Another water heater question (calcium deposits)

[Richard]

I didn't want to intrude on the high eff. water heater thread.

I have calcium buildup where I am (well water) and currently do NOT have a softener installed although I've got stubs for one at a later date.

I put a new heater in maybe 1 1/2 years ago, 80 gal.

The other day I spent several hours at my father in laws changing his heating element and having other problems.

One of his issues and one of my issues with my original water heater is the buildup of the calcium on the bottom. There is no real easy way to get it out. My father in law handed me this stupid little 'scoop' that was more like a kitchen spoon with a round "1 teaspoon" type measureing cup on the end.

I know I've got buildup growing in mine and figured it's better if I try to clear it now now, before it blows my bottom heating element.

so... my question(s):

1. Is there some way I could dissolve the buildup? I was thinking of taking a gallon (5 gallons?) of vinegar and pouring it into the heater (with the output line closed) and simply let it stew in there over night.

I don't really care for the smell of vinnegar so I was thinking could I do the same thing with some CLR?

If not...is there something else I could use?

What my intent would be is, on a weekend night, prior to bed, drain tank down so I have access to upper heating element. Remove it and pour the 1 or 2 or 20 gallons of CLR or vinegar into water tank. Replace element, fill with water and turn on so it's heated.

HOPEFULLY in the morning I could install my hose on the drain and drain most of the remaining calcium out to my driveway.

It might be worth noting, when I bought the tank, the FIRST thing I did before I installed it was rip out the stupid little drain that it has and replaced it with a 3/4" pipe with a 3/4" gate valve on the end. Now I have a true 3/4" drain and not some stupid little microscopic drain that a single piece of calcium can clog

So, how might one dissolve the calcium in the tank over night?

 

[cowboy357]

I,ve got a filter before the water Heater . I remove the element & fill it with Bleach & run the hotwater inside at all outlets for a little bit . Then kill the Power & drain it like You said , once or twice to clear it .

The bleach helps clean all the lines as well . We have Really bad water with the calsium as well as fine sand in it & it dont smell so good either so the bleach smell dont bother Us .

I have to do it every 3 or 4 months also . We also have to buy bottled water for drinking & cooking . Might be time for a new well in Our case , But I doubt theres any good water in Our area. Best of luck with Your,s . Bob

 

[Richard]

When you say you have a filter do you mean a simple sediment filter?
If so, I've got one of those right after my pressure tank.

Are you suggesting the bleach will help dissolve the calcium?

I presume others have this problem...what happens here is the calcium grows on the heating elements (or so I think) and flakes off falling to the bottom. Over time it collects enough that it buries the lower element and it will soon short out.

That confounded 2" hole is the real problem. If they had a larger access hole where you could reach in and remove the stuff, it wouldn't be quite as bad. Trying to scoop 6" of sediment out using a teaspoon is not my way of thinking!

Let me rephrase the question a bit for others... Is there anything inherently wrong or dangerous by putting 1,2,45 gallons of vinegar or CLR into the tank and letting it attack the calcium overnight?

I'd think (forgetting about the smell) since you can run both of them through your coffee maker, they'd not be completely dangerous although I think you'd want to give things a good rinse after doing so.

Giving a tank 25 rinses in the morning has GOT to be worlds easier than trying to scoop all that junk through a 2" hole!!!

 

[cowboy357]

When you say you have a filter do you mean a simple sediment filter?
If so, I've got one of those right after my pressure tank.

Are you suggesting the bleach will help dissolve the calcium?

I presume others have this problem...what happens here is the calcium grows on the heating elements (or so I think) and flakes off falling to the bottom. Over time it collects enough that it buries the lower element and it will soon short out.

That confounded 2" hole is the real problem. If they had a larger access hole where you could reach in and remove the stuff, it wouldn't be quite as bad. Trying to scoop 6" of sediment out using a teaspoon is not my way of thinking!

Let me rephrase the question a bit for others... Is there anything inherently wrong or dangerous by putting 1,2,45 gallons of vinegar or CLR into the tank and letting it attack the calcium overnight?

I'd think (forgetting about the smell) since you can run both of them through your coffee maker, they'd not be completely dangerous although I think you'd want to give things a good rinse after doing so.

Giving a tank 25 rinses in the morning has GOT to be worlds easier than trying to scoop all that junk through a 2" hole!!!

Yes its a sediment filter Richard . I started doing this when I replaced the water heater with a new one.

The old one was 1/4 full of the buildup & the Bleach seems to work as I have very little in it when I drain it & it runs out through the hose . & I agree the Drain on the bottom is a joke. I wished I would have done what You did when I installed Mine.

I cant say wether the vinegar or CLR would work any better or even be safe for that matter . As I,ve never tried either . But the Bleach appears to work for Me . Hopefully some others will chime in. Best of luck . Bob

 

[Scooby074]

im another victim of hard water. THe CLR or vinegar idea sounds like it'll work, although i havent tried it.

I usually just pump out the tank then flush with water. It helps if you have a good brass valve installed instead of that plastic one that comes with the tank.

I suppose another option, that i havent tried, would be to pull the lower element and use a shop vac. Youd need to find some smaller nozzle to fit in the element hole, but it'd probably work.

I guess the only real soultion is to install a softener. We did, and it made a world of difference in the life of out heater.

 

[Richard]

I suppose another option, that i havent tried, would be to pull the lower element and use a shop vac. Youd need to find some smaller nozzle to fit in the element hole, but it'd probably work

I've tried the shopvac. Works better than nothing but with that 2" hole, is still a royal pain in the hiney.

