Altavista and the 1850

[woodlandfarms]

Did not want to Hijack the other thread so am jumping it to this...

Altavista had written he was moving on from the PT because of dependability issues... My response...

Well Alta, that truly sucks. I would not in any way shape or form call my 1850 dependable either, but I was under the belief it was just mis-treated.

I don't have overheat issues, but I do stop every two hours and blow it out. I wanted to ask you how your mower was holding up? I am assuming the hog work you do is hard on the machine. I am trying to get a quote on replacing my blades with custom made hardened steel (maybe in 1/2") with a bit of a lift bent in...

I hope you don't sell, I look toward your advice and mods with daily anticipation.

Carl

 

[AltavistaLawn]

The problem is, I can't figure out why Im having so many unrelated failures. Blown hydraulic hoses, overheating, elictrical. Right now its leaking oil again. We just fixed a hose, I had just replaced the fitting on the accumulator asmbly, just before that. Today , had to send it and my crew leader home with it, it was pouring hyd fluid out of the valve with the spring in it, again;... all over a customers driveway.
He replaced th eo-ring again, I just went out to load it up for tomorrow, and its pouring fluid out again from the same box. I dont have time now to pull it back down, so I have to change the schedule for tomorrow to free up an hour first thing for me to pull it back down, and try another seal. Meanwhile, my end of month work isn't getting done, or customer follow ups on proposals I have in, or new proposal work I have to do. Not to mention the bush hog work I have lined up for the PT this week; which is supposed to be done before Friday.

Its a big problem, and I don't know what to do.

 

[Barryh]

The problem is, I can't figure out why Im having so many unrelated failures. Blown hydraulic hoses, overheating, elictrical. Right now its leaking oil again. We just fixed a hose, I had just replaced the fitting on the accumulator asmbly, just before that. Today , had to send it and my crew leader home with it, it was pouring hyd fluid out of the valve with the spring in it, again;... all over a customers driveway.
He replaced th eo-ring again, I just went out to load it up for tomorrow, and its pouring fluid out again from the same box. I dont have time now to pull it back down, so I have to change the schedule for tomorrow to free up an hour first thing for me to pull it back down, and try another seal. Meanwhile, my end of month work isn't getting done, or customer follow ups on proposals I have in, or new proposal work I have to do. Not to mention the bush hog work I have lined up for the PT this week; which is supposed to be done before Friday.

Its a big problem, and I don't know what to do.

Is there a machine you might be able to rent that has similar capabilities in your area? Or at least until you can figure out your PT troubles? Or is this not cost effective? Just a thought.

 

[J_J]

I know you said that you need the machine, but I think I would rent a tractor with bush hog, and try to keep on schedule. Let your customers know that you are having trouble. On the part that is leaking, I would Fedex that part to PT, on a rush order. They might be the only people that are familiar with that part, or, order a new unit, or what ever is leaking , rather than fixing it over and over . Is that the brake tender unit you are talking about? It might be something other than the o-rings.

 

[toy]

The problem is, I can't figure out why Im having so many unrelated failures. Blown hydraulic hoses, overheating, elictrical. Right now its leaking oil again. We just fixed a hose, I had just replaced the fitting on the accumulator asmbly, just before that. Today , had to send it and my crew leader home with it, it was pouring hyd fluid out of the valve with the spring in it, again;... all over a customers driveway.
He replaced th eo-ring again, I just went out to load it up for tomorrow, and its pouring fluid out again from the same box. I dont have time now to pull it back down, so I have to change the schedule for tomorrow to free up an hour first thing for me to pull it back down, and try another seal. Meanwhile, my end of month work isn't getting done, or customer follow ups on proposals I have in, or new proposal work I have to do. Not to mention the bush hog work I have lined up for the PT this week; which is supposed to be done before Friday.

Its a big problem, and I don't know what to do.

I know that you have probably done all of this , but have you checked the surfaces that mate up on the o ring to make sure that there isn't a bur or something that might be causing that part to fail. The valve that you are talking about by any chance wouldn't be a pressure relief valve just a thought since you said that hoses were bursting. Maybe your pressure relief valve is adjusted too high and not letting it open up when it needs too in order to keep from an over pressure situation. Maybe you have a malfunctioning relief valve. If the 1850 is an open center circuit you haven't by any chance for some reason put a closed center valve in or your operator maybe turning the power take off on without anything being attached to it creating a deadhead in the circuit. Another thing you don't by any chance have a kinked return hose that is causing the pressure to stay too high. I hope that maybe all of these maybes maybe a solution to your problem or help you get on track to finding out what the problem is. Another thought you said that you had electrical problems as well , you don't maybe have a silinoid that is bad that operates the flow of a circuit, say like on the brake or the pto. Maybe the valve that the silinoid operates is not opening up, and like jj usually suggests have you put pressure gauges on your system to check the pressures on your pt.I hope you can get it fixed soon so you can be a happy camper with your pt also. If your relief valves is opening and closing a whole lot or something restricting the oil flow other than the restrictions necessary for you to do your work that can cause overheating, but I'm sure there are other things that could cause the overheating and the overheating could cause premature break down of your hoses. Are you sure you are replacing the o ring with the right size o ring?

