And I thought the Purolator filter was small.....

[3930dave]

I've always considered this filtration issue to be pretty simple - along the lines of "What would you rather have in your bank account, more money, or less money ?".

So, I didn't post this to convince anybody to use a larger filter. Many people would be better served just getting an approved "small" filter, and doing the oil change on time, as OCI's often get stretched out, for the wrong reasons. The example I posted about happens to have a larger "approved" PN available, from a well regarded manufacturer.

I agree that somebody will low mechanical aptitude/common sense should NOT be trying to sub in a larger (non-approved) filter on their own, as that is just asking for trouble.

I'm pretty clear on why some manufacturers are fans of de-contenting filters.

I'm (way) less clear why some end-users are though.

Until someone answers my:

"Using a larger, higher capacity oil filter creates __________________________ problems ?"

question with solid technical reasoning, I'll comfortably remain in the Size Does Matter camp. It matters to me; You - your call.

Whatever you use........ Long May You Run :thumbsup: ........ (meant seriously, not sarcastically).

Rgds, D.

 

[sixdogs]

I used to swap around all kinds of filters and cross-reference everything. I can't remember the "Master Book" --maybe Fram--I used but it would list the bypass or relief pressures of filters and well as check valves or anti flowback valves or whatever. Measurements of filter as well. It's been 10 years so I forget the terminology but not all filters that appeared to be equal had the same pressure reliefs and other features.

What I learned was to check stuff out before you accept what a lube shop or parts guy says. Today, I go with factory filters for most everything and take the worry about of being close.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think about any filter that is the right PN for your vehicle will work just fine as long as you stick with the recommended oil change interval and not do like DiamondPilot's brother in law (see other posted thread) and run 68K miles between changing oil filter or air filter. Properly serviced and use of good quality oil and there wont be a lot of filtration to be done anyway.
As for relief pressure, there should never be a reason for a filter to go into relief when oil is changed regularly, and by that I dont mean regularly at every Feb 29th.

 

[crazyal]

I hate to say it but size of the filter is not a very good way to judge how well a filter will work. Toyota filters use a much more complicated folds so they get more filtration media inside the small filters. I personally thought they did this so they had more room inside the engine bay. The filter also could have a check valve and over pressure valve inside of it. One of the simplest things you can do is cut a filter apart to see how it's made and how much surface area it has.

 

[3930dave]

6dogs, Gary, Al - we all think along the same lines, no arguments there.

Looking at 2 mainstream large can filters, verified for the application, and one smaller Penzzoil one that came off the car, I started this thread under the mistaken impression that what I was looking at was sloppy service.

I have cross referenced my own filters, for one specific application, but I wasn't intending for the thread to drift over to that area. For the obsessive compulsive filter guys (me included), that type of discussion is more appropriate over at BITOG.

I knew that some vehicle manufacturers had retroactively down sized their oil filters (I recall JDGreen talking about this on his GM), but I had never come across it with my vehicles to date.

Al - agreed - Filter Media total area and type are separate parameters from can size. As you probably know, those dissections (new, and used) are done and posted over at BITOG, and other sites. Didn't want to introduce those complications here, as that is beyond what many people care to assess.

Per Gary's point - consistent basic maintenance is what matters the most, long term.

Thinking about this thread has reminded me of the outdoor climate that I live in. On this 2000, Honda considers Canada to be automatically Severe Service. As discussed, that means they want the oil filter changed at 6,000 km, versus 15,000 miles in the USA.

Pretty huge difference, and if you've only lived in a Temperate zone, gives you a good idea of how beat up motor oil gets here in Canada. Contending with this environment, I've always tried to get the best filter I can get my hands on, at a reasonable price.

In recent years, I've settled on Pure One, and will be using those on this Civic as well.

Most major filter manufacturers have their filter specs online today. If the Pure Ones that I use were downsized dramatically, I'd be clicking away on the Bosch, Donaldson, etc websites pretty quickly. (Yes, really chasing media area, not just can size.)

Rgds, D.

 

[timswi]

I think about any filter that is the right PN for your vehicle will work just fine as long as you stick with the recommended oil change interval and not do like DiamondPilot's brother in law (see other posted thread) and run 68K miles between changing oil filter or air filter. Properly serviced and use of good quality oil and there wont be a lot of filtration to be done anyway.
As for relief pressure, there should never be a reason for a filter to go into relief when oil is changed regularly, and by that I dont mean regularly at every Feb 29th.

When I worked for Honda a customer had a lube place filter with no relief...Car was generally well maintained...He pulled out of his driveway with a stone cold motor on a very cold day...The wheels spun on the hill and the filter blew off and took the motor with it due to the lack of bypass (coinfirmed by honda engineering) Bypasses do serve other purposes.

The lube chain ended up buying him a new motor with labor.

 

[3930dave]

When I worked for Honda a customer had a lube place filter with no relief...Car was generally well maintained...He pulled out of his driveway with a stone cold motor on a very cold day...The wheels spun on the hill and the filter blew off and took the motor with it due to the lack of bypass (coinfirmed by honda engineering) Bypasses do serve other purposes.

The lube chain ended up buying him a new motor with labor.

Bypass with cold oil happens more often than most people realize. You don't need -40 to get into bypass at startup.

Normal operation should be that the filter comes out of bypass, as the oil warms up.

Rgds, D.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I hate to say it but size of the filter is not a very good way to judge how well a filter will work. Toyota filters use a much more complicated folds so they get more filtration media inside the small filters. I personally thought they did this so they had more room inside the engine bay. The filter also could have a check valve and over pressure valve inside of it. One of the simplest things you can do is cut a filter apart to see how it's made and how much surface area it has.

You are right. My Nissan uses what appears to be a small filter just like my Civic but both have nearly as much media as larger filters used on domestic brands.

Also remrmber, good air filtering is more important in my opinion since a engine is really just a air pump. Dirty air in will wear it out quicker than anything.

Chris

 

[MrChris]

If a smaller filter is still able to filter properly, I would think the advantage to be more oil in the engine at all times.

 

[3930dave]

You are right. My Nissan uses what appears to be a small filter just like my Civic but both have nearly as much media as larger filters used on domestic brands.
Chris

Chris - in terms of media, did you crack 'em open and roll them out, or was that based on estimating drained weight ?

(I trust your assessment, either way).

When you say Nissan, I'm thinking big pickup.

Rgds, D.