American made tractor?

SPIKER · Jan 26, 2004

Hi all:

I like the thread but the thing is that most of everything that is manufactured is going to have forgien content some place, like others said it is HOW MUCH that makes a diff. I buy a lot of china made stuff too, but if I want the best tools, then i buy craftsmen. If i'm oing to use ti 2 times and not use it again for 10 years, then china stuff is OK. as for tractors, I bought a china made one, because it was all I could afford. it is great little machine works hard and hasn't broken down on me. anyhwo

I'm in OHIO. and here we have lost TONS of manufactureing jobs. and where did they go? to Mexico, brazil, indonisia. ect. the CEO's there make more than they do here ! you know why!? they are same CEO's that were here, but now the company can pay then 2 times as much because the manufacturing process is SO MUCH CHEAPER, like others said, not just hourly workers wages, but facts that they can manufacture with out epa, osha workers comp stuff too.! ok now they lower the price just about 1% so everyone buys it faster, and they are making 50% more profit, where does it go? into CEO's and other big paying peps pockets...

here in OHIO, the gov, (TAFT not that great but at least he wants to run for pres and repeal NAFTA) which will at least help pay for the government to fix up IRAC after we removed teh dictator!

so lets RAISE taxes on the US workers and COMPANIES, let forgien copmanies and the old us companies who went overseas to send in all the trade they can free, that way we can send MORE money over to the rich oil countries! ARGGG,

(needlsess to say I'm WAY aginst sending more $ ovver there, when WE don't get anything in return! (they say security?) hell with that for 80 billion I'm sure we can stop every terrost from comming in and ceap the $ HERE!) ya I sound like an anti bush, but I'm not, I'm anti sending money over there! I even voted for bush becasue what was the OTHER CHOICE? the same idiots who put NAFTA INTO PLACE!? I don't think so!

ok off my soap box which was made in china, shipped over here costing pennies and assembeled in mexico then shipped FREE across the boarder costing more american soap box makers jobs! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Mark :evil:

art · Jan 26, 2004

I normally go the American route and I'm proud to be one and I enjoy the privilege of being one. I do feel that when it comes to my money I want the best that I can get for a dollar and I enjoy knowing that I can do that here.

AndyM · Jan 26, 2004

( And Hummers.
And wear Brand H clothing.
Or wear Brand T boots.
Eat at the more expensive restaurants.....

There are a lot of people in this country that are about 2 paychecks away from bankruptcy. )

I listen to some people say that back in the 1950's and 1960's, that only one income was needed to support their family, and now things are so bad that both the husband and wife HAVE to work.

That would be true if they had the SAME standard of living they had then, but the 1000 square foot cape cod in the suburbs has given way to a 2900 square foot house in the new delvelopment just outside of town. Rather than eating out once every two weeks, fast food has become a staple of our daily lunches and eating out or take out food is a nightly part of our dinners. Instead of the basic 4 door family car (just one!) we have to have a new SUV for $40000, even though it's never going to be used in 4 wheel drive, and a new $30000 pickup truck, even though nothing will ever go into the bed. Add cable TV's, DVD's, internet access, and camera phones for everyone in the family!

Things aren't so bad that we NEED both husband and wife working to support the family. If families live at the same level of 40 or 50 years ago, only one spouse would need to work. We built our 1800 square foot house last year, and everyone keeps telling us it's a small house. I grew up in a family of four in a 900 square foot bungalow on a city lot, and didn't know we were crowded.

The simple fact is, people WANT more, and that is why husband and wife work. Then they get credit easily, wind up with a house bigger than they can afford and use one credit card to pay the other.

I may be as guilty as the next person, but the point is, we've become a greedy society, wanting more and more with less and less and we don't want to worry about the consequences later. This is true for BOTH families and corporations...

rtimgray · Jan 26, 2004

You've hit the nail on the head, Andy. A hearty "Amen" to everything you said.

There's two ways to be richer: make more or desire less.

higgy · Jan 26, 2004

IT would seem so. I'm going the other way. Down size (well i never upsized) be as self-sufficiant as I can, grow what I need and be good to the earth.