 

[J_J]

Toy,
You have some good points there. We don't know if he is getting the correct o-rings from PT. If in fact he does have good pressure, it may be the reason that the weaker parts of the system are leaking. If you deadhead anything hydraulic, you will approach max pressure real fast ,but that will only be in that circuit. Do you know what circuit the brake tender is associated with?


Altavista,

Sometimes it is tough to track down problems, and you have to be prepared to make changes. That is why I tried to have 2 or 3 of each piece of equipment I was using. I had even had a spare Dixie Chopper for those instant down times. A lot of times I did repair in the field. I had a spare engine, that I could change out in an hour. My trailer hubs would fail on me, my truck would just quit. One time on a job, I even locked myself out of the back of my box van, and had to get someone to cut the lock off so I could work. I know how you feel about losing jobs and customers because of equipment and employee problems. I gave up on finding good help. Hope you find and fix all your problems.

 

[Bob999]

Do you know what circuit the brake tender is associated with?

I believe that the brake tender is pressurized from the variable displacement pump.

I base that on two things: First that is what I read from the PT diagrams. Second the pressure guage in the circuit shows pressure when the release lever is moved to the operate position AND the tractor is trammed. The PTO circuit and the steering/lift circuit seem to have no effect on the pressure in the brake tender circuit.

 

[J_J]

I believe that the brake tender is pressurized from the variable displacement pump.

I base that on two things: First that is what I read from the PT diagrams. Second the pressure guage in the circuit shows pressure when the release lever is moved to the operate position AND the tractor is trammed. The PTO circuit and the steering/lift circuit seem to have no effect on the pressure in the brake tender circuit.

Now, that probably is true. However, how many times can one operate the brake tender before all pressure is bleed off the accumulator. I am assuming that the accumulator is charged when the engine is started, and holds the fluid under pressure until the brake tender is activated. It probably has a check valve in it to keep the fluid flowing only in one path, and that is through the brake tender, and back to tank. Is there brake action on all four wheels, or just two?

 

[Bob999]

Now, that probably is true. However, how many times can one operate the brake tender before all pressure is bleed off the accumulator. I am assuming that the accumulator is charged when the engine is started, and holds the fluid under pressure until the brake tender is activated. It probably has a check valve in it to keep the fluid flowing only in one path, and that is through the brake tender, and back to tank. Is there brake action on all four wheels, or just two?

In my experience so long as the engine is running and the brake tender is in the operating position the system maintains pressure and the brakes are released. As soon as the engine shuts down the brake tender pressure goes to zero and the brakes are applied. The accumulator is charged after three events--engine running, brake tender lever moved from "brake" to "operate", and tramming is initiated.

However, as I noted in my previous reply, the brake tender is not pressured until the tractor is trammed--even though the engine is running and the brake tender lever is in the operate position the pressure gage shows no pressure until tramming either forward or reverse.

There are brakes on all four wheels.

 

[Rip]

He may be refering to the machined aluminum "shuttle valve" that is unique to and probably made by PT. If so, not related to Brake Tender. Others (Charlie Illif? Sedgewick? others?) have had problems with this item.... search postings past year or so. It is a tricky (to be polite) item!

If I were using for business, this is one case where I would get a complete new unit from PT and keep a spare on the shelf.

Good Luck

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

He may be refering to the machined aluminum "shuttle valve" that is unique to and probably made by PT. If so, not related to Brake Tender. Others (Charlie Iliff? Sedgewick? others?) have had problems with this item.... search postings past year or so. It is a tricky (to be polite) item!

If I were using for business, this is one case where I would get a complete new unit from PT and keep a spare on the shelf.

Good Luck

I've had leak problems only at the tank plates, which I fixed with good gasket glue, one steering hose that the end came off, and a diesel return hose that leaked at a fitting. That's in something over 5 years, but I certainly don't use it as much as Altavista's commercial operation. And, with rare exceptions, I'm the only operator.

