American made tractor?

5030 · Jan 27, 2004

AndyM:

Bush bites. I didn't say Busch Lite either.

JTC · Jan 27, 2004

Kyle_in_Tex,

Walmart is our largest customer. They are tough, but reasonable. We have other large customers who are tough and unreasonable. It's just a normal part of business to know when to tactfully tell a customer that your sorry but you can not accommodate their demand.

The company I work for has 27 manufacturing facilities world wide, 6 in the USA, but I deal primarily with our contract manufactures in China. The only facilities that we've closed in the last 4 years have been in France and Germany due to decreasing efficiency and increasing costs. My personal philosophy is to work every day like my job depends on it. Unfortunately, not everyone shares this view. I have empathy for people who have been laid-off, but the "laws" of economics are as strong as gravity. Protectionism just doesn't work in the long term.

Jim

Soundguy · Jan 27, 2004

( someone usually takes over the company who doesn't understand the original mission of the company. ..ways to cuts costs.... and they eventually move production off shore )

Ford>>>>>New Holland? Just took a few years..

Soundguy

5030 · Jan 27, 2004

Soundguy:

Ford>>>>>NH>>>>>Fiat>>>>>>broke!!!!>>>divestiture

Here is another one:

Republic Steel>>>>>LTV>>>>bankruptcy>>>>ISG

How about this:

American made>>>>foreign made>>>>outsourced>>>>Harley Davison!!!

Nice flow charts, yes???

Bob_Skurka · Jan 27, 2004

Regarding American Steel. I live just south of one of the largest steel producing regions in this country. In the 70's & 80's we had something close to 250,000 people employed nationally making about 80 millions tons of steel each year. Today we the numbers have reversed. We make over 200 million tons of steel in the USA today, but now it only takes about 78,000 employees to do it. Those jobs are not shipped overseas. We are still making the steel. In fact we are making better steel, faster and more efficiently.

President Bush, and his relaxing of the steel quotas/teriffs helped keep a lot of people who ASSEMBLE things made out of steel employed. Steel workers are not being layed off because the quotas/teriffs were relaxed, those guys lost their jobs long ago because of inefficiencies in the system that were removed. That is how we make so much more steel with fewer employees. Our steel would be double the price if we still had 200,000+ steel workers and that would make our steel TOTALLY uncompetitive and then the 70,000+ steel producers we have now would be unemployed. We need competition to keep us competitive, which keeps us employed.

AndyM · Jan 27, 2004

( AndyM:

Bush bites. I didn't say Busch Lite either. )

Daryl,
I try to stay away from catagorized partisan politics. I never registered with either political party until the 2000 primary to vote for McCain (or against Bush, which ever way you want to look at it). Since I haven't voted in a primary since, I still don't put myself in a catagory.

I feel he had a difficult desicion to make about the steel tariffs, and I wish it would have been the other way around. I know American steel is how you make your living and it effects many, many people in this area. The company I work for is a large plastics company, and much of our work has been outsourced to China over the past few years. I blame the current president AND the fellow before him for allowing it to happen like this.

I don't like Bush. I don't particularly care for any of the Democratic contenders either. I'm kind of stuck on what to do on this one, but I also don't want to get a political feud going here on TBN...

MikePA · Jan 27, 2004

but I also don't want to get a political feud going here on TBN... 
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kyle_in_Tex · Jan 27, 2004

(
Your theory that Wal Mart will make you move the plant overseas is simply wrong. The consumers who buy from Wal Mart are the ones who force cheaper prices, and that forces manufacturers to move their plants overseas.
)

Bob, I'm not trying to start a war here but if you read your own writing, you made the connection yourself.

Walmart=cheap consumers=overseas production

Maybe Walmart doesn't actually say "You have to move your facility overseas" but they do say, "We want your product at a cheaper price or we'll go to another vendor"

This is a natural ebb and flow of purchasing and supplying goods.

I like cheap prices too, but I try to buy American when I can.

It's not Walmart's problem,(although they do conduct ventures like a bull in the china shop.)

It's America's problem...And I'm hoping that somehow a solution can come soon. Otherwise, we will endure some pretty drastic changes in the future if our ability to manufacture slowly bleeds away.

yellowsocks93 · Jan 27, 2004

We as consumers do have one very lethal weapon: Stop buying products we don't like. This will tell the companies we need to build our products here. I know a lot of stuff is made from parts all over the world but if we stop buying the companies will be forced to change. Just a thought since our economy works this way.