Disconnect, unplug and through out the phone, kept the net. Kids are getting used to the idea, and after the first shock, don't seem to care much. Off topic, but I wount be captive to STUFF!
Just to my farm!

shvl73 · Jan 26, 2004

I think Andy nailed precisely. People WANT alot, People THINK they need alot. They couldn't be further from the truth.

Bird · Jan 26, 2004

Reminds me of one of my college sociology courses and the theory of "relative deprivation". A lot of stuff we wouldn't even know existed or that we needed it if it weren't for TV, advertising, and "keeping up with the Joneses." /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Bob_Skurka · Jan 26, 2004

I think there is a big difference between WANT and NEED.

My parents had a telephone to communicate with the outside world. It cost about $30 a month. I have a phone. I have 2 cell phones. I have a satellite dish for my computer. Combined they cost me about $300 a month.

My parents had a car, they eventually got a second car. I started with 2 cars when I got married. Now I have 3 because I sold one recently. And a bunch of tractors. And some scooters. And there are only 2 people in my family who are old enough to drive! How much transportation do I need?

My parents had a beautiful home. They moved to a condo on the golf course. It was even nicer than the house, but still not too big. But when I built my house a few years ago it was 4000 square feet, and we have another 1500 square feet of patios. And then we added a pool, and a pool house, and deck, and more patio, and a pool house. I don't even go into most of the rooms of my house!!!

When I was a kid I played in cardboard boxes and built a tree house out of scrap wood. My daughter has a play house that has cathedral ceilings, electricity to power exterior & interior lights, 2 rooms (7' by 8' and 8' by 14') plus a sun deck. It has 7 windows and 2 custom made doors that are 5'5" tall. And it is landscaped!

I think we live in a world today when we raise expectations so high that we just keep wanting more. I have lots of STUFF, but I have come to realize that what I really want is TIME to enjoy simple things and I really think that I could be happier with LESS stuff and more relaxation. My wife quit her job as a high level corporate banker to become a high school teacher. I am trying to figure out how to quit my job and become a market farmer to sell produce on the weekends. Somehow I think it would be a much simpler life that would be more fullfilling.

AndyM · Jan 26, 2004

( There's two ways to be richer: make more or desire less. )

That quote really got to me.
I was sitting over dinner in deep thought, and my wife asked what I was thinking about. I told her I was trying to think of ways to simply life.

We, as a society, spend so much time complaining about such small things that no one really takes the time to reflect on how much we, as Americans, have been so greatly blessed. Many times I think we have much more than we deserve...

Bob_Skurka · Jan 26, 2004

AndyM I totally agree with what you just wrote. I was lucky enough to visit Eastern Europe when the cold war was still in full swing. You really want to know how lucky we are, go over there! We have SO MUCH here and we can't even figure out how to appreciate what we have. In most parts of the world there is no clean water or safe food. We take both for granted. Our health care system, while not cheap, is amazing. We bring back to life people here that would not even be treated in many parts of the civilized (western) world and we think it is common. Sure, our drugs cost more, but our doctors do more, and we take it for granted. How often do most Americans worry about heating their homes or other things as simple as that. I've been to places where people burn tires to keep their corrugated shanties warm and then die of the fumes.

There must be a better way for us to live. I'm not complaining about my beautiful home, I'm just complaining about the lifestyle that I have that got me that home. And I am not alone. I moved to the country to get a simpler life. That was a decade ago. I'm still trying to find it! And I know many who envy me; they would be amazed to learn I envy people with far less. And I think it is a **** shame that most of us are still chasing happieness.

del · Jan 26, 2004

I haven't read through the whole post yet, so my apologies
if someone has already posted this.

I call it WALMART!!AMERICA!!! yeah right...

Try not to throw up after you read it.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

scroll down past all the links to the main body of the article.

/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gifDE L/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

CMunger · Jan 27, 2004

I think most of the iron ore going to the Orient is coming from Australia, they have alot and cannot ship in to US because of tarrifs, so it is shipped there and the completed goods are brought here without tarrifs.
Chuck M.

yellowsocks93 · Jan 27, 2004

It's too bad we can't get our iron ore from here in MN. My grandpa as well as my uncles and mainly everybody on my mom's side were miners. Now all the mines are closing. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

JTC · Jan 27, 2004

Go Walmart!

This isn't directed to anyone in particular.

Can't blame them for being tough, shred, efficient businessmen. If it's any consolation, Walmart is working on doing to the rest of the world what they've done for the USA.