 

[J_J]

Bob,

So if the brakes are applied mechanically, perhaps by a spring loaded plate. the purpose of the brake tender is to apply pressure to the brake circuit to relieve spring tension so the shaft will turn. So anytime the engine is not running, the brakes are applied. Is this essentially correct? How do you tow or push this unit? In a normal hydraulic pump /motor circuit, you can turn a valve or change a setting to allow the hydraulic fluid to flow in a loop.

 

[AltavistaLawn]

I talked to terry today. I'm sending the pressure relief valve back to PT for them to overhaul; maybe update with one with dual o-rings. We might get something like a toro dingo (but Ditch Witch model) for most of the landscaping work, and only use the pt for hillside bush hogging, until we phase that out of our operations (probably within the next two years). This way th Pt won't be used much, and when it is, it will be run by me, or my dad. My Dad is getting most of our current bush hogging done now with the JD it has a 6' hog and does good, but just not so good on steep hills.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Billy, out.

 

[Bob999]

Bob,

So if the brakes are applied mechanically, perhaps by a spring loaded plate. the purpose of the brake tender is to apply pressure to the brake circuit to relieve spring tension so the shaft will turn. So anytime the engine is not running, the brakes are applied. Is this essentially correct? How do you tow or push this unit? In a normal hydraulic pump /motor circuit, you can turn a valve or change a setting to allow the hydraulic fluid to flow in a loop.

You are correct--the brakes are applied by springs and the hydraulic pressure--supplied by the engine turning the pump or by the manual brake tender pump--conteracts the springs to allow the wheels to turn.

In normal operation the hydraulic pressure keeps the brakes from being applied and the service brake is hydraulic--just like all other PT units. It is only when hydraulic pressure is lost (either because the engine quit or a hydraulic leak or the brake tender in the stop positon) that the spring acutated brakes are applied.

So--to tow a PT with the brake tender you must do two things--release the brake tender brakes by manually pumping up the brake tender pressure and open the tow valve on the variable displacement pump.

 

[SpringHollow]

In my experience so long as the engine is running and the brake tender is in the operating position the system maintains pressure and the brakes are released. As soon as the engine shuts down the brake tender pressure goes to zero and the brakes are applied. The accumulator is charged after three events--engine running, brake tender lever moved from "brake" to "operate", and tramming is initiated.

However, as I noted in my previous reply, the brake tender is not pressured until the tractor is trammed--even though the engine is running and the brake tender lever is in the operate position the pressure gage shows no pressure until tramming either forward or reverse.

I did not think this was the case with my 1850 so I just went out and checked. If I start my 1850 with no feet on the pedals, not touching the steering wheel, etc., the pressure in the break tender reads zero. Immediately upon moving the lever so it releases the breaks, I see pressure of 1500 - 2000 psi. I can not say that my system is operating properly but that is what I see.

Ken

 

[Bob999]

I did not think this was the case with my 1850 so I just went out and checked. If I start my 1850 with no feet on the pedals, not touching the steering wheel, etc., the pressure in the break tender reads zero. Immediately upon moving the lever so it releases the breaks, I see pressure of 1500 - 2000 psi. I can not say that my system is operating properly but that is what I see.

Ken

Definitely different than what I see. I wonder if the tram adjustment on your machine is properly centered so that the machine does not move unless you depress one of the pedals. If the control were not properly centered then I would expect for the pressure to act as yours does.

 

[woodlandfarms]

My 1850 acts the same as Ksimolo. Start it, and no pressure read on the brake tender. Treddle on my tractor as no fluid and/or no pressure ( press the forward and reverse and it is nothing, and I hear now sound of pressure). Steering is active, but cranky cause the wheels won't turn. Release the brake and get an instant 1500 to 2K pressure reading and treddle is now active.

Now, I think both of our tractors have the Hydraulic treddle, and not the older wire treddle, maybe that is the difference?

Carl

 

[Bob999]

Now, I think both of our tractors have the Hydraulic treddle, and not the older wire treddle, maybe that is the difference?

Carl

That may be the difference. My tractor has the older wire connection between the treadle and the variable displacement pump. If I step on the treadle with the brake tender on brake position the engine loads and there is a strain on the brakes as the tractor has power applied to the axle.

 

[SpringHollow]

It's as Carl says, we both have the hydraulic treadle. If I release the brakes, the PT will just sit there until I hit the pedals.

Ken

 

[AltavistaLawn]

heres the part that I have the most trouble from..leaking. Theres a "piston" inside behind that big spring . it has a white plastic O-Ring, which usually goes bad every 50 to 100 hours. We can usually replace it and be good to go; but not this time. Black rubber o-rings don't even last a few hours.

In th epic u can see the bolt breather on top of the assmbly, this is where fluid seeps out when the o-ring leaks.