 

[aczlan]

I've tried the shopvac. Works better than nothing but with that 2" hole, is still a royal pain in the hiney.

It might be worthwhile to make an adapter to go on the shopvac so that you can fit a 1" wand (perhaps make one from 1" PCV with the end cut at a slight angle to give you a bigger area to suck from) into the hole and wiggle it around as needed to clean up all the silt

Aaron Z

 

[kenmac]

FYI ,,, a water filter b-4 the water heater will only trap so much... As water is heated the lime ,, etc,, will seprate from the water & fall to the bottom of the tank... Only way to keep it from building up is to flush, flush , flush... Open the bottom drain. drain tank with cold water inlet off... Leave drain cock open... Open cold water inlet ... This brings cold water in at the bottom of the tank & will loosen the build up it it hasn't been allowed to build up for a long time.... Again,, flush, flush.... Bad water ???? flush every 2-3- etc, months

 

[Richard]

It might be worthwhile to make an adapter to go on the shopvac so that you can fit a 1" wand (perhaps make one from 1" PCV with the end cut at a slight angle to give you a bigger area to suck from) into the hole and wiggle it around as needed to clean up all the silt

Aaron Z

I've actually done that. I have also bought another piece of cpvc? (forget, but more flexible)

I put a hose fitting on one end of it. I open my drain at the bottom (that has a 3/4" throughput hole, I remove my anode rod, open the drain and can use my hose with this attachement (5' long) to "spray" the stuff on the bottom and loosen it up.

I also took a 3/4" by 2' piece of pvc and cut half of it into a semi circle so I could get a scoopful out at a time.

it's such a pain in the hiney dealing with these things. We've finished most of the remodel and after some more dust settles i'll probably end up getting a softener. It's the right answer to many of our issues. Just have to wait until I'm back on good footing with Mr. Budget.

 

[browns40]

Phosphoric Acid; commercial steam table/dishwasher de-limer & scaler...
Might need to do a couple soak & flushes the first time, but have a regular schedule of use after (depending on your water), and it shouldn't build up.

Don't forget to check the anode when you have it drained.

Good luck!

 

[SPIKER]

the calcium was very bad at the last place, we had an outside door to the basement so would disconnect the water heater, (Gas) and take it outside and turn it on it's side and flush with garden hose, after making sure the stuff was loosened up first. never tried the CLR/vinegar though it might work well... We used a small 1/4" NPT pipe on end of the hose and that went in through the top. while it sat on it's side with the removed drain valve opening down would have to keep moving it from the buildup of the lie/calcium would cover the hole up as it ran out...
I drain my one at our farm house spring & fall now it has rusty water but somewhat soft as there is little to no buildup ever coming out, it is electric one at the farm.
mark

 

[Pilot]

In Montana we had so much calcium buildup that every 3 months we had to clean out our water heater, same way you do it, with a scoop thru the bottom element hole. If we didn't clean it, by the 4th month we would lose our bottom element.

Before you try the vinegar or anything else, take a look at your shower heads and test the vinegar on them if they have any buildup--it's the same stuff. I have used various commercial chemicals as well as vinegar on our shower heads and nothing works except to use a pin and break it free while watching the boobtube in the evening.

BTW, we recently changed our 17 year old water heater. When the plumber removed it, he drained it onto the lawn. Probably half a gallon of calcium came out. Before I cleaned it up, it rained. We now have a 2 ft. diameter dead zone from the huge increase in calcium and reduction in pH, I presume.

 

[Egon]

I believe Phosphoric Acid does a good job of removing calcium?

 

[Richard]

I believe Phosphoric Acid does a good job of removing calcium?

If true, is that something that I could put into my 80 gal tank and let it dissolve some/most of my calcium that I could then flush out?

Will it also want to eat the skin off my body?

(I'm beginning to see the start of a very low budget horror film here )

 

[Egon]

If true, is that something that I could put into my 80 gal tank and let it dissolve some/most of my calcium that I could then flush out?

It will attack you. Protective equipment would be required.

As to how well it will work I cannot say but it may be one of the ingredients in the products you see advertised for removing calcium stains and cleaning shower heads.

You must be aware that the acid may come in different concentrations and it may react with the metal of the tank.

You could check it out by using a little on some of the scale that has been knocked out of the tank.

Phosphoric acid is used as a cleaner by construction trades to remove mineral deposits, cementitious smears, and hard water stains. It is also used as a chelant in some household cleaners aimed at similar cleaning tasks.

Phosphoric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[J_J]

I would first scoop out some of the calcium in the tank and put it in three or four glasses. Then add different ratios of vinegar to calcium in each glass, and wait 24 hr. If you find a ratio that works for you, estimate the volume in the tank and add vinegar, and let sit 24 hrs. You; may be able to flush it out just by turning on the cold water and flush until clear or the smell is gone.

Option two. Try a pressure washer at low psi, with bent shaft to break up the vinegar and calcium and flush out .

If it is a glass lined tank, maybe stronger chemicals would work, but be sure to rinse and flush real good.

Try not to damage the glass lining.

There is also an acid that is added to swimming pools . Can not remember the name at the moment, that might work also. FLASH, Just remember the name, it is Muriatic acid.

 

[TUG HILL ADDICT]

Does your heater allow for the installation of anode rods?

Here is some info:

Water heater Anode Rods