Old_Hickory · Jan 27, 2004

( but now it only takes about 78,000 employees to do it )
Excellent point efficiency. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Plastic has replaced steel in a lot of places too thus reducing the demand for some steel (some). /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

5030 · Jan 27, 2004

Mike:

Sorry, I got carried away. Peace. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Old_Hickory · Jan 28, 2004

( Peace )

Peace man...I bet you are an old hippie from the 1960's. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Bob_Skurka · Jan 28, 2004

Kyle

I disagree again. CONSUMERS vote for cheap goods by choosing to shop at Wal-Mart and many other retailers. The consumer is the one forcing the ever lower prices, not the retailer. The retailer is simply the channel from which the consumer buys the goods. IF the retailer wants to remain in business he must buy from the low cost supplier and he must work on low margins. IF the retailer buys higher priced goods and puts them next to lower priced goods on teh shelf, the higher priced goods sit on the shelf. The fundamental issue is that we all want to get the cheapest price we can. In doing this, WE, as CONSUMERS, are driving the manufacturing plants in many industries over seas.

Further, we are now doing it with service. I would like you to call CIRCUIT CITY to order a new VCR. Don't go to the store. Just call their phone number. You will be connected to somebody in INDIA. The call center for Circuit City is in INDIA, half way around the world. And if you want computer programming done, you don't have to go to California's Silicone Valley, again you go to India, or to the Ukraine, or to Australia, or to Asia.

So it is not just manufacturing jobs, it is low paid service jobs like phone centers, and high paid technology jobs like computer programming.

How many people buy implements for their tractor from HOMIER? Or buy Jimna tractors? Why? Simple answer : PRICE. If they cared about an American worker they would pay more and get something that is AT LEAST an American owned company's product that is AT LEAST partially assembled here using SOME parts made here.

John Deere would have gone out of business long ago if they produced everything here. Ditto Catepillar. Ditto every multinational company on the planet.

fivestring · Jan 28, 2004

"Stop buying products we don't like. This will tell the companies we need to build our products here." 

I like the idea, but in reality, it won't work.

Good example.....

I don't like my Brand X clock radio. Because it is made overseas, I decide that I will only buy an American-made clock radio. After 3 months of shopping, I still haven't found an American-made clock radio Now what do I do? I need a clock radio!
Since most clock radios are about $10 - $30, that's all I'm willing to spend. I finally find an American-made clock radio for $60.
Now, why would I pay $60 for an item when I can find a perfectly good alternative for $10 - $30?
In reality, though.... I doubt there are any American-made clock radios. American companies can not build one for less than foreign companies.

That is the problem in a nutshell.
That is the reason Walmart, Roses, Kmart, Sam's, BJ's, Costco, etc. thrive. They too, want the cheapest item for the money because that IS what their customers want.

rockyridgefarm · Jan 28, 2004

you don't have to go to California's Silicone Valley 

But it sure is, um, purdy there.... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

or did you mean Silicon Valley...

Bob_Skurka · Jan 28, 2004

Rockyridge . . . I was not INTENTIONALLY referring to "blouse bunnies" but since we seem to be drifting in and out of topic on the thread maybe we could start a Natural vs. Enhanced thread? Because from what I can tell, most of the enhanced models are in fact, American Made!

MossRoad · Jan 28, 2004

Probably best to stick to the tractors /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

virgil · Jan 28, 2004

I have 2 (TWO) tractors setting on my lot that are what I call made in America. Other than the tires, they are original. one is a 50 year old Ford 9N and the other is a little younger Ford 8N.
What I call "made in America" does not exist and has not existed for a few decads.

yellowsocks93 · Jan 28, 2004

Well, if you did buy the clock radio for 60 bucks this would tell the companies we like American radios over their foreign counterparts. The way our economy works is by us the consumers buying products and this then tells the companies that we like those products. Why so many McDonalds? We told McDonalds to build more stores because we bought the product. I agree with you that most people would probably buy the cheaper of the two radios if it came down to the cost factor.

Kyle_in_Tex · Jan 28, 2004

Bob,
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. But everybody's opinion is what makes this board so neat.
I got the Homier full color 4 page insert in the local paper last month. I scoured each and every page for deals after reading so much about it here on the board. With much anticipation, my buddies and I headed to the "big show". I rummaged through everything looking for a deal. Found a set of drill bits that seemed to be a great deal. Waited in line for 15 minutes to check out. Cashier says "Sir, those must have been on the wrong shelf". They were over twice as high as supposedly marked. I said " you can keep them". Almost everything else was "cheap stuff". The tractor had a backhoe that was bent. The finish mowers were all rusty like they had been soaked in salt water. I still enjoyed looking but I didn't end up buying anything.
If the Chinese ever figure out the quality factor and keep prices low, then I guess that will really seal our fate. That is unless we can talk the Pacific coast dockworkers into another strike like last year's. I got a kick out of that. Funny how an unseamingly important small "kink" can interrupt the system.