The distribution of labor is a basic principle of any macro-economic theory. It's as natural as water flowing downhill. Say you need landscaping work done. You get 3 bids. All other things being equal, you go with the lowest bid. If one of the contractors is your buddy, you can choose to subsidize him (at a cost to you) by paying him more then you would the lowest cost bidder. If all other things aren't equal i.e. quality, time, materials..., you can choose how much these factors are worth to you and make your decision accordingly. Millions of people vote with their pocket books everyday in buying Chinese products and shopping at Walmart.

As far as CEO's making zillions of dollars, kind of seems to me as a mighty powerful incentive to become a CEO. When I become "the man", I'll be one of those kind, benevolent leaders who is loved by all /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jim

Old_Hickory · Jan 27, 2004

( As far as CEO's making zillions of dollars, kind of seems to me as a mighty powerful incentive to become a CEO. When I become "the man", I'll be one of those kind, benevolent leaders who is loved by all )

Let me know when it happens and I will go to work for you. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kyle_in_Tex · Jan 27, 2004

What if,

1) you make it to be the CEO
2) you want to make zillions of $$$
3) Walmart is your biggest customer
4) they force you to move your plant/factory overseas for cheaper costs.

Do you think your laid off American workforce will still think of you as kind and benevolent? Or, were you just saying whatever needs to be said to "get to the top"???

fivestring · Jan 27, 2004

"With all that Tazewell history, what is your, or your relatives and friends, opinion of Power Trac and it's products???"

Uh.... they were coal miners. They died coal miners. They farmed with horses and mules. They made hay by hand. None of them ever owned a tractor, though sometimes they'd borrow one. My father left that area in '55 and moved to Columbus, Ohio. That's where I was born (actually, Mt. Vernon, OH) He swore he'd never work in the mines and he never did. He also swore he'd never live on a farm again due to the manual labor. He lives in the city.

I'm sure Power Trac will do fine there. I bet more than a few laid-off coal miners probably work for them.

AndyM.... good replies.

Bob_Skurka · Jan 27, 2004

Kyle_in_Tex

Your theory that Wal Mart will make you move the plant overseas is simply wrong. The consumers who buy from Wal Mart are the ones who force cheaper prices, and that forces manufacturers to move their plants overseas.

This is a HUGE distinction. Consumers are NOT willing to pay higher prices for American made TV sets, or VCRs, or T-shirts, or Vacuum Cleaners, or Toys, or Bikes, or Kitchen Gadgets, or Blue Jeans.

We as consumers are forcing manufacturing jobs to the lowest bidder. I am NOT a fan of Wal Mart and I do not shop there, however, it is absolutely wrong to say that retailers force companies to close American plants down and move jobs overseas, when the reality is we are forcing it as consumers who are not willing to pay extra for goods that are identical to those goods made overseas, but are cheaper.

AndyM · Jan 27, 2004

Hey Gary the banjo picker from Mount Vernon with the nice blue First Choice mower,

It's been my experience that companies like PowerTrac do quite well building American made, low volume quality products. There is a niche to fill of people who are looking for something like that and they are willing to pay a little extra for it.

That being said, someone usually takes over the company who doesn't understand the original mission of the company. They start looking for ways to build sales volume and profit, and in turn, ways to cuts costs. They end up eliminating the features that made people buy the product to begin with, and they eventually move production off shore to make the product more "profitable", therefore destroying the loyal clientel they had originally buying the product.

I'm just talking in general-- I'm not saying that would ever happen to PowerTrac, but it seems to happen to many companies who are dedicated to making a unique product, different from the other brands, and dedicated to it being American made.

AndyM · Jan 27, 2004

( "Thankyou Mr. Bush."

Imports began before Mr. Bush took office. )

President Bush had a difficult desicion when he had to repeal the tariffs on imported steel. The European Union was threatening tariffs on U.S. exports into their countries on several key products, not just U.S. steel.

Living here in the Mahoning Valley, where many steel companies have come and gone, and the ones who are left are hanging by a thread, this desicion affects a number of workers. While I don't necessarily agree with the President on this one (or a number of other things!), I sincerely believe he wouldn't have repealed the tariffs unless he had to (especially during an election year!).