progressive Aerodyne Searey (@seareyaircraft) Instagram photos and videos

 

[orezok]

A little humor here... I have both a single engine and a glider rating. When I fly commercial I always stop by the cockpit and let the pilot know that if he loses one or both engines that I can help him out :laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[Teachu2]

Don't be discouraged, but do be informed. Take some time to browse the NTSB's website.

By the time I graduated college, I had logged quite a bit of time. A close friend and classmate's father was a dentist in the nearby town of Tracy, and was pretty well off - enough to pursue his love of flying. He owned a beautiful Piper PA-28R. He liked to take the wife and kids to Tahoe for a day or two, when time allowed. On January 12, 1984, the good dentist loaded up the Piper with his wife daughter (son had other commitment and was staying home) and decided to take off in fog, climb out of it, and fly to Tahoe. They flew into the ground 200 yards off the end of the runway. A few days later, I was a pallbearer.

The NTSB:
Analysis
THE FLIGHT DEPARTED UNDER INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS, WITH
VISIBILITY RESTRICTED TO ONE QUARTER MILE BY FOG. THE CEILING WAS OBSCURED.
AFTER DEPARTURE WITNESSES HEARD THE AIRCRAFT MAKE WHAT APPEARED TO BE A
LEFT TURN. NEXT THEY HEARD THE ENGINE SOUND INCREASE FOLLOWED BY A LOUD
THUD. THE ACFT WAS FOUND WHERE IT HAD IMPACTED AN EMBANKMENT, NEXT TO A
ROAD ON RELATIVELY LEVEL TERRAIN, APPROXIMATELY 1/8 MI FROM THE DEPARTURE
END OF RWY 25. NO EYEWITNESSES TO THE ACCIDENT COULD BE LOCATED. AN
INVESTIGATION REVEALED THAT THE PLT HAD CALLED THE SACRAMENTO FSS BY
TELEPHONE. AT 0771, HE OBTAINED AN IFR CLEARANCE WITH A VOID TIME OF 0730.
THERE WERE NO FURTHER COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN THE PLT & THE FSS. BEFORE
TAKEOFF, THE ACFT WAS PARKED ABOUT 2 MIN TAXI TIME FROM RWY 25. ACCORDING TO
THE FAA INSTRUMENT FLYING HANDBOOK, AC 61-27B, 5 MIN IS NEEDED FOR GYRO
INSTRUMENTS TO BE OPERATIONAL. HOWEVER, THE ACTUAL TIME ALLOWED BY THE PLT
(FOR THE INSTRUMENTS TO BECOME OPERATIONAL) IS NOT KNOWN.

Mistakes can be disasters very quickly in small planes. Even the most experienced pilots can experience mechanical failure, metal fatigue, or mental fatigue. Pressure to perform for our significant others can alter our judgement - we feel like failures if we abort our plan, when we promised. Incidents we live through are usually expensive. Those we don't live through....

It's not like driving a car - we don't generally have nearly as much experience, we're dealing with three dimensions and lots more variables, and it's much harder to walk away from an accident.

MINDSET-SKILLSET-TOOLSET, in that order.

 

[MossRoad]

This is fantastic guys. I have some more information to ad. At this point...for me anyway....would be that once I completed my training or while I was training and determined I really enjoyed flying...I would purchase my own airplane for just my wife, son and I. My intent would be to spend 50K - 100K on a plane....this is assuming I can get my investment back or a majority of it back...sort of like the used tractors I have been buying and use for a few years and get my $$ back out of them....If owning a plane is like buying a new pickup truck and it loses a lot of value then forget it....I seriously doubt this is the case since it appears I will be buying a 1970-1975 year model plane.

So anyway....I would own my own plane. Would like to purchase it during training so I could train on the plane I would own. I absolutely love the looks of the big 6 seater my buddy has over the 4 seater but he assures me that if it weren't for possibly taking his mom, dad, and his family he would have been perfectly happy and content with the 180. He said it is much more economical and gets him there just about as fast. A lot of people love the Cessna 172 it appears.

So my plan to fly from KY to Florida is totally doable and enjoyable to do? Correct? What is the ongoing costs of say a Piper 180? Can I get a really nice one for $50 grand that my family would be comfortable flying to Florida in? I do really enjoy speed and efficiency but if you don't gain a lot and it costs twice as much, then why do it.

The twin engines look cool but I am sure that is again a whole other category.

If you're going to own your own plane, be sure to be VERY diligent about knowing the cost of ownership and how many hours you'll have to fly per year to stay current in that plane. Inspections, hangar rental, tie-down, etc... it all ads up for something you may only use once or twice a year to save what? It takes me 18 hours to drive from here to the middle of FL. It takes about 5 hours to get half-way into Kentucky. So, about 13 hours driving from KY to FL. If you're lucky it'll take you 6 hours in the plane with a stop on the way. So you're saving 7 hours. But you're going to be spending WAY more money on fuel, landing fees, parking fees, renting a car when you get there, etc...

Not trying to talk you out of it. Just be sure you know all the costs